List Mgmt. 2021 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

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Bloods86

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Might find we just go small it’s safer and we can pick a tall next year after seeing these kids more
Or if there's a tall we think has played against decent oppo, we'd still be interested as Kinnear suggests. In fact, could be rated higher if the smalls available haven't played, or haven't played much. All of JVR, Bazzo, Alleer, Dean at least have played (4/4 of the rated potential KPDs available at our picks), which could put them over the top of a bunch of Vic mids (like Sinn), if they're deemed to have played enough and performed against enough decent oppo.
 
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Advent Calendar Draft Day 21:

#21 Errol Gulden


Pick #32 from 2020 draft... :laughv1: :tongueoutv1:🎉 Rising Star nominee & 2 Brownlow votes on debut for the Swans. The kid goes alright:winkv1: Plays beyond his years and as Cal Twomey wrote - 'death by a thousand kicks' for opposition teams. Knows where to go and where to kick it and has been a joy to watch this year.
 
Completely uninformed opinion here but I'd be keen to get Chesser if possible. Haven't seen him play this year but what I saw in previous years he seemed to just have that footy instinct of knowing when to go and when to hold to find targets by hand and foot. This highlights package seems to suggest that footy IQ is still a hallmark of his game (though I have to laugh at AFL.com inexplicably including an out on the full kick in a highlights reel.)




That being said, I find this highlights package significantly more impressive. But there is obviously a reason Taylor is almost universally regarded as the lesser of the two, though what that reason is still remains lost on me.




However I am now reminded of why I wanted Sonsie the most of this year's draft a year ago. He is just all class.

 
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Kapers

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Completely uninformed opinion here but I'd be keen to get Chesser if possible. Haven't seen him play this year but what I saw in previous years he seemed to just have that footy instinct of knowing when to go and when to hold to find targets by hand and foot. This highlights package seems to suggest that footy IQ is still a hallmark of his game (though I have to laugh at AFL.com inexplicably including an out on the full kick in a highlights reel.)




That being said, I find this highlights package significantly more impressive. But there is obviously a reason Taylor is almost universally regarded as the lesser of the two, though what that reason is still remains lost on me.




However I am now reminded of why I wanted Sonsie the most of this year's draft a year ago. He is just all class.


I'm big into Taylor, the only issue being that I think his upside is basically as good as Hewett. His highlights are 'just' outside work and beautiful kicks. Now that is some amazing highlights, but he doesn't have that point of difference that I THINK we are looking for. Tbf, I think he's going to be great and I would pick him, but I don't think we'll be picking him up.

Sonsie does look to have that point of difference, but I don't quite know how he'll fit into the side, but you've already talked about that.

All in all it'll be interesting to see who we pick up.
 
I'm big into Taylor, the only issue being that I think his upside is basically as good as Hewett. His highlights are 'just' outside work and beautiful kicks. Now that is some amazing highlights, but he doesn't have that point of difference that I THINK we are looking for. Tbf, I think he's going to be great and I would pick him, but I don't think we'll be picking him up.

Sonsie does look to have that point of difference, but I don't quite know how he'll fit into the side, but you've already talked about that.

All in all it'll be interesting to see who we pick up.

You had me at Hewett.
 
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Completely uninformed opinion here but I'd be keen to get Chesser if possible. Haven't seen him play this year but what I saw in previous years he seemed to just have that footy instinct of knowing when to go and when to hold to find targets by hand and foot. This highlights package seems to suggest that footy IQ is still a hallmark of his game (though I have to laugh at AFL.com inexplicably including an out on the full kick in a highlights reel.)




That being said, I find this highlights package significantly more impressive. But there is obviously a reason Taylor is almost universally regarded as the lesser of the two, though what that reason is still remains lost on me.




However I am now reminded of why I wanted Sonsie the most of this year's draft a year ago. He is just all class.



I wouldn't be against getting Chesser at all. My only concern with Taylor, and admittedly it is a minor concern but he is born in January meaning he is one of the oldest in the draft, so he probably has less improvement in him than someone born July or later.

Also probably completely different but I see Chesser and I am reminded a bit of McInerney, and that is definitely a compliment.
 
I wouldn't be against getting Chesser at all. My only concern with Taylor, and admittedly it is a minor concern but he is born in January meaning he is one of the oldest in the draft, so he probably has less improvement in him than someone born July or later.

Looks a little vanilla nothing wrong with that but think we should be aiming a fraction higher.

That said second rounder all for it
 
I wouldn't be against getting Chesser at all. My only concern with Taylor, and admittedly it is a minor concern but he is born in January meaning he is one of the oldest in the draft, so he probably has less improvement in him than someone born July or later.

Also probably completely different but I see Chesser and I am reminded a bit of McInerney, and that is definitely a compliment.

Well luckily ability isn't determined by months spent in the womb then...
 
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I'm big into Taylor, the only issue being that I think his upside is basically as good as Hewett. His highlights are 'just' outside work and beautiful kicks. Now that is some amazing highlights, but he doesn't have that point of difference that I THINK we are looking for. Tbf, I think he's going to be great and I would pick him, but I don't think we'll be picking him up.
Taylor was a guy who was getting better as the season went on.
Overall averaged 26 disposals in the NAB league, last 3 games averaged 34 possies and in his last game had 37 disposals and 11 clearances.
Given the way he uses it he is just a player you want with the ball and for me his kicking is that point of difference.

Albeit based only on highlights and reading about him he just seems like a guy who will make it.

I've yet to see a knock on him other than he is often referred to as a small(er) midfielder.
He's 180cm and 74 kg and as as caesar88 has previously indicated not sure that should be considered 'undersized'.
Sure lots of ~190ish midfielders in this draft, but for me sizzle over size and quality over 'quantity'.

I'm definitely in the happy if we pick him camp.
 
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A few of us on here have pondered Zac Taylor's relatively low rating by these draft-watchers. And the more I think about it and sift through the recent drafts, the more I think that background and circumstance plays too great a role in how the prospects are rated pre-draft and selected during it. I've already spoken about the APS system and the advantage that kids who hail from it have when it comes to getting drafted (greater exposure, connection to recruiters etc.)
Unsurprisingly, the clubs from the TAC Cup/NAB League with the greatest number of APS-based players - Oakleigh Chargers & Sandringham Dragons - have dominated recent drafts. Those two clubs alone account for 38% of all Victorian players taken in the last three national drafts. It's not a monopoly, but it sure is a stronghold. And the phantom drafts I think often reflect that.

So a player from Calder Cannons (like Taylor) for example, or the Eastern Ranges (who have only had one player taken in the last three national drafts) probably has to work twice as hard and make significant improvement quickly to overcome the head-start in terms of exposure and resources that the kids who came through the APS pathway benefitted from.

They will still get drafted - Calder have a pretty healthy representation of 10 players taken in the last 3 years, up against Oakleigh's 23 and Sandringham's 18, but where those two had 12 and 9 players taken within the top 25, Calder's highest-picked player was taken at pick 26.

At the risk of sounding like a revolutionary hippie, there is definitely a slant towards the privileged few. It is why:

- I don't pay attention to the order of phantom drafts or anything really, because they are really just a reflection of that privilege and not necessarily a reflection of the true talent that exists out there.

- I don't panic when the Swans pop up with a name nobody's heard of on draft night, because I reckon our recruiters are smart enough to know that that privilege exists, to not get sucked into it, and that looking beyond it can pay off. Of every current Swans player we've drafted, only one came from the APS pathway.

I reckon Taylor fits the bill perfectly of someone our recruiters would rate much higher than other draft-watchers do.
 

Kiama Chris

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I asked Knightmare tonight and he said that the comparison between Chesser and McInerney is a good one. The question is, for as good as McInerney is, do we want another of him?
As different as Gulden and Campbell are you can see them even this year playing a similar role - wing/half forward.
Two McInerneys could play the same role as each other or one can play HBF and the other on the wing.
If he's best available at the pick - take him.
 
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As different as Gulden and Campbell are you can see them even this year playing a similar role - wing/half forward.
Two McInerneys could play the same role as each other or one can play HBF and the other on the wing.
If he's best available at the pick - take him.

We took McInerney with pick 44 in the 2018 draft but in hindsight if we took him with pick 18 it would still be considered a very good deal.

I am less certain about JVR than I was a few weeks ago, but I love the look of one of Chesser, Taylor or Sonsie with pick 18. I suspect at least 2 of them will be available by our pick.
 
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I asked Knightmare tonight and he said that the comparison between Chesser and McInerney is a good one. The question is, for as good as McInerney is, do we want another of him?

If we could say with certainty that he was going to turn out talent-wise like McInerney then yes.

It’s no secret that the club is seeking as many players that are great kicks and can play across the 3 main lines of attack (half back flank, wing and half forward flank) to give the team as much flexibility as possible.
 

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I'm curious as to why you say our pick 16 will become 19. We are all aware of the Daicos/Darcy nominations taking us to 18. Where is the pick that is going to take us down to 19. I'm not aware of any other father/son selections likely to take place before 18.

It’s irrelevant, pick 16 is still pick 16 of the available players to us.

This infatuation on here with picks moving down is behind ridiculous as it is meaningless.



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It’s irrelevant, pick 16 is still pick 16 of the available players to us.

This infatuation on here with picks moving down is behind ridiculous as it is meaningless.



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Well it matters in the sense that every draft expert who ranks the players does a top 20 or top 30 players. They don't take into account players who are available to us and players that are not so when looking at draft rankings in real terms we need to be looking at players who will be around the 18 mark. We may have pick 16 but in terms of draft rankings we need to consider the fact we actually have pick 18.
 

Kiama Chris

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We took McInerney with pick 44 in the 2018 draft but in hindsight if we took him with pick 18 it would still be considered a very good deal.

I am less certain about JVR than I was a few weeks ago, but I love the look of one of Chesser, Taylor or Sonsie with pick 18. I suspect at least 2 of them will be available by our pick.
I think the conundrum with JVR or Bazzo is do we wait for someone who may be better at an equivalent point in time ie one year later or back our system to have them further ahead by next year's draft?
I'm in favour of the latter approach ie bird in hand vs two in bush.
No idea which of those two (or a bolter) might be better but back our team in to choose wisely.
As for the other players - the ones whose highlights I like best are unlikely to be available at our pick 16 (18).
Hope we can pick up Anderson (?) as a Cat B rookie. Got a bit of size.
Wait and see.
 
Well it matters in the sense that every draft expert who ranks the players does a top 20 or top 30 players. They don't take into account players who are available to us and players that are not so when looking at draft rankings in real terms we need to be looking at players who will be around the 18 mark. We may have pick 16 but in terms of draft rankings we need to consider the fact we actually have pick 18.

Yeah the more I think of it we can get a defender at our next pick. Take the best mid or small type. I wouldn't take Taylor personally at 18 (at least), seems very vanilla
 
Feb 28, 2007
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I think the conundrum with JVR or Bazzo is do we wait for someone who may be better at an equivalent point in time ie one year later or back our system to have them further ahead by next year's draft?
I'm in favour of the latter approach ie bird in hand vs two in bush.
No idea which of those two (or a bolter) might be better but back our team in to choose wisely.
As for the other players - the ones whose highlights I like best are unlikely to be available at our pick 16 (18).
Hope we can pick up Anderson (?) as a Cat B rookie. Got a bit of size.
Wait and see.

The worrying thing about both JVR and Bazzo is that they haven't really played anyone. I mean who are the Sout Australian Key Forwards in 2021, certainly not anyone of note. They may each be really good but it would have been nice to see them play against the best U18 key forwards.
 
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Yeah the more I think of it we can get a defender at our next pick. Take the best mid or small type. I wouldn't take Taylor personally at 18 (at least), seems very vanilla

Nothing too wrong with vanilla. I like Taylor as he seems to be a good kick and decision maker and those are two very underrated skills. Someone like Goater may be strong, powerful and able to break tackles but if his kicking is somewhat suspect what is the point.
 
Nothing too wrong with vanilla. I like Taylor as he seems to be a good kick and decision maker and those are two very underrated skills. Someone like Goater may be strong, powerful and able to break tackles but if his kicking is somewhat suspect what is the point.

He just seems "okay" and there is nothing wrong with that but just feel there are talents with a lot more scope. Not on my list at all.
 
Pick 18 we aren't expecting a star. A solid contributor will be enough.

When Port had it they drafted Xavier Duursma (same draft as Butters only reason I remember it). I'd want a bit more than vanilla. No issue with Taylor in the second round.
 
Feb 28, 2007
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When Port had it they drafted Xavier Duursma (same draft as Butters only reason I remember it). I'd want a bit more than vanilla. No issue with Taylor in the second round.

Also plenty of really good inside mids look vanilla on the surface. If he is able to comfortably average over 30 disposals, able to get 11 clearances in games and is a good kick and decision maker then maybe he isn't as vanilla as many people think.
 
Also plenty of really good inside mids look vanilla on the surface. If he is able to comfortably average over 30 disposals, able to get 11 clearances in games and is a good kick and decision maker then maybe he isn't as vanilla as many people think.

Even at 18 I feel it's not worth taking him, Sonsie if there seems a lot better prospect.
 
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