List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Hi everyone, for those interested some great links plus the Big Footy Draft, Trade & Free Agency twitter as per below:

 

[brad cooper]

Melican just isn’t AFL standard. Too slow, unathletic and small to play on key forwards. His footy iq leaves a lot to be desired. That late play against gws where he didn’t take the 20m kick to an uncontested heeney is unforgiveable

I not saying Melican will or will not make it, but think of this, who in there right mind at the end of 2009 thought that Ted Richards 26 and Heath Grundy 23 would go onto become at fantastic defensive partnership, both looked terrible at that stage of their careers.

 

[Bandicoot]

Rampe really actually does not turn “...it over as often as not”. The reality is way off this sh*t you’re talking Bandicoot

Sorry, I tend to disagree with you but that's my perspective of Rampe's kicking. We all have our opinions and in this case they are obviously miles apart. So be it!

 

[dosser]

I not saying Melican will or will not make it, but think of this, who in there right mind at the end of 2009 thought that Ted Richards 26 and Heath Grundy 23 would go onto become at fantastic defensive partnership, both looked terrible at that stage of their careers.

Melican currently aged only 24

 

[Millky95]

Melican currently aged only 24

I thought he was 27-28

 

[Kapers]

Yeah this is my one concern with taking an inside mid. We will literally have too many inside mids. It would be nice in theory to have a midfield that boasts names such as Parker*, Heeney**, Mills, Rowbottom, Warner and, for the sake of this discussion, Goater. But it's not realistic. You only need to look at how midfields actually work to know that having those six will never actually function.

Horse typically runs with four inside mids - three who dominate the CBAs and stoppages and a fourth who is usually charged with offering a different look. Every other player who rotates through the midfield does so in very small rotations and doesn't play a major role inside. If Horse doesn't change this set-up - and I don't know why he would since it's been his MO for years now and is pretty common around the competition - then two of those great inside midfield talents I listed won't be seeing many inside minutes at all. And this is before we even consider the names like Gulden, Campbell, Florent and Stephens who we're also banking on adding new dimensions to our midfield.

A smarter choice IMO would be to take a goalkicking mid in this year's draft - or a player with a good forward craft, overhead ability or outside game - with the aim to turn him into a half forward. Kind of what we've done with Heeney thus far in his career. Someone who can still pop up in contested situations and look comfortable in and around stoppages but still do the bulk of their work either delivering inside 50 or creating scoring opportunities inside 50.

Otherwise I just don't think whoever we draft will see much inside midfield time at all.

*This changes a bit if Horse ever pulls the trigger on moving Parker out of the midfield into something of a 50/50 role between the forward line. Can't see this happening.

**It also changes if for whatever reason, Heeney doesn't work out in the midfield. But Horse has put it on the agenda now so I expect he will be in the midfield for the foreseeable future.

Interesting take.

Honestly I have no clue how Heeney is going to fit into the midfielder, but I don't think he be a ball winner, it would be a waste imo.

As you know, I'm big on Zac Taylor, and that's because I don't think we have another mid like him besides Mills. Just a clean 20-30 possessions and a solid kick when necessary.

Rowbottom, Warner, Stephens can be break away mids (Stephens is yet to prove himself) and would benefit having a Taylor around.

Campbell, McInerney, and Gulden should never be inside mids. They're too valuable to the outside game, and even though they have been influential when thrown into the coal face, they are 100x better on the outside.

The only thing about Taylor is I have no reason why we would trade Hewett to being in Taylor as they seem very similar to me.

One thing I do like from Horse last year is that he threw more players intk the midfield when things weren't working. I think next year we will see a 5 main blokes (Mills, Rowbottom, Parker, Kennedy/Warner) but when things arent going our way I think Horse wants the ability to change the midfield and force a different result (McInerney, Gulden, Heeney)

 

[Kapers]

Goater and Taylor seen like opposites to me in terms of inside mids.

Goater has all the elite attributes, height, leap, pace, and a searing kick, but looks like he lacks composure and smarts.

From what I've read, Taylor doesn't have these attributes, but is just a smart footballer. Wins the ball and makes a good decision.

IMO take Taylor, but we might take a punt on Goater knowing we have Mills.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

It's glaringly obvious we need more KPD depth. One or two injuries and we are stuffed down back tall wise and I saw Rampe looking at walking sticks last week when retail opened up.

From an op shop I’m sure

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Melican currently aged only 24

wish he was 34

 

[Superstar swan]

I not saying Melican will or will not make it, but think of this, who in there right mind at the end of 2009 thought that Ted Richards 26 and Heath Grundy 23 would go onto become at fantastic defensive partnership, both looked terrible at that stage of their careers.

100% agree with you on Grundy and Ted but I’m
Struggling really hard to see it in Melican. Grundy and reg started as forwards and learned the defensive game. Melican has been a defender his whole career and has not really looked good at all. I know he’s not the only one to blame, as a lot of players missed gettable opportunities late, but that failed play to heeney against gws cost us the game and a real shot in the finals. An AFL player who canny see that opportunity nor have the guts to at least attempt that kick is an embarrassment

 

[Slingshot Footy]

100% agree with you on Grundy and Ted but I’m
Struggling really hard to see it in Melican. Grundy and reg started as forwards and learned the defensive game. Melican has been a defender his whole career and has not really looked good at all. I know he’s not the only one to blame, as a lot of players missed gettable opportunities late, but that failed play to heeney against gws cost us the game and a real shot in the finals. An AFL player who canny see that opportunity nor have the guts to at least attempt that kick is an embarrassment

The forwards kicked 2.7 in the final quarter so I think it's a bit of a stretch to blame the tall defender for one attacking play at the death. If you want to have a crack at his one on ones against Hogan that's another story, but Jesse was also given premium supply from the Giants mids in the first half and very few players could have put a stop to that.

The most damning thing to consider when assessing Melican is the 52 games played out of 135 since 2016. He's a Reid clone that struggles to stay on the park and it's hampering his capacity to build any sort of form in the seniors.

His last game before he got injured earlier this year he actually had a blinder and then just like Reid didn't have enough time to build form and contribute at the end of the year. Melican hasn't had a lot of opportunities to learn from his mistakes like others have, purely because he hasn't had the same experience.

Is it frustrating that guys like Reid and Melican take so long to get back in form? Absolutely. But that's part of the reason why they're taken so low in the draft in the first place.

Fingers crossed Damian Raper can turn Melican into a durable player for the team.

 

[Superstar swan]

The forwards kicked 2.7 in the final quarter so I think it's a bit of a stretch to blame the tall defender for one attacking play at the death. If you want to have a crack at his one on ones against Hogan that's another story, but Jesse was also given premium supply from the Giants mids in the first half and very few players could have put a stop to that.

The most damning thing to consider when assessing Melican is the 52 games played out of 135 since 2016. He's a Reid clone that struggles to stay on the park and it's hampering his capacity to build any sort of form in the seniors.

His last game before he got injured earlier this year he actually had a blinder and then just like Reid didn't have enough time to build form and contribute at the end of the year. Melican hasn't had a lot of opportunities to learn from his mistakes like others have, purely because he hasn't had the same experience.

Is it frustrating that guys like Reid and Melican take so long to get back in form? Absolutely. But that's part of the reason why they're taken so low in the draft in the first place.

Fingers crossed Damian Raper can turn Melican into a durable player for the team.

He’s not the only one to blame, players missed shots on goal that many were lockable but at least they had the guts to take the shot. Melican refused to pull off a 20m chip to an unmarked heeney 35m straight in front. I would be much less disappointed if he went for the kick and kicked it over his head and we still lost the game. That fact we have a player on the list who doesn’t have the confidence to take that pass to heeney is ridiculous

 

[caesar88]

Interesting take.

Honestly I have no clue how Heeney is going to fit into the midfielder, but I don't think he be a ball winner, it would be a waste imo.

As you know, I'm big on Zac Taylor, and that's because I don't think we have another mid like him besides Mills. Just a clean 20-30 possessions and a solid kick when necessary.

Rowbottom, Warner, Stephens can be break away mids (Stephens is yet to prove himself) and would benefit having a Taylor around.

Campbell, McInerney, and Gulden should never be inside mids. They're too valuable to the outside game, and even though they have been influential when thrown into the coal face, they are 100x better on the outside.

The only thing about Taylor is I have no reason why we would trade Hewett to being in Taylor as they seem very similar to me.

One thing I do like from Horse last year is that he threw more players intk the midfield when things weren't working. I think next year we will see a 5 main blokes (Mills, Rowbottom, Parker, Kennedy/Warner) but when things arent going our way I think Horse wants the ability to change the midfield and force a different result (McInerney, Gulden, Heeney)

I agree with most of this. I'm basing our future midfield less on what I want and more what I think will happen.

For example:

- I don't like Campbell and Gulden on the inside (I don't think McInerney will ever be on the inside, so I don't include him.)
- I don't like Heeney in the mids as much as I like him as a forward.
- I don't like the idea of Parker being in the midfield much longer.
- I don't like Florent's continued safety in the team when his form doesn't warrant it.

But it doesn't matter what I like, it matters what Horse likes. If he likes all five of them in the midfield, as well as Mills, Rowbottom and Warner, then that is a future midfield of eight players, nine if Stephens makes it. It's also a group that has pretty much every possible attribute Horse would want in the midfield - be it hardness, composure, skill, speed, athleticism, flexibility, evasion etc. Good luck to whoever we draft this year, coming in at number 9 at best, 10 at worst, trying to crack that group.

(And I know that logic says we'd draft a first round mid who could come in and make a serious impact and challenge those guys for spots. But if those names above are as good as we/Horse suspect they are, then they will hold their spots, and Goater/Taylor/Warner Jr. etc. would be little more than depth players waiting for an opportunity that might not come.)

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I can see little reason why we would not invest in Constable as an inside mid, His VFL figures suggests he would be better than most others.

He’s just another Ryan Clarke and it’s questionable he’s even that good

 

[brad cooper]

He’s just another Ryan Clarke and it’s questionable he’s even that good

Changed your mind LP1? I seem to recall you saying that we should get him as a Kennedy replacement a few months back.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Changed your mind LP1? I seem to recall you saying that we should get him as a Kennedy replacement a few months back.

I’d take him if there nothing else and we don’t draft a inside mid but I’m just not sure he’s that good. He’s very slow and while speed is not critical in the position you don’t want to be a turtle! Don’t think we’d bother seems a good VFL standard player that’s it

 

[caesar88]

We are keen on Kade Dittmar, a Margaret River boy (my old hood!), plays for East Perth. He's 186cm and 90kg* and plays inside mid. We've had three interviews with him, including meeting with his family, his school teachers and junior coaches. We asked specifically about his willingness to learn and adapt in different roles and positions, and the impression is that we see him as a physically capable but raw talent who we think could add strings to his bow.

I won't pretend to know anything about him as a player really but a few phantom drafts I saw didn't have him going in the first three rounds. Could be eyeing him off for a later pick maybe unless we rate him that highly.

*Not sure about his weight. WAFL site has him listed at 90kg; ESPN has him at 86kg. Either way, for an 18 year old he's a unit.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

We are keen on Kade Dittmar, a Margaret River boy (my old hood!), plays for East Perth. He's 186cm and 90kg* and plays inside mid. We've had three interviews with him, including meeting with his family, his school teachers and junior coaches. We asked specifically about his willingness to learn and adapt in different roles and positions, and the impression is that we see him as a physically capable but raw talent who we think could add strings to his bow.

I won't pretend to know anything about him as a player really but a few phantom drafts I saw didn't have him going in the first three rounds. Could be eyeing him off for a later pick maybe unless we rate him that highly.

*Not sure about his weight. WAFL site has him listed at 90kg; ESPN has him at 86kg. Either way, for an 18 year old he's a unit.

Would be in the mix at the 3rd pick (39). That is the type of player I expected us to sort of want. Tall inside mid which are the prototype nowadays. I still would like a 4th pick though but I'm not sure what we are with list spots, think we only have 3 spots available

 

[Dubai Quacker]

We are keen on Kade Dittmar, a Margaret River boy (my old hood!), plays for East Perth. He's 186cm and 90kg* and plays inside mid. We've had three interviews with him, including meeting with his family, his school teachers and junior coaches. We asked specifically about his willingness to learn and adapt in different roles and positions, and the impression is that we see him as a physically capable but raw talent who we think could add strings to his bow.

I won't pretend to know anything about him as a player really but a few phantom drafts I saw didn't have him going in the first three rounds. Could be eyeing him off for a later pick maybe unless we rate him that highly.

*Not sure about his weight. WAFL site has him listed at 90kg; ESPN has him at 86kg. Either way, for an 18 year old he's a unit.

Kade Dittmar

Kade Dittmar is a “contested beast” who is looking to defy the odds and secure a late call-up.

thewest.com.au

Look for the blonde mullet.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Just liking the fact we realise we need mids and lots of them

 

[brad cooper]

Just liking the fact we realise we need mids and lots of them

How many midfielders do you want? your obsession with recruiting midfielders is getting out of control.

 

[Kapers]

How many midfielders do you want? your obsession with recruiting midfielders is getting out of control.

LPno1 is actually Beveridge's account.

 

[hairy biker]

We are keen on Kade Dittmar, a Margaret River boy (my old hood!),

Gangland central.
Were you in the Cabsavs or Savblancs?

On Dittmar;
The West Australian write up;

Height: 186cm
Weight: 86kg
Position: Midfielder
AFL player comparison: Elliot Yeo (West Coast)
Strengths: Overhead marking, contested ball, scoreboard impact
Question mark: Will previous injury history count against him?
2021 averages: 18.5 disposals, 5.7 tackles, 1.0 goals per game (WAFL colts)

West's footy writer;

The East Perth midfield bull put together a massive year of WAFL colts to earn a State 19s berth and draft combine invite.
Loves the contested stuff and knows how to find the footy, but can also have an impact up forward with his overhead marking and ability to hit the scoreboard.
Missed nearly two full seasons because of stress fractures in his lower back before making his first appearance in 574 days in the opening round.
Finished equal ninth in the Jack Clarke Medal colts fairest-and-best award and broke through for his senior debut in round 19 against Swan Districts, to go with a couple of reserves games.
The son of Port Adelaide SANFL premiership player Mark had a strong finish for the WA under-19s against South Australia in Adelaide, with 19 possessions, seven clearances, seven tackles and a goal in a well-rounded performance.

WA State talent manager;

“I feel like he’s a player who deserves an opportunity at AFL level but given how few will be drafted this year, the opportunity may not come until next year or the year after.
“He’s had so many injuries over the last three years but finally got a pretty good run at it this year.
“Like Angus Sheldrick, he’s just a contested beast and not many kids have that sort of intent for the contest.”

Expected draft range: Later rounds / rookie / undrafted

 

[Kapers]

With our McInerney and Warner selections, Dittmar is guaranteed an AA

 

[caesar88]

Gangland central.
Were you in the Cabsavs or Savblancs?

This was one of your finest ones yet!

(And it was the latter.)

Back on Dittmar, one more write-up from ESPN:

Starring through the midfield and providing both a contrast to the play of Matthew Johnson, Kade Dittmar was the physical bull to complement Johnson's class. There was a liveliness to Dittmar's play where any time he was around the ball he exerted his influence. He won first possession at stoppages, won ground balls around the field, broke tackles, demonstrated good speed and agility with ball in hand and was busy when South Australia had the ball, applying pressure. Dittmar looks like Western Australia's premier two-way midfielder and like Jason Horne-Francis is one of the few midfielders in this pool who can influence games both ways. Dittmar may not be regarded as an early pick but could be a value choice mid-late draft.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

How many midfielders do you want? your obsession with recruiting midfielders is getting out of control.

2 of the 3 picks this year with one being a difference mid. Tall at the other pick ideally a defender