List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[Dr Tigris]

If we managed to jag Callaghan and Ward (ward doesnt make it to pick 14 in any world) we would have our midfield set for the next 10 years.

This is pure fantasy and completely jizz worthy

I started reading and then started laughing.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

I think if the player we want is there and were certain hes going either that pick or the Freo pick thereafter then you'd absolutely look at that deal. Maybe with a swap of later picks to even it up but id imagine with our super strong draft hand we will be using picks to slightly move up to get the targets we want.

I wouldnt be making any of those trades, for example, if Hawks want Hobbs say over Ward, why would they trade out 5 knowing that we will take Hobbs, both those clubs would only trade their pick if they had intentions of taking someone other than Hobbs anyway, which, if the case Hobbs will slide to us anyway.

Look at it this way, if we want Hobbs, and he gets to our pick, would we trade picks with say Saints because the really want Hobbs and leave ourselves with the best of the rest? Of Coarse we wouldnt do that and neither would Hawks or Freo. If these clubs are prepared to trade that pick knowing we want Hobbs then odds are they arent picking him anyway and he gets to us.

Different story if someone like Callaghan slid to Crows pick.

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Yeh, thats a fair call. It would take 7 & 15 to get your hands on Pick 2 to get Calla. Wonder if you'd do that. I think GWS would, they'd get Mac or Gibcus and potentially Goater also. Best thing AFL ever did was introduce live pick trading. Makes the draft much more intriguing.

AFL should change to a full blown points based trading and draft auction system, imagine how much more exciting that would be come draft night.

 

[Simche]

You might end up losing them like cjj. Higgins. Butler.

They may not get a game like Ross or not play where they are best - rcd

Not sure any of the blokes that have left have really hurt us (obviously with CCJ a caveat). Yes Butler had a great couple of years, but he reverted to type this year and was nearly dropped. Besides we were winning premierships and he still wouldn't have got a game.

Higgins played some good footy this year in spurts but also cost the Saints a game through inaccuracy. I'm not convinced he becomes an A grade talent.

Ross doesn't get games because he isn't an elite talent. He may have some improvement in him, but I am not convinced.

Re Collier-Dawkins, I do not agree that his issue is that he is played out of position. I would argue that he simply has not been in good enough condition or playing well enough to warrant a spot in the seniors in the middle. He got an opportunity there this year and is still miles away from where he needs to be.

The above are compelling reasons why you take more as opposed to less picks, particularly given the highest draft pick there is Higgins at 17. We will get two picks before that spot and then the opportunity to add blokes like Bolton and Balta who both went in the second round.

It would set the club back years to trade away two picks to move up to Callaghan only to find out he does not cut it at the level. I think you minimise the risk by taking multiple picks and I think the fact we have the list spots indicates that is exactly what we are going to do.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

LOL - what so because your indigenous you can't be racist?

You should know better than anyone how hurtful it can be to be judged based on the color of your skin and not on you as a person.

We can't compare people of the same background now? lol
Yeah your right i must be racist.

 

[acr2751]

ffs get a room

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Biggy is a key defender

Suggest you think before posting something that stopid again

https://www.richmondfc.com.au/players/2254/bigoa-nyuon
Yet our own club sees him as a ruck.

 

[Grrr]

Its completely different.

The only similarities between Biggy and Andrew are they are Sudanese.

Biggy is a key defender that was a late speculative pick. Mac Andrew is a projected top 10 pick that is 200cm and plays as a Ruck / Forward.

Your comparison is like trying to compare Luke Jackson to Nathan Broad.

Suggest you think before posting something that stopid again

Not really. Both played ruck forwards as juniors, mainly ruck. We are using Biggy as a CHB, mainly due to being a best place to develop a young tall.

Bigoa might be able to play forward one day, maybe forward ruck even. He is 197cm, so a bit smaller, and a much bigger frame, so physically equals the taller and skinnier Andrew. They are both great athletes, something the Sudanese footballers seem to have in common, with great leaps which allows them to play the ruck role, as it would Balta if we played him there. Paddy Ryder another.

Andrew is further advanced skill wise, but that is not all that important as a ruck, although a good trait. To me both are quite similar, and both may fit into our side nicely down the track, if it ever got that far.

 

[Lord of the Wings]

https://www.richmondfc.com.au/players/2254/bigoa-nyuon
Yet our own club sees him as a ruck.

Not sure the Coaches agree given we played Garthwaite in the ruck last year ahead of Biggy

 

[Mr Magic]

LOL - that's racist dude.

I think you way out of line there on the racist comment.

Biggy in no way is a definitive backman looking at his highlights.

Biggy to me could be similar to MacAndrew as a Ruck/utility/ruck rover/wing hybrid based on elite athletic traits.

Allir Allir and Leek Alleer look more like defensive types where intercept marking is more prominent in their play.

Even Chol is more a ruck/forward due to elite athletic traits. Chol was also a very good kick

Biggy might be able to do a Allir Allir but I have not seen his development to tell.

MacAndrew looks more capable but Biggy may well develop more and both are raw and we are only looking at a small sample size of highlights.

MacAndrew may be more capable as a forward but its a bit speculative at this stage and both, especially MacAndrew need to put on mass and strength and see what they also can do with endurance with more conditioning

 

[Lord of the Wings]

I think you way out of line there on the racist comment.

Biggy in no way is a definitive backman looking at his highlights.

Biggy to me could be similar to MacAndrew as a Ruck/utility/ruck rover/wing hybrid based on elite athletic traits.

Allir Allir and Leek Alleer look more like defensive types where intercept marking is more prominent in their play.

Even Chol is more a ruck/forward due to elite athletic traits.

Biggy might be able to do a Allir Allir but I have not seen his development to tell.

MacAndrew looks more capable but Biggy may well develop more and both are raw and we are only looking at a small sample size of highlights

Well that's a clear as mud explanation - could you edit your post to include Majak Daw also? Got them all covered then.

 

[Mr Magic]

Well that's a clear as mud explanation - could you edit your post to include Majak Daw also? Got them all covered then.

Well Majak put on the mass and strength. Not sure what Majak's enduro was like.

Obviously MacAndrew has shown more than Majak but all of them are similar in different degrees regarding athleticism versus footy IQ and NOUS compared to the likes of Jack Riewoldt or even Goodes in terms of natural feel. I doubt Goodes did not have relatives who had not played the game in terms of feel for the game passed on down in terms of the breeding like JR and other father sons. But Jack Riewoldt's father could play and no doubt with Buddy footy nuos would have been developed in the blood as well. These Sudanese prospects are essentially tall prospects with a lot of athletic traits but MacAndrew does show the most footy nuos I think in the highlights. I think Chol had more footy IQ than Majak, Allir Allir certainly has.

Look I can see how GWS are excited by MacAndrew. He looks to have more feel for the game and ball. If MacAndrew fills out towards a Majak without totally the bulk he could be anything, but their are a lot of ifs and buts.

If MacAndrew gets a shape similar to Buddy, or even Buddy in his first six years in terms of putting on size, it is interesting to see how effective he could be as a forward in particular because he moves well in terms of agility and he has sticky hands. MacAndrew looks more compact in his movement in terms of awareness around the ball with a nice centre of balance(he does not stretch out in his movement and stays compact), which could be a good sign he is connected with the ball rather than reaching for it and he really might become something if he fills out like we hope he can and develop further. MacAndrew looks to take smaller steps rather than stretch out like some of his compatriots in more a runner style, so MacAndrew might survive more in a phone box situation but its early days and speculative

A lot might come down to desire, how badly he/they want it because we are looking at highlights, covid has happened and its hard to tell how much time has been put into their craft

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Not sure the Coaches agree given we played Garthwaite in the ruck last year ahead of Biggy

He's not yet ready to ruck could be one explanation.

 

[Lacustrus]

AFL should change to a full blown points based trading and draft auction system, imagine how much more exciting that would be come draft night.

It would quickly send Carlton broke …

 

[Marcel Proust]

I don't think comparing the African lads is racist but not my strongest area.

If Andrew turns out like chol less rough around the edges you could have a very handy player (?)

I wouldn't be upset at getting him at 7 (/9)

 

[bc27]

I don't think comparing the African lads is racist but not my strongest area.

If Andrew turns out like chol less rough around the edges you could have a very handy player (?)

I wouldn't be upset at getting him at 7 (/9)

It’s not racism per se but teetering on the edge of borderline racial profiling which in itself is a form racial discrimination.
I personally wouldn’t give two hoots on making an effort to help people educate themselves on an online forum. But in this instance its something that needs to be erased from the AFL thought processes and the fans minds. This sort of talk is becoming extinct and the quicker it is less of a conversation about race the better we will be as a footballing community. I genuinely hope that in this day and age we can genuinely compare draft prospects on there footballing attributes without have colour of skin or race being the starting point.

 

[Mr Magic]

I don't think comparing the African lads is racist but not my strongest area.

If Andrew turns out like chol less rough around the edges you could have a very handy player (?)

I wouldn't be upset at getting him at 7 (/9)

Why would it be racist? No one controls who their parents are and at the end of the day we are looking for the best footballers from prospects no matter where they come from.

We are just looking for the best recruits and that requires comparisons, contrast and analysis because the game is about competition and how well they compete and can compete going forward to succeed for themselves and as part of a team environment

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Maybe people should just be mindful when making comparisons. As long as you aren't comparing them because of their race (just because two boys are sudanese, doesn't make mean they are similar players).

Keep on topic pls

 

[Profop]

Why would it be racist? No one controls who their parents are and at the end of the day we are looking for the best footballers from prospects no matter where they come from.

We are just looking for the best recruits and that requires comparisons, contrast and analysis because the game is about competition and how well they compete and can compete going forward to succeed for themselves and as part of a team environment

It's racist because it's suggesting one players ceiling or ability is similar to another players predominately because the colour of their skin is the same and not based on any educated reports on the way the players have performed as juniors.

I don't see anyone saying we shouldn't draft Ben Hobbs because we took Will Martyn or suggesting that the best Hobbs can get to is similar to Martyn.

 

[bc27]

Maybe people should just be mindful when making comparisons. As long as you aren't comparing them because of their race (just because two boys are sudanese, doesn't make mean they are similar players).

Keep on topic pls

To be honest it’s just a lazy comparison and says more about the persons ability to judge footballing ability then anything.

 

[Mr Magic]

It’s not racism per se but teetering on the edge of borderline racial profiling which in itself is a form racial discrimination.
I personally wouldn’t give two hoots on making an effort to help people educate themselves on an online forum. But in this instance its something that needs to be erased from the AFL thought processes and the fans minds. This sort of talk is becoming extinct and the quicker it is less of a conversation about race the better we will be as a footballing community. I genuinely hope that in this day and age we can genuinely compare draft prospects on there footballing attributes without have colour of skin or race being the starting point.

Who is racially profiling?

Comparing Allir Allir to MacAndrew is no different to comparing Lever to Jackson or Buddy or whichever football prospects.

We are talking about football prospects to requiring analysis and comparison. No one really needs to compare JR to Buddy because they are more known quantities and are not going to play for other clubs at their stage of their careers

 

[Mr Magic]

It's racist because it's suggesting one players ceiling or ability is similar to another players predominately because the colour of their skin is the same and not based on any educated reports on the way the players have performed as juniors.

I don't see anyone saying we shouldn't draft Ben Hobbs because we took Will Martyn or suggesting that the best Hobbs can get to is similar to Martyn.

Who wrote their ceiling or ability is similar because the colour of their skin?

What is a educated report?

I wrote we should be wary of getting Hobbs because we already have Presita and Graham as inside mids, go check my posts. THats one of the advantages of players like Goater and others because its the perceived versatility.

The other thing comparing these players is about comparing football traits where they may have similar heights, athletic traits, etc.. separate from race. For example many think getting the two brothers, the Kings, is not a good idea because they are too similar and counterproductive If two Kings play for the Saints one might have to play forward the other back so they do not minimise the impact they have on a footy field in terms of effectiveness within a team dynamic of different cohesive strengths thats required to gel for success. Its like comparing the problems of the Lakers versus the synergy of the Warriors in the NBA or arguments of why Simmons and Embid does or does not work. You can only have so many players playing the same role no matter where they come from. Its like our club having so many rucks. If we regard Biggy as a ruck, thats Nank, Colina, Ryan and Soldo as well as Biggy as rucks not including Balta helping out so thats more than enough ruck types for us

 

[Profop]

And how big of a chance that Andrew makes it?
I'd say a similar chance as Biggie

Who wrote their ceiling or ability is similar because the colour of their skin?

What is a educated report?

I said we should be wary of getting Hobbs because we already have Presita and Graham as inside mids, go check my posts

The above post was the one that stuck out to me. I'm not sure how anyone is coming to the decision that Andrew has a similar chance of making it to Biggie, the comment makes no sense (providing you think draft watchers have any idea).

An educated report would be any of the draft watchers from the draft board, the guys at draft central and the guys at afl.com. Basically people who have watched these guys play games as a junior. Not people just having a quick look at highlights and forming opinions from that.

Personally I think the AFL have to take some of the blame for all of this for dragging out the time till the draft so far.

 

[bc27]

Who is racially profiling?

Comparing Allir Allir to MacAndrew is no different to comparing Lever to Jackson or Buddy or whichever football prospects.

We are talking about football prospects to requiring analysis and comparison. No one really needs to compare JR to Buddy because they are more known quantities and are not going to play for other clubs at their stage of their careers

I’ll direct you back to post #5557 of this thread. This to me was where this conversation originated from and to me was a poor comment and was bordering racial profiling.

 

[Grrr]

He's not yet ready to ruck could be one explanation.

He wasn't selected as a ruck is another. He was selected as a back and he might of pinch hit in the ruck for all of about 5 minutes.