List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[JR82]

Only possible downside to this, keeping the picks for live trading is that teams will know if we take 8 picks to the draft but only have 4 list spots that if we cant trade them then they will just be wasted so a bit more bargaining power to the oppo clubs knowing we need to trade or we'll lose them.

or.... clubs will know we will want to trade & will come knocking, good bidding war for us to cash in on

 

[JR82]

Is there any guarantee other clubs would want them to enable that trade, or is there some formula about sacrificing points at play here?

Some Clubs need pts to match & don't have great picks, someone will be desperate to offer us something good

 

[JR82]

No doubt we have improved immeasurably (hang on, that's not right, we have improved by three flags) and obviously, our drafting has massively improved post Francis & co (I realize he wasn't in control in 04') - but the reality is the AFL has just changed so much in this time as well. No side could squander a draft in this day and age like we did at the time. The recruiting teams are too organized, well resourced, human-focused and data-rich, and this coordination is across the board. Some teams are better than others obviously, but largely howlers are less and less.

Our development though as you point out has really come on, both as a comparison to ourselves but also relative to the rest of the AFL. We now develop talent very well, and this is not to say we can't get better, but our culture in combination with our people selection (players and staff) is setting us up for sustained success.

The human capital at Richmond at the moment is incredible, and probably the best it has ever been.

I hope this period for the RFC sets us up for the next 100 years in all facets of the club; on-field success, culture, financial and desire to fly the flag from players and fans alike.

Also with the soft cap we didn't cut any recruiters, knowing the draft hand we had coming our way. I know there's the '04 Draft but we were a basket case back then & we are a well run club nowadays.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Good thing about having all the WA talent this year is we have our secret weapon watching them all year
Sammy Cousens

 

[Infamy]

If we're able to get something acceptable for CCJ & Chol, I'd not only want to trade up for both the Dogs pick 17 & 18, but I'd be also willing to trade our Pick 28 for Collingwood's 2022 2nd rounder. Our Pick 28 will be enough to cover the deficit they need to stop them going into arrears for matching a bid at Pick 1.

I'd try to upgrade Pick 26 in the CCJ trade to Pick 20 and our later picks for the Dogs Pick 17/18 plus a 2022 3rd round pick
This way we could still go to the 2021 draft with picks 7, 15, 17 & 20, plus still have the Pies 2nd & Dogs 3rd in 2022.

 

[GoTigers2015]

If we're able to get something acceptable for CCJ & Chol, I'd not only want to trade up for both the Dogs pick 17 & 18, but I'd be also willing to trade our Pick 28 for Collingwood's 2022 2nd rounder. Our Pick 28 will be enough to cover the deficit they need to stop them going into arrears for matching a bid at Pick 1.

I'd try to upgrade Pick 26 in the CCJ trade to Pick 20 and our later picks for the Dogs Pick 17/18 plus a 2022 3rd round pick
This way we could still go to the 2021 draft with picks 7, 15, 17 & 20, plus still have the Pies 2nd & Dogs 3rd in 2022.

Should target pick 17 or 18
17/18 for 28 + 40 + 44
Pick 17/18 could become pick 20. If we are keen of Andrews (Melb) or Owens (Saints), the Saints or Demons could offer their 2022 1st rounder for this pick.

 

[smurfin]

That bid actually does not out bid us, The magic number to cover pick 17 with two picks is 1025. At the end of covering pick 17 with our lot they would have pick 40 left. 28 = 677 + 44 362 total 1039 PICK 40 FOR THE DOGS TO USE IN THE DRAFT. With gold coast they would have pick 43 left 22 = 845 + 50 = 207 total 1052. Pick 43 left for the dogs to use in the draft.

Im not sure GCS would be overly keen to lose picks for just a 5 spot promotion as well.
Also we could offer up the chol compensation, I'm assuming end of second round which will be around pick 39. or the CC-J TRADE #38 we wont get more, for dogs future second round pick, that would well and truly get the dogs back into this years draft with possibly pick 39 and 40.

Imo we are in the box seat if we truly want their pick 17.

I get what you're saying, but they wouldn't have pick 40 left over.
It's not about matching pick 17, it's about them matching a pick 3 bid. They will need 1787 points with the 20% discount.
Currently they don't have enough points. Pick 17 is 1025 points, (or 985 points if it's pick 18).
28, 40, 44 still doesn't give them quite enough points (1468) but I think it's better than anyone else will offer.

Gold Coast could offer more points, but I agree with you that it's not worth it for them. We are the only team likely to throw in a couple of 40s picks for an 11 pick upgrade in the "even draft". And even then, I'd only want to do it as Van Rooyen may not last until pick 26 but we could then use pick 17 on him and still use our first 2 picks on best available midfielders.
If someone else has reached for Van Rooyen before pick 17 then it means Wanganeen or Sonsie or someone else who really should be gone by then is available.

 

[smurfin]

If we're able to get something acceptable for CCJ & Chol, I'd not only want to trade up for both the Dogs pick 17 & 18, but I'd be also willing to trade our Pick 28 for Collingwood's 2022 2nd rounder. Our Pick 28 will be enough to cover the deficit they need to stop them going into arrears for matching a bid at Pick 1.

I'd try to upgrade Pick 26 in the CCJ trade to Pick 20 and our later picks for the Dogs Pick 17/18 plus a 2022 3rd round pick
This way we could still go to the 2021 draft with picks 7, 15, 17 & 20, plus still have the Pies 2nd & Dogs 3rd in 2022.

I'd like that, but with the PSD scenario, I think pick 38 is the best North will offer us for CCJ.
In their shoes I would not let pick 20 out of my grip, even for a 6 place slide in an "even draft"

 

[4tune8]

I get what you're saying, but they wouldn't have pick 40 left over.
It's not about matching pick 17, it's about them matching a pick 3 bid. They will need 1787 points with the 20% discount.
Currently they don't have enough points. Pick 17 is 1025 points, (or 985 points if it's pick 18).
28, 40, 44 still doesn't give them quite enough points (1468) but I think it's better than anyone else will offer.

Gold Coast could offer more points, but I agree with you that it's not worth it for them. We are the only team likely to throw in a couple of 40s picks for an 11 pick upgrade in the "even draft". And even then, I'd only want to do it as Van Rooyen may not last until pick 26 but we could then use pick 17 on him and still use our first 2 picks on best available midfielders.
If someone else has reached for Van Rooyen before pick 17 then it means Wanganeen or Sonsie or someone else who really should be gone by then is available.

Pick 17 could quite easily become 19 which means they're even more deficit, and of less value to us. Picks 28, 40 & 44 are way too generous, considering 40 & 44 will become 38 & 42 after bid matching.

 

[GoTigers2015]

Pick 17 could quite easily become 19 which means they're even more deficit, and of less value to us. Picks 28, 40 & 44 are way too generous, considering 40 & 44 will become 38 & 42 after bid matching.

The Pies will try to trade their picks in the 30s for more points. You have also got to add in end of 2nd round compo picks for Chol and Hewitt. If anything picks 40 and 44 will slide.

 

[smurfin]

The Pies will try to trade their picks in the 30s for more points. You have also got to add in end of 2nd round compo picks for Chol and Hewitt. If anything picks 40 and 44 will slide.

I don't see the Pies having much luck with selling their picks.
Their highest pick is their second round 36, worth 502 points. Not high enough a pick for clubs to be clambering over each other to get.
Brisbane may offer 47 & 51 to make 36 their 3rd pick? That's only 575 points. And as you say, third rounders could be pushed back 1 or 2 spots due to compo so would be worth even less.
Collingwood going to have to trade out players or use future picks to get any decent points this year, and then trade out more futures to get back into this draft.
Going to be glorious.

Maybe we offer our 28 for their 36 and a swap of next year's first rounders?
They will have much better luck moving pick 28 into better points. For instance Geelong's 34 & 52 or West Coast's 35 & 49.
And may not make too much difference to us this year. I see our second round picks mostly being used to trade to desperate clubs for 2022 upgrades and/or the Bulldogs first round pick. Or it's the difference between us drafting say Josh Browne at 28 or Charlie Molan at 36.

 

[sregit]

Trading could be really interesting this year. Lots of clubs in a pick pickle. So we might be able to swing a few tasty deal for picks. I'd love to keep our strong 2021 hand and get a 2nd or 2 next year. If we could get a 1st I'd be delighted, but don't expect that.

Clubs will not give up their 2022 first pick unless it's for a star player. Our best chance of securing an early pick is the Pies 2022 second rounder

If we're able to get something acceptable for CCJ & Chol, I'd not only want to trade up for both the Dogs pick 17 & 18, but I'd be also willing to trade our Pick 28 for Collingwood's 2022 2nd rounder. Our Pick 28 will be enough to cover the deficit they need to stop them going into arrears for matching a bid at Pick 1.

I'd try to upgrade Pick 26 in the CCJ trade to Pick 20 and our later picks for the Dogs Pick 17/18 plus a 2022 3rd round pick
This way we could still go to the 2021 draft with picks 7, 15, 17 & 20, plus still have the Pies 2nd & Dogs 3rd in 2022.

This is the most sensible option I've read so far. People proposing we give away our later draft picks so the dogs can satisfy the Darcy points required are insane. Pick 17 is not worth losing 1600-1700 points. We'd be giving to much up.
You're right we can get the Pies pick 2 next year which will be early, around pick 20-22. We can possibly use 28 or 2 later picks to give them 700 points(40&44).Thats what they need for Daicos. The Pies are in the market for points and we are the owners of many.

Your logic for acquiring pick 17/18 is reasonably sound but if we were to provide the Dogs with the points they require, then we'd need their pick 2 in 2022 aswell as 17/18 this year to make it viable.

 

[_RT_]

Only possible downside to this, keeping the picks for live trading is that teams will know if we take 8 picks to the draft but only have 4 list spots that if we cant trade them then they will just be wasted so a bit more bargaining power to the oppo clubs knowing we need to trade or we'll lose them.

We can only take as many picks to the draft as we have open list spots.

 

[sregit]

We can only take as many picks to the draft as we have open list spots.

Not true. The afl is allowing clubs to take an extra 2 picks than spots for the purpose of trading.

 

[_RT_]

Not true. The afl is allowing clubs to take an extra 2 picks than spots for the purpose of trading.

That was last year, this year as far as I can tell they went back to only being able to have picks that match spots available.

Swans, Pies among clubs buoyed by late draft rule tweak

Clubs matching bids on Academy and father-son players will be able to use the points from picks they didn't plan to use

www.afl.com.au

 

[smurfin]

That was last year, this year as far as I can tell they went back to only being able to have picks that match spots available.

Swans, Pies among clubs buoyed by late draft rule tweak

Clubs matching bids on Academy and father-son players will be able to use the points from picks they didn't plan to use

www.afl.com.au

It's so hard to find definite information anywhere.
Much better for an exciting draft night if clubs are allowed to bring a couple of extra picks. Otherwise live-trading can only be direct swaps as 2-for-1 swaps would be pointless?

 

[sregit]

It's so hard to find definite information anywhere.
Much better for an exciting draft night if clubs are allowed to bring a couple of extra picks. Otherwise live-trading can only be direct swaps as 2-for-1 swaps would be pointless?

Not right. Example...You could have 6 spots and 6 draft picks but only draft 4 players. Trade 3 picks for one higher pick.

 

[BKM78]

No doubt we have improved immeasurably (hang on, that's not right, we have improved by three flags) and obviously, our drafting has massively improved post Francis & co (I realize he wasn't in control in 04') - but the reality is the AFL has just changed so much in this time as well. No side could squander a draft in this day and age like we did at the time. The recruiting teams are too organized, well resourced, human-focused and data-rich, and this coordination is across the board. Some teams are better than others obviously, but largely howlers are less and less.

Our development though as you point out has really come on, both as a comparison to ourselves but also relative to the rest of the AFL. We now develop talent very well, and this is not to say we can't get better, but our culture in combination with our people selection (players and staff) is setting us up for sustained success.

The human capital at Richmond at the moment is incredible, and probably the best it has ever been.

I hope this period for the RFC sets us up for the next 100 years in all facets of the club; on-field success, culture, financial and desire to fly the flag from players and fans alike.

Really well said. Culture has been revered for very long time in the corporate world. it is far harder to copy or emulate than IP. case in point: Collingwood.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

JVR was on fire and kicked 4.4 in the wafl game apparently

Parker was in Brownlow form before joining us.

 

[smurfin]

Not right. Example...You could have 6 spots and 6 draft picks but only draft 4 players. Trade 3 picks for one higher pick.

But the club receiving the three lower picks for their higher pick now has more picks than they can use. They'd have to have a couple of really low worthless picks to entertain that deal.

 

[richoplzbreed]

But the club receiving the three lower picks for their higher pick now has more picks than they can use. They'd have to have a couple of really low worthless picks to entertain that deal.

Bulldogs need points for Darcy. Simples!!!

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Parker was in Brownlow form before joining us.

LOL compare apples with apples mate
JVR is a kid thats proven he is quality since he was 15

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

LOL compare apples with apples mate
JVR is a kid thats proven he is quality since he was 15

Ok
I was in Brownlow form when I was 15.
(Then I woke up).

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Ok
I was in Brownlow form when I was 15.
(Then I woke up).

Yours was a dream , JVR is reality

now go back to sleep

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Yours was a dream , JVR is reality

now go back to sleep

For all you know I might be Dusty.