List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[richoplzbreed]

Why should we let it go. I think his talents are wasted down back. Alex Rance was the best defender in the last 20 years, hoping that Balta will turn into the next Rance is very optimistic. So half Balta's time will be spent locking down a forward, with a bit of luck he will win his share of contests like Astbury or even Harris Andrews at best. Besides Rance name another attackiing weapon from the backline playing. I can think of none.

At CHF considered the most important position of the ground he has the full scope to use his assets creatively. Poswerful runner, very good in the air, great at ground level and can kick goals from 60 metres. There is a bit of Richo about him. He turns games when he plays ruck and can do things no other ruckman can do. He is a potential weapon that is learning the game, so backline has been good for him. Who knows what he can become.

Stack to me would be wasted up forward because he has the potential to be anything. Midfielder gun in waiting. If he is not fit enough just yet, then ease him into it, which may mean resting forward or playing the swingman like against the Hawks.

Don't be fussed by people on here having no idea. A significant proportion base their knowledge on Supercoach and PlayStation.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Someone like amiss could learn from Riewoldt next year and get valuable confidence in the Magoo's with expectations being only required to play when ready and required. The alternative is to spend one of the picks in the 26 region on a KPF and watch him have a Cleve Hughes type career then. Or even better wait til 2022 to get a quality KPF and send him to the wolves like a Jack Watts as Riewoldt will be gone. News flash Riewoldt is 33 in 2 days which means if by some miracle or sheer desparation he plays on in 2023 he'd be ancient and what KPF's output is any good at that age. Drafting amiss solves the massive dilemma we're gonna have as by 2023 he'd have a years experience and would be 2nd banana to Lynch. We're not desparate for mids, these kids playing 5 games in 2 years will only end up having some teams getting lucky as their pick 20 or 30 plays 200 games while half the kids taken in top 10 scrape to 40 games across 2 or 3 club's.

I think you're hitting unwarranted panic stations here with our key forward situation. So say Jack is done by the end of next season, which is a fair call. Lynch still has a few years, Ryan will be 22, and a developing Colina (never seen him play of course, but I assume as a basketballer, he is mobile).

They don't play like Jack, but Lynch and Ryan could a a good dual tall set up, with another mid-sized forward we pick up in this draft and will have 12 months development by next season start.

 

[tony__montana]

A high end key fwd this draft will be more advanced than Ryan within 12 months. I don’t think people understand how hard it is to find quality key fwds. Ryan is no certainty to forge out an AFL career yet. That’s why people won’t let the Balta thing go and are warming to the idea of taking a key fwd with our first pick. Andrew has a freaky skill set and will be playing afl footy regularly in year 2. I’m not sold on Amiss or any other tall for our first pick personally but Andrew definitely, although it’s probably a moot point as he’ll likely be gone by our pick anyhow.
We can’t wait another year imo, we won’t have another top 10 pick either - the time is now if he’s available..

 

[_RT_]

Someone like amiss could learn from Riewoldt next year and get valuable confidence in the Magoo's with expectations being only required to play when ready and required. The alternative is to spend one of the picks in the 26 region on a KPF and watch him have a Cleve Hughes type career then. Or even better wait til 2022 to get a quality KPF and send him to the wolves like a Jack Watts as Riewoldt will be gone. News flash Riewoldt is 33 in 2 days which means if by some miracle or sheer desparation he plays on in 2023 he'd be ancient and what KPF's output is any good at that age. Drafting amiss solves the massive dilemma we're gonna have as by 2023 he'd have a years experience and would be 2nd banana to Lynch. We're not desparate for mids, these kids playing 5 games in 2 years will only end up having some teams getting lucky as their pick 20 or 30 plays 200 games while half the kids taken in top 10 scrape to 40 games across 2 or 3 club's.

Josh Kennedy is 34 and kicked 41 goals this season

Buddy is 35 in January and kicked 51 goals this season

Hawkins is 33 and kicked 62 this season.

Jack kicked 51 this season and you're suggesting his on his last legs in 2022.

 

[cairo tiger]

get townsend

 

[richoatthedisco]

A high end key fwd this draft

There aren't any.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

There aren't any.

A lot better choices next year.

 

[tony__montana]

There aren't any.

i respect your opinion mate - do you think Andrew could develop into an elite key fwd? I love the skill set he has, agility, spring, contested mark, can take it out in front on the lead. He hasn’t kicked many goals but everything he does screams key fwd potential to me

 

[tony__montana]

A lot better choices next year.

a couple of things. We seem to hear that every year. How many will be tied in with father sons, academies etc?
Let’s say we bounce back into the top 8 or top 5 next year - will the x next best rated tall that will be available to us be better than the best rated tall this year?
I’ve seen a lot of experts talk about the lack of development in this draft crop bc of covid this year and last year, I think next years crop will be even more adversely affected as they’ve missed some absolute critical development years

 

[Charlie Pannam]

I think you're hitting unwarranted panic stations here with our key forward situation. So say Jack is done by the end of next season, which is a fair call. Lynch still has a few years, Ryan will be 22, and a developing Colina (never seen him play of course, but I assume as a basketballer, he is mobile).

They don't play like Jack, but Lynch and Ryan could a a good dual tall set up, with another mid-sized forward we pick up in this draft and will have 12 months development by next season start.

Melbourne won a flag this year without a kpf of note. They had a very good balance of small/medium/3rd talls.
I think that’s important to have a variety of goal kicking options
And not downplaying the need to look at replacements for JR and Lynch in the coming years but as you say let’s not get to carried away with that.

 

[Grrr]

Josh Kennedy is 34 and kicked 41 goals this season

Buddy is 35 in January and kicked 51 goals this season

Hawkins is 33 and kicked 62 this season.

Jack kicked 51 this season and you're suggesting his on his last legs in 2022.

Jack has lost his key asset, the spring and a bit of his power on-on one. That is age. He is still very crafty however and most of his goals this year came from reading the play. Hawkins was absolutely pansed by a 22 year old Sam Taylor like I have never seen him beaten. But when you are the focal point you still get good service. Kennedy was much the same. Buddy had his first good year in a while, but Buddy is like Richo, a supreme athlete so can keep it going longer.

Jack may survive a bit longer, but not as the key forward who gets up to the wing and back to the forward half like he has done the last few years. Needs to play a third tall I think. So we are a forward short, hence the Chol and CCJ development. I'd love to see how Miller goes as a forward, we know he can play back but as we are so short of forward backup it would be good to see him train over summer as both. He has the physical attributes which is half the requirements at least. And it would stop people like me wanting Balta to go forward.... unless it doesn't work out.

 

[Grrr]

Melbourne won a flag this year without a kpf of note. They had a very good balance of small/medium/3rd talls.
I think that’s important to have a variety of goal kicking options
And not downplaying the need to look at replacements for JR and Lynch in the coming years but as you say let’s not get to carried away with that.

True, but Melbourne got a lot of their goals by doing what we did when we won our flags, by transferring the play quickly from the back half to forward line. I think they were no.1 in the comp from goals from that. They also dominated the centre square by virtue of Gawn and Oliver and Petracca, you and I could have kicked a bag playing forward in the last half of the grand final.

We are not that side anymore, well not last year. Jack was enormous in all our finals campaigns, behind Dusty probably our most influential player. With him losing his influence, we are not as good as we were, Lynch is no Jack. So would think finding a new forward will be important.

 

[Noidnadroj]

I think you're hitting unwarranted panic stations here with our key forward situation. So say Jack is done by the end of next season, which is a fair call. Lynch still has a few years, Ryan will be 22, and a developing Colina (never seen him play of course, but I assume as a basketballer, he is mobile).

They don't play like Jack, but Lynch and Ryan could a a good dual tall set up, with another mid-sized forward we pick up in this draft and will have 12 months development by next season start.

I agree with this. Look at Melbourne’s forward line 2-years ago. Ben Brown wasn’t there. Weidemann a disappointment. Fritsch a flaky half forward. Pickett and Jackson not there. McDonald was being shopped around and no-one wanted him…. where on earth were their scores going to come from …???

And the Dogs 3-years ago. Naughton not yet drafted and a CHB. Bruce at the Saints. Weightman not yet drafted. English a string bean ruck/fwd. Ugle-Hagan and Darcy not yet drafted.

Those are the Grand Finalists ….. their respective forward lines looked in real trouble just a couple of years back.


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[Grrr]

I agree with this. Look at Melbourne’s forward line 2-years ago. Ben Brown wasn’t there. Weidemann a disappointment. Fritsch a flaky half forward. Pickett and Jackson not there. McDonald was being shopped around and no-one wanted him…. where on earth were their scores going to come from …???

And the Dogs 3-years ago. Naughton not yet drafted and a CHB. Bruce at the Saints. Weightman not yet drafted. English a string bean ruck/fwd. Ugle-Hagan and Darcy not yet drafted.

Those are the Grand Finalists ….. their respective forward lines looked in real trouble just a couple of years back.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

But they were both young. Where are our young forwards?

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

i respect your opinion mate - do you think Andrew could develop into an elite key fwd? I love the skill set he has, agility, spring, contested mark, can take it out in front on the lead. He hasn’t kicked many goals but everything he does screams key fwd potential to me

We have Biggie who has similar traits.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Melbourne won a flag this year without a kpf of note. They had a very good balance of small/medium/3rd talls.
I think that’s important to have a variety of goal kicking options
And not downplaying the need to look at replacements for JR and Lynch in the coming years but as you say let’s not get to carried away with that.

We won in 17 without a 2nd KP or Ruck.
Better feat than the Dees.

 

[YeOldTiger]

get townsend

Solve our forward problems with one retro rookie pick ! Lol

Mmm and his tackling...

 

[RobsJourney]

We won in 17 without a 2nd KP or Ruck.
Better feat than the Dees.

To carry on from and back up your point, I think Ben Brown is underrated too, so to say he is not a KPF of note is underselling him and making Melbourne as a whole seem better than they actually are. He was pretty darn good in an average North and then a shit North, so it only makes sense he played a decent role in a good side (Dees). Tom McDonald didn't play great on GF day but had a fantastic season, was never a bad player either, just had a down patch. Was amazed he was being let go and they lucked out massively that no one wanted him. Wish we'd grabbed him, would solve some issues as a fill in for Jack till the next "big thing" comes along, and Dees prob wouldn't have won the flag without him as they'd prob never have gotten there, given he was largely the only fit KPF they had for periods of the season.

Dees also happen to have the best ruck in the comp, the two best young inside mids now at peak age, and clearly the best backup kid ruckman who is ahead in his development by a few years compared to normal ruck/forwards.

We went in with, as you said, only 1 forward and 1 ruck. You'd take 2017 Jack over any version of Brown or McDonald, but again that's only 1 forward vs. 2, and as much as we absolutely love Nank and wouldn't trade him for the world, there's no denying Gawn is far superior. Dees certainly had more to work with, is what I'm saying.

Lastly, not meant to be a knock on the Dees or take away from how good they were in 2021 especially in the finals, but the other top sides this year were Port (a step down from their 2020 selves probably), Geelong (nowhere near as good as their 2017 selves), Giants (clearly nowhere near as good as their 2017 version), Lions (are they as good as 2019? I'd argue the same but they were also missing key players toward the end) and the Dogs (pretty darn good but are we talking 2016 good?). In 2017 we had Geelong and Giants at their absolute peak to contend with, as well as Adelaide who smacked everyone that year. You can only play against what's there, I'd just strongly argue that our opponents were at a higher level than what Melbourne had to deal with this year, outside of maybe the Dogs every other side was weaker than they'd been previously, some by a decent amount (Cats, Giants). Do we think Melbourne would have done/looked as good against the 2017 Cats, Giants and Crows, not to mention the Tigers? Who knows, but it's a fair point to consider.

Our feat was special, can't take anything away from it. The fact that we almost backed it up the following year and then did the next year after a torrent of injuries is pretty amazing.

 

[Dr Tigris]

A high end key fwd this draft will be more advanced than Ryan within 12 months. I don’t think people understand how hard it is to find quality key fwds. Ryan is no certainty to forge out an AFL career yet. That’s why people won’t let the Balta thing go and are warming to the idea of taking a key fwd with our first pick. Andrew has a freaky skill set and will be playing afl footy regularly in year 2. I’m not sold on Amiss or any other tall for our first pick personally but Andrew definitely, although it’s probably a moot point as he’ll likely be gone by our pick anyhow.
We can’t wait another year imo, we won’t have another top 10 pick either - the time is now if he’s available..

I disagree. You must have the quality to be a good KPF. Picking one early because you need one is the wrong approach. You spend a valuable pick and get someone not that good. Apart from Darcy the other KPs this year are basically 2nd rounders. Andrew is different - he's a development special, with a super high potential ceiling, but a 4ish year wait.

 

[Karp3_dm]

I got a feeling Jay Amiss might be available at 7 do we pull the trigger.

Once I heard Cal toomey and Nat edwards say he would be a great pick for Richmond I instantly crossed him off the list

 

[richoatthedisco]

i respect your opinion mate - do you think Andrew could develop into an elite key fwd? I love the skill set he has, agility, spring, contested mark, can take it out in front on the lead. He hasn’t kicked many goals but everything he does screams key fwd potential to me

Andrew has the most potential, definitely. He does show some capability up forward but as you say not many runs on the board. And will go before our pick.

We have Biggie who has similar traits.

No.

 

[RobsJourney]

Shane Mumford

41

Shane Mumford

Age

39

Ht

198cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

8.0

5star

CL

3.0

4star

HO

29.9

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

1.3

1star

HB

6.0

3star

CL

2.3

4star

HO

18.5

5star

D

6.2

2star

K

1.6

1star

HB

4.6

4star

HO

12.4

5star

just confirmed he's retired, so you reckon GWS might be more open to drafting Andrew and potentially moving back a few picks?

 

[Wrenny]

Balta is not Rance for the simple reason the have different bodies and move differently. Balta can be a great player but he is Balta, he is not Rance. TO get the best out of himself Balta needs to be Balta not Rance, whatever Balta lets Balta do that is what he should do

Balta is more like Rance than Sinn.

 

[docko911]

get townsend

Just to play on Lever in the finals

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Shane Mumford just confirmed he's retired, so you reckon GWS might be more open to drafting Andrew and potentially moving back a few picks?

His retirement was already 100% decided at the end of this season. The announcement is a formality. So no change in their situation at all from it, but still means they may be interested in trading their pick 2. I am sure we have an offer waiting ... And they are taking offers for it.