List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals
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- Oct 2, 2016
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Van Rooyen doesn't really make a difference either. We can't bank on him transforming our back 6, most key defenders take a few years before they can hold their own
Grand Uncle Horace
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Hmmn ... looks at Melican record
In Weiterings case even he got dropped a few times to the VFL before he became the player he is today. Does take a while to hit their potential.
Grand Uncle Horace
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... and he is still no world beater.
Millky95
Starchild > You
Made the AA Squad didn't he?
Grand Uncle Horace
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Their judgement is not always great.
Yep, I am just an old punter but I do not rate Weitering highly. A good ordinary player with some hops.
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I think he's sensational considering how many forward entries Carlton gives the opposition. He shoulders a heavy workload and I would be very happy to have him in our team.
Grand Uncle Horace
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Sure. He is a B+ player and would be an asset. But he sticks to his bloke - nothing wrong with that - but does not help and organise team defence.
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your a hard task master, the kid is 23 played 115 of a possible 128 games since being drafted to probably the worst performed team throughout that era.
Grand Uncle Horace
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Possibly!
Truth is maybe I have over reacted v the idiot Blues fans who sell him as the best thing since sliced bread. But watching their games Jones does a better job on the team things. I think Voss will put a deserved dose of salts through him.
Let's say it takes 5 years to have an impact. Could well be less, the likes of Melican, McCartin, Aliir as examples were having an impact for us within 3 (admittedly the former has struggled with injury and consistency since).
We'll hopefully be in the middle of a flag window at that point, why the heck wouldn't we want a 23 (or 21) year old quality KPD starting to have an impact on our list?
Still yet to hear a better, more realistic alternative for a sustained flag run than drafting. I don't know what optimism pills those who just assume we'll pick up a gun, or best 22 mature ager are on, but I'd like some. We haven't recently, despite there being a need, so why pin all our hopes on that. Sure, grab Paddy or some other mature ager, but draft one as well.
We now have depth or developing players (playing seniors) in every other area, it's fairly short sighted to just grab mids because reasons.
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i certainly hope Voss does this so Weitering can quite rightly tell him to * off, then request a trade to Sydney.
premiers 2023
the hypnotoad
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yes, i'd suggest that might be colouring your view
i reckon weitering is a dead-set star, he's a considerably bigger physical presence than his first season, and in that dreadful team he'd be under constant pressure
would love him at sydney, he'd make a huge difference ... way too expensive though
Membling
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Looking at list and KPD will definitely be required. I like Dean late and JVR at first for long term pick.
Next year we will likely get King in so no need to target more rucks this draft.
HBF and small backs have always come from player we drafted as mids or HFF.
Would not mind draft of JVR/Long/Sheldrick with late picks of Dean/Gorringe
Would hit most list needs
Next year we will likely get King in so no need to target more rucks this draft.
HBF and small backs have always come from player we drafted as mids or HFF.
Would not mind draft of JVR/Long/Sheldrick with late picks of Dean/Gorringe
Would hit most list needs
caesar88
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- Apr 26, 2016
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No, we need more than one. Even if we were fortunate enough to get a Moore or Barrass next year and get 3-4 elite years out of them, we'd need a young defender coming up under them. Or do you want us to be in the exact same position we're currently in?
You only need two key defenders in the team at any given time. We already have McCartin so that leaves bringing in one more. Having 3 key defenders in the side at the same time makes a team too tall down back.
caesar88
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Well for starters I'm not entirely sure having 3 key defenders in the team is a bad thing. What do you think Melbourne had with May, Lever and Petty?
But I'm not even talking about just in the 22. We actually need a decent young key defender developing on the list under McCartin & Moore/Barrass/other* so that they are ready to slot in and contribute in defence. Otherwise in 3-4 years we're in the exact same position we're currently in: McCartin and no one else.
* It's also just incredibly short-sighted to say we shouldn't draft a key defender because we need to trade for one. That's great in theory, but how's our recent trading history going? What if we can't entice a Moore or a Barrass type to the club? What if we get that big-name recruit and he gets injured, like Lever did in his first two seasons at Melbourne? You've got to have options. Right now we're as close to barren as you can get when it comes to key defenders. We can't afford the luxury of being fussy about how we acquire any key defender talents.
I agree with Caesar on this. We should draft one this year if at all possible who will be starting to hit peak about 2025 or 6 season. Earlier would be bonus but not likely.
Rampe is going to struggle a lot mote as a KPD this year and Melican is marginal at best. It would have been great to trade one in but it wasn't to be this year. Hopefully next. That person bridges the gap, as Hickey has in the ruck.
Three KPD's at different stages would be good.
Maximumlnsanity
All Australian
This is not the year to draft a KPD. Gibcus is great and all that but JVR has played like half a season at the position and Bazzo has just sorta been mediocre. The fact that there's only 3 of note in this draft means JVR and Bazzo are gonna be reached for too. We've gotta hold out for 2022, that draft is filled to the brim with tall blokes
Kapers
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Yes and no. Of course we should draft a KPD, but I don't want to reach just so we can have a KPD on our list. If we give up on a mid at Pick 18 to get a defender that was going to go at 25, just so we can have KPD, well I think that's stupid.
I also feel people are overstating how much a drafted defender will help. Petty took 3 years, Moore similar, Barras took 4, and Weitering, who was pick 1, took 2 years imo. We should've drafted a KPD 5 years ago, but we haven't, so now we NEED to trade one in if we want to capitalise on the talent on our list.
I would like Bazzo personally, but I also don't expect him to be a player until 21.
Gibcus seems to be rocketing up the charts. We certainly won't get him at 16(18). Seems likely now to go about 6 or 7. That would absorb our top 3 picks if we could find someone to swap with. Won't happen.
The judgement call will be whether JVR or Bazzo (or ??) can reach the standard with the extra year of development or whether we are better off waiting.
Glad it's Kinnear and Simon making that call and not me, but if it was me, I'd rather roll the dice and make a mistake than do nothing.
caesar88
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We didn't really draft any highly rated junior defenders five years ago, as I think we were backing our system of finding late draft gems/rookies/delisted players and turning them into star defenders. But for various reasons, none of Talia, Maibaum, Pink and Melican have been able to make it or definitively keep their place in the team.
But just because we didn't do it then, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it now. Otherwise we're just repeating the same mistakes. We are currently relying on an ambitious trade coup to fix our defender woes. Not drafting one now will mean that down the road we will have to rely on a second ambitious trade coup to fix our defender woes we will have once the current trade target (be it Moore, Barrass or someone else) retires. Exactly how many miraculous big-name defender deals do we think we're gonna be capable of?
As for your point about reaching for a defender instead of taking a mid, as I've said all along, whoever we draft as a mid this year, I'm incredibly dubious about the opportunities they will get in our team. So though a young mid may be rated better than any key defender we'd draft, I think the key defender would actually have the greater chance at making it with us and contributing to a flag.
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