List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[Coach_Required]

Had this arguement a few pages back.
I'd prefer next years crop over this years.
Rather be selecting on the years performance not from 2yrs back with this crop.
Rather just go with 4 picks this year and 5+ next year.

That's my way of thinking too, I dont take it personally if people disagree though, thats what forums are for. I'm just a tad uncomfortable that we have our strongest draft hand in years and it appears a lot of it appears to be guess work or words to that effect of it being unknown, but the narrative is we should just do it because everyone else is in the same boat.

If we had 3 1st round picks next year and we are still unsure of the kids, we could still land someone like Ben King if he looks to be coming back to Victoria and still have picks available with an extra year to look at the next crop of young players.

Having pick 11(13) & 28(30) arent crap picks either so it still enables us to have a couple of kids come in so the argument of not replenishing our list isnt quite true.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Had this arguement a few pages back.
I'd prefer next years crop over this years.
Rather be selecting on the years performance not from 2yrs back with this crop.
Rather just go with 4 picks this year and 5+ next year.

The problem is the big unknown of where to that 1st rounder pick comes in next year. The reverse of the Pies could happen. Not sure you are suggesting pick 7 as well, but 15 would put the risk on the other team I guess. Say Freo with the expectation they finish mid table, but they end up making the 4.
I also like the idea of pushing a pick into next year too, but prefer it to be one of the 20s. It would make the delisting next year to make room interesting!

 

[RobsJourney]

Outside the box and I know the club wouldn't do it because we already on traded our first round pick last year but I'd be tempted to on trade both our 1st rounders to other clubs for next year 1st rounders. I'd then ask the bombers if they want picks 26 & 27 for their pick 11.

It would leave us with 3 first rounders next year, pick 11 and 28 this year plus our pick 83 would push up quite a far way after all the father sons and passes. Who knows we could end up with a slider. It would also give us 2 list spots free for any free agents if needed.

Seems like there is a lot of guess work being done on a lot of players past the early stages and I'm losing confidence due to lack of vision and matches. We could still grab a few kids this season and then have 3 1st rounders next year and 2 second rounders.

Eh, last year people knew "seemingly" very little and yet most of the top picks ended up reflecting where they were drafted, eg. the Bombers' draftees.

We have a window open now but we also need to start the mini rebuild now, it's a good spot to be in.

Take the punt, use our best pick to hopefully add some icing to our best 22 and the rest will be part of our next push, if not also trying to break into the best 22 now/soon. There's enough exposure to get some guns, no worries.

 

[tigerdan]

Had this arguement a few pages back.
I'd prefer next years crop over this years.
Rather be selecting on the years performance not from 2yrs back with this crop.
Rather just go with 4 picks this year and 5+ next year.

I agree.

I actually would be ok with trading our second 1st rounder (15) for next year's first from someone like the Bummers, Carlton or Saints. They all have shit draft hands and would have to pay overs if they really want it. I think live trading really sets us up to position ourselves well for the 2022 draft.

I might be wrong but I see this year as the year where a gun could be picked late simply through not getting a chance to show their wares. Next year won't have covid restrictions and you'd think the recruiters will have an accurate dial on the players. If that's the case a flush draft hand next year is even better than a flush draft hand this year.

 

[sregit]

Eh, last year people knew "seemingly" very little and yet most of the top picks ended up reflecting where they were drafted, eg. the Bombers' draftees.

We have a window open now but we also need to start the mini rebuild now, it's a good spot to be in.

Take the punt, use our best pick to hopefully add some icing to our best 22 and the rest will be part of our next push, if not also trying to break into the best 22 now/soon. There's enough exposure to get some guns, no worries.

Have to Agee with you. Why wait? I’d even trade our F1 to help get GWS or GCS early pick. Our F1 is currently viewed as a pick at approximate value of ten. If we make finals it’s value will be 12+. Use it now to get the best available. Start developing these kids now. I’d rather 3 gun picks than 5. Trade second rounders into next year or use them to upgrade this year. Should a tall we like falls through then use a second, else three best mids

Our 2023 draft pick could be used next year if necessary.

 

[Obelix]

Outside the box and I know the club wouldn't do it because we already on traded our first round pick last year but I'd be tempted to on trade both our 1st rounders to other clubs for next year 1st rounders. I'd then ask the bombers if they want picks 26 & 27 for their pick 11.

It would leave us with 3 first rounders next year, pick 11 and 28 this year plus our pick 83 would push up quite a far way after all the father sons and passes. Who knows we could end up with a slider. It would also give us 2 list spots free for any free agents if needed.

Seems like there is a lot of guess work being done on a lot of players past the early stages and I'm losing confidence due to lack of vision and matches. We could still grab a few kids this season and then have 3 1st rounders next year and 2 second rounders.

Interesting thought. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trading into next year's draft but given how deep and even the top 30 apparently are this year, I'd much rather use picks 26 & 27 at the draft than trade them away. And I'd absolutely want to use pick 7 this year as it's our first top 10 pick in many years.

Pick 15 on the other hand, that's a different story. I'd let clubs know that it might be available for the right price on the night of the draft. If a kid we really want happens to slide down to that pick then we should use it this year. But if we think that we can get a player of a similar quality at pick 26/27, then I'd be happy to trade it for a future first rounder (especially if our recruiters think next year's draft is shaping up to be pretty strong - particularly for talls).

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I agree.

I actually would be ok with trading our second 1st rounder (15) for next year's first from someone like the Bummers, Carlton or Saints. They all have sh*t draft hands and would have to pay overs if they really want it. I think live trading really sets us up to position ourselves well for the 2022 draft.

I might be wrong but I see this year as the year where a gun could be picked late simply through not getting a chance to show their wares. Next year won't have covid restrictions and you'd think the recruiters will have an accurate dial on the players. If that's the case a flush draft hand next year is even better than a flush draft hand this year.

Exactly.
In a way i'd rather trade out both our 1sts for future picks and just go with picks 26/27 & 28 this year.

 

[Profop]

I would have thought trading into next years draft is inherently risky (more-so than normal). They haven't played many games at all to allow us to see how the group is tracking when compared to previous players at a similar age (pretty sure that sort of data analysis is the bedrock of current drafting). Sure next year they should get to play more games than this years cohort but that's no guarantee that as a group they will be better than this years.

There is less of an ability to compare next years crop to previous draft classes to see if on the whole the depth is strong or the quality of the top end talent is there.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Trading into next years first round is a great idea - if we can get the right deal. Trade pick 15 to a team that will miss the 8 - yes please sign me up. Can get a top end KPF next year (if the pundits are right)

But without that win for us then no way.

This year, if we pick 5 mids and 3 become B+/A grade then we have the core of a top line midfield for a decade. Add to the younger guys we already have and we fill in around them for another period of contention. Our position this year is so strong we should only move for a sack full of gold. Hopefully that comes and we get a top 10 pick next year and walk away 2021 & 2022 with a complete rebuild of quality for a decade. But we'll see. Is anyone that desperate?

 

[tigerdan]

Exactly.
In a way i'd rather trade out both our 1sts for future picks and just go with picks 26/27 & 28 this year.

I think we have to get players on the development conveyor belt this year because we already had a skinny draft last year. Plus trading out pick 7 is too speculative, more risk of the swapped pick being worse. 15 is a bit different because more chance of it becoming better.

Unless it's a fantastic deal I'd only trade pick 15.

Plus death riding some schmucks all season long is fun, even tbough geelong didnt cooperate and spoon for us.

 

[Bird Man]

Trading into next years first round is a great idea - if we can get the right deal. Trade pick 15 to a team that will miss the 8 - yes please sign me up. Can get a top end KPF next year (if the pundits are right)

But without that win for us then no way.

This year, if we pick 5 mids and 3 become B+/A grade then we have the core of a top line midfield for a decade. Add to the younger guys we already have and we fill in around them for another period of contention. Our position this year is so strong we should only move for a sack full of gold. Hopefully that comes and we get a top 10 pick next year and walk away 2021 & 2022 with a complete rebuild of quality for a decade. But we'll see. Is anyone that desperate?

Oh yeah a team that "won't make the 8" will trade their future first easy for 15 ... That would be the dumbest move a club could make considering that they are rebuilding as well. Tigers would need to trade it to a team that thinks that their abouts next year for finals. GWS got super LUCKY with the pies and no one would have thought the drop of would be that huge. Its a gamble at best as Crows, North, Pies, Hawks, Freo, Blues, GC would not trade a future first for 15 and they are the clubs who would most likely finish low in the season.

Journo's say that clubs don't want to trade into next year due to the 'unkown' factor and will only trade if they have to to make the right deal.

 

[Bird Man]

Knightmare Would it be wise to trade into next years draft given the covid years?

Some here are saying trade both 7 and 15 for future picks

 

[Mr Magic]

I would have thought trading into next years draft is inherently risky (more-so than normal). They haven't played many games at all to allow us to see how the group is tracking when compared to previous players at a similar age (pretty sure that sort of data analysis is the bedrock of current drafting). Sure next year they should get to play more games than this years cohort but that's no guarantee that as a group they will be better than this years.

There is less of an ability to compare next years crop to previous draft classes to see if on the whole the depth is strong or the quality of the top end talent is there.

I think next years draft is risky as hell.

One we should place higher ladder so better prospects will be out of our reach, especially if not as deep which is probable with less info as well, and less other form makes it very hard to pluck diamonds as well.

In fact a diamond at 45 might be 80 because there is no form at all apart from someone(scout) with inner, inner info no one else has

In fact next year will be a strange draft because some will think they prospects totally off the radar no one knows about then there will be others avoiding late second round , third round, fourth round anyway because they do not know really what they are bidding on to get a great deal of confidence on at all

 

[_RT_]

So for those thinking about moving into the 2022 draft. The TAC Cup and National Champs will revert back to U16s & U18's next year rather than the U17 & U19 format use this year.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Oh yeah a team that "won't make the 8" will trade their future first easy for 15 ... That would be the dumbest move a club could make considering that they are rebuilding as well. Tigers would need to trade it to a team that thinks that their abouts next year for finals. GWS got super LUCKY with the pies and no one would have thought the drop of would be that huge. Its a gamble at best as Crows, North, Pies, Hawks, Freo, Blues, GC would not trade a future first for 15 and they are the clubs who would most likely finish low in the season.

Journo's say that clubs don't want to trade into next year due to the 'unkown' factor and will only trade if they have to to make the right deal.

That's my point. Stay with what we have unless a team is willing to give us a great deal. Maybe the Bombers or Blues will reckon they will be top 4 teams with new coaches. But it's unlikely.

Only do the trade if we reckon we have a great shot at a top 10 pick next year.

 

[YeOldTiger]

So for those thinking about moving into the 2022 draft. The TAC Cup and National Champs will revert back to U16s & U18's next year rather than the U17 & U19 format use this year.

I reckon that sucks. Why not just leave it ? That extra year, which in this case has occurred out of necessity, is a blessing in disguise. Remember all the studies and talk about the benefit to draftees with an extra year of physical/mental/football development by entering the league at 19. Particularly for some, the chance to play against bigger bodies in their final year. So many kids come on in that year between 18-19. Better prepared for the rigours and intensity of an AFL lifestyle.

Thirds always used to be U/19s

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I reckon that sucks. Why not just leave it ? That extra year, which in this case has occurred out of necessity, is a blessing in disguise. Remember all the studies and talk about the benefit to draftees with an extra year of physical/mental/football development by entering the league at 19. Particularly for some, the chance to play against bigger bodies in their final year. So many kids come on in that year between 18-19. Better prepared for the rigours and intensity of an AFL lifestyle.

Thirds always used to be U/19s

Bit like all those years ago the AFL had the chance to make the Anzac day game the GF replay.

 

[Roksman]

We've already traded out of the first round last year, I'd be very disappointed if we delay getting more young talent again by trading out again.

- A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare Would it be wise to trade into next years draft given the covid years?

Some here are saying trade both 7 and 15 for future picks

I wouldn't specifically on the basis over these past two seasons being COVID impacted move into next year's draft.

You have to remember next year's prospects have basically missed two years of development also. Who is to say there won't be more time missed next year?

For a very quick feel, this year is good for midfielders and you can get some angle flankers, though KPPs aren't great and unless you pick the right one, you'll be overpaying this year.

If you need KPPs, there should be more good ones available next year.

If I felt I could get someone who represents solid value at 7 and 15 respectively eg. Josh Ward/Neil Erasmus I'd love at 7 if I were Richmond and at 15 you'd want some value too, or maybe moving down and/or into next years draft may be a better bet.

My view this year is there is value in the 20-40 range, so if there isn't someone representing outstanding value at a particular pick I hold, or a notable slider, I'd more than happily shift back down the order and work my way into a sweet spot if I can, and if moving up in next year's draft can be done at the same time, that would be a great move I feel.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Exactly.
In a way i'd rather trade out both our 1sts for future picks and just go with picks 26/27 & 28 this year.

I would actually be open to trading both #7 & #15 this year and just go to the draft with 26/27/28

If Pies see a player they want at pick #7 and are hppy to hand over their F1 - Just do it same goes for Hawks /Crows/Freo

 

[Toadvine]

I actually think it's a good year to have 5 picks.

The more rolls of the dice you have the more chance you have that a player is going to hit.

Some clubs who only have 2 picks in the top 50 could potentially land no one and have an entire years draft class wiped out in 2 years.

 

[beema limapep]

Agree, it’s a crap year to have 5 picks in top 30 because of the lack of exposed form.
There will be big bargains in the 40’s and 50’s and more busts than usual in top 30 picked.
That is why we have tried to trade up into top 5 or so.

Sounds like we should trade 7,15,26,27,28 for 45, 47, 56, 57 and 58.

 

[beema limapep]

Whoever we draft, I just hope they dont have the loyalty qualities of CCJ.

 

[Lacustrus]

Whoever we draft, I just hope they dont have the loyalty qualities of CCJ.

I just hope they never suscribe to Big Footy...

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I would actually be open to trading both #7 & #15 this year and just go to the draft with 26/27/28

If Pies see a player they want at pick #7 and are hppy to hand over their F1 - Just do it same goes for Hawks /Crows/Freo

Freo would be keen.
6/7 & 8 they'd do cartwheels.