Analysis 2021 draft thread

[bungalow_bill]

Seems Knevitt could be a good pick up at 18. a 193 CM contested beast would thrive in our mid field

 

[pulpdriver]

Seems Knevitt could be a good pick up at 18. a 193 CM contested beast would thrive in our mid field

I reckon we've got one already but injuries and rotations have limited us. Neale and Lyons is an amazing combo and when they win the ball, which they do often, we look unbeatable. It's when the opposing midfield gets on top, which is usually due to a big body at the clinches and good support running, they look woeful. Would like to see Berry a more regular fixture in our midfield. Obviously injury has impeded that but when at full strength his strength and two way running is something we could really need. Does not win the ball like Lyons does but his defensive abilities are far beyond our current group.
I want Starce to run through there too.

 

[mattsmob]

I reckon we've got one already but injuries and rotations have limited us. Neale and Lyons is an amazing combo and when they win the ball, which they do often, we look unbeatable. It's when the opposing midfield gets on top, which is usually due to a big body at the clinches and good support running, they look woeful. Would like to see Berry a more regular fixture in our midfield. Obviously injury has impeded that but when at full strength his strength and two way running is something we could really need. Does not win the ball like Lyons does but his defensive abilities are far beyond our current group.
I want Starce to run through there too.

Agree on having Berry as a part of the first midfield rotation. I thought the game where our midfield looked the best was against Freo later in the season having a starting midfield of Lyons, McCluggage and Berry. Having the two younger guys in there makes such a difference to our pressure and defensive workrate compared to having both Lyons and Neale in there at the same time.

 

[pulpdriver]

Agree on having Berry as a part of the first midfield rotation. I thought the game where our midfield looked the best was against Freo later in the season having a starting midfield of Lyons, McCluggage and Berry. Having the two younger guys in there makes such a difference to our pressure and defensive workrate compared to having both Lyons and Neale in there at the same time.

Best two way runner we have and he has a monstrous body to complement. We've seen his best is extremely good just has not been able to tie it together and deliver it consistently. Would love to see how Tracc, Pig and Viney match up against Neale, Berry and Starce.

 

[mattsmob]

Best two way runner we have and he has a monstrous body to complement. We've seen his best is extremely good just has not been able to tie it together and deliver it consistently. Would love to see how Tracc, Pig and Viney match up against Neale, Berry and Starce.

I'd probably still like to see Starc in a more attacking role off halfback first to see what his ability to find the ball and use it in attack is before moving him into the middle. We're probably in the wrong thread for this but I think it's set up perfectly for him to take Birch's role, Answerth to take his lockdown role and use a mix of Berry, Rayner and Cockatoo as our bigger bodies going through the midfield.

 

[Knightmare]

What would you say are his weaknesses?

Work by foot mostly - lacking both consistency and hurt factor. I also find at times he can be low impact per possession and have some games where he can find more of the footy than expected, particularly in games where he's not winning as high of a % contested.

When you have the time, I’m interested if you could compare Knevitt and Goater, as I know you’re not as high on Goater as others.

I actually got this question on the TrueFooty podcast on YouTube in our interview.

Knevitt as a midfielder I view favourably. He's taller, but also the more accomplished midfielder and stronger contested ball winner. Goater though is the better behind the ball and at least on what he has shown to date as he has played very little through the midfield, he's looking better suited to playing across half-back as more of an intercepter and rebounder.
So it's basically a comparison of someone who is a good mid v someone who is more-so good across half-back who you hope down the track could develop into a good midfielder.

 

[jackess]

It's amazing the impact a few centimeters height difference has on a midfielders ability.

 

[briztoon]

Work by foot mostly - lacking both consistency and hurt factor. I also find at times he can be low impact per possession and have some games where he can find more of the footy than expected, particularly in games where he's not winning as high of a % contested.



I actually got this question on the TrueFooty podcast on YouTube in our interview.

Knevitt as a midfielder I view favourably. He's taller, but also the more accomplished midfielder and stronger contested ball winner. Goater though is the better behind the ball and at least on what he has shown to date as he has played very little through the midfield, he's looking better suited to playing across half-back as more of an intercepter and rebounder.
So it's basically a comparison of someone who is a good mid v someone who is more-so good across half-back who you hope down the track could develop into a good midfielder.

What did you think of Goater’s game (kicking aside) in the Vic Metro v Vic Country challenge game, where he played mostly through the midfield?

 

[Knightmare]

What did you think of Goater’s game (kicking aside) in the Vic Metro v Vic Country challenge game, where he played mostly through the midfield?

"Not only did Calder Cannon Josh Goater win the ball through the midfield, but he took on the game with intent, displayed impressive evasion, a strong work rate and impressed with his work by hand in congestion. The athletic, strong marking utility enhanced his first-round draft chances with 23 disposals, eight clearances and five marks for Vic Metro."

Through the midfield, I would like to see more volume contested ball winning and for that side of his game to continue improving (aside from his work by foot), but otherwise some positive signs to suggest he could develop into a midfielder with good development and time.

 

[pulpdriver]

I'd probably still like to see Starc in a more attacking role off halfback first to see what his ability to find the ball and use it in attack is before moving him into the middle. We're probably in the wrong thread for this but I think it's set up perfectly for him to take Birch's role, Answerth to take his lockdown role and use a mix of Berry, Rayner and Cockatoo as our bigger bodies going through the midfield.

I can definitely see that, it's basically the natural transition for a small defender that has his traits but I really reckon we could use him in the middle. He's strong, he's quick, he has a massive tank, he wins the contested ball and he has a great defensive nuous. I don't expect him to be Patrick Cripps but if he could play a role like a quicker Hugh Greenwood rotating through the midfield that could be massively beneficial to us at times.

 

[pulpdriver]

Work by foot mostly - lacking both consistency and hurt factor. I also find at times he can be low impact per possession and have some games where he can find more of the footy than expected, particularly in games where he's not winning as high of a % contested.

Wouldn't be close to my top ratings attributes for an inside mid so I'll take that as an endorsement.

 

[mattsmob]

I can definitely see that, it's basically the natural transition for a small defender that has his traits but I really reckon we could use him in the middle. He's strong, he's quick, he has a massive tank, he wins the contested ball and he has a great defensive nuous. I don't expect him to be Patrick Cripps but if he could play a role like a quicker Hugh Greenwood rotating through the midfield that could be massively beneficial to us at times.

I think what the Swans have done with Mills to this point in his career has been very good, started as a lockdown defender, started accumulating more touches then transitioned into the midfield.

Wouldn't be close to my top ratings attributes for an inside mid so I'll take that as an endorsement.

For Brisbane specifically wouldn't he become more of what we already have without any real point of differences other than his height?

 

[pulpdriver]

I think what the Swans have done with Mills to this point in his career has been very good, started as a lockdown defender, started accumulating more touches then transitioned into the midfield.

Yeah, they developed him well. Worthwhile to remember if our draftee hasn't played a game up to halfway next year.

For Brisbane specifically wouldn't he become more of what we already have without any real point of differences other than his height?

How do you mean? I don't think we have many big bodied mids at all, let alone to the point we can worry about their disposal.

 

[mattsmob]

Yeah, they developed him well. Worthwhile to remember if our draftee hasn't played a game up to halfway next year.



How do you mean? I don't think we have many big bodied mids at all, let alone to the point we can worry about their disposal.

I don't think we need a big bodied mid for the sole reason of increasing the size of our midfield, which feels like the main reason we got CEY. We've got guys that are better at what Knevitt does best which is his inside work and I don't believe you can have any more than 2 maybe 3 inside mids in a team.

 

[briztoon]

I don't think we need a big bodied mid for the sole reason of increasing the size of our midfield, which feels like the main reason we got CEY. We've got guys that are better at what Knevitt does best which is his inside work and I don't believe you can have any more than 2 maybe 3 inside mids in a team.

Agree.

I wouldn’t mind a different type of mid, such as Johnson or Goater. Players who can play inside and outside, and compliment ball winners like Robertson and Ashcroft.

 

[briztoon]

I don't think we need a big bodied mid for the sole reason of increasing the size of our midfield, which feels like the main reason we got CEY. We've got guys that are better at what Knevitt does best which is his inside work and I don't believe you can have any more than 2 maybe 3 inside mids in a team.

Just on the bolded. I disagree, if the ball winners are capable of playing other roles as well.

If Rayner is played in the midfield, he’s an inside mid who can burst from stoppages. Cockatoo is supposed to be able to do the same.

But if you’re talking a Lachie Neale and Jarrod Lyons, then yes it’s hard to play another pure inside who is a poor runner.

But you could effectively play Rayner, Cockatoo, Bailey, Zorko, Neale, Lyons, McCluggage, Berry and Robinson through the midfield.

Robinson stays on the wing playing his role. Berry can rotate through either wing and inside. McCluggage rotates between wing and inside.

Rayner, Cockatoo, Zorko and Bailey all rotate between the midfield and forward line.

You could easily replace Zorko with Robertson, who spent time on a wing and up forward, and on ball.

Or if you had another player capable of playing in defence and midfield, you could rotate Starcevich and player X between the midfield and defence.

 

[briztoon]

Twomey reporting that it’s GWS who are potentially interested in Mitch Owens in the top 20.

 

[mattsmob]

Just on the bolded. I disagree, if the ball winners are capable of playing other roles as well.

If Rayner is played in the midfield, he’s an inside mid who can burst from stoppages. Cockatoo is supposed to be able to do the same.

But if you’re talking a Lachie Neale and Jarrod Lyons, then yes it’s hard to play another pure inside who is a poor runner.

But you could effectively play Rayner, Cockatoo, Bailey, Zorko, Neale, Lyons, McCluggage, Berry and Robinson through the midfield.

Robinson stays on the wing playing his role. Berry can rotate through either wing and inside. McCluggage rotates between wing and inside.

Rayner, Cockatoo, Zorko and Bailey all rotate between the midfield and forward line.

You could easily replace Zorko with Robertson, who spent time on a wing and up forward, and on ball.

Or if you had another player capable of playing in defence and midfield, you could rotate Starcevich and player X between the midfield and defence.

Yeah my bad, meant pure inside mids. As you mentioned Neale and Lyons are pretty much about as good as you can get for pure inside mids so they're not being replaced and it's difficult to play another if they're not effective anywhere else.

 

[briztoon]

With Josh Ward out of reach, I have a new favorite to follow now - Zac Taylor.

Just 180cm but has a strong skillset with kicking + speed. Wins a lot of footy to go with it, looks a great prospect. Hope we get him.

Hey mpal6 i owe you an apology for being dismissive of this post first time around.

Having a look at Taylor, and he should definitely be in consideration at either of our first two picks.

Just adds to the depth of players available at our two selections.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah my bad, meant pure inside mids. As you mentioned Neale and Lyons are pretty much about as good as you can get for pure inside mids so they're not being replaced and it's difficult to play another if they're not effective anywhere else.

I didn’t mention that.

I don’t mind a midfield with one of Neale or Lyons. I prefer Neale personally.

I do believe having both somewhat puts a ceiling on how far we can go.

 

[Section 5]

I didn’t mention that.

I don’t mind a midfield with one of Neale or Lyons. I prefer Neale personally.

I do believe having both somewhat puts a ceiling on how far we can go.

So prelim is as far as we can go with Neale & Lyons

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Yeah my bad, meant pure inside mids. As you mentioned Neale and Lyons are pretty much about as good as you can get for pure inside mids so they're not being replaced and it's difficult to play another if they're not effective anywhere else.

The other thing that might be considered by the club is that it if decide to trade out Neale back to WA, once his contract finishes with us in 2023, to help maybe improve our Best 22 midfield structure, but also free up the salary cap to keep our young stars for the long-term or recruit another big player to the club.

Now I'm not saying he isn't valuable to us right now cause lets be honest, he is our star player for us without a doubt and with him in the team makes us better off for it, BUT at the same time, if Neale does want to move back to WA in the future and it is affecting his or the team's performance, I wouldn't be overall disappointed if we did let him go at the expense of team glory and would be more disappointed IMO if we lose players in our midfield structure such as McCluggage, Berry, Bailey, Robertson, Rayner, etc in the future, with the tight salary cap we currently have atm.

I think looking at the future and more so the next 5-10 years at the club, if we can play our cards right with our salary cap and etc with our current group of players (plus some of our future F/S & academy players as well), our midfield structure would look pretty darn excellent compared to the rest of the league and tbh would be better then the current one we have now tbh:

2027 Best 22 Brisbane Lions Midfield Structure
Centre: H.McCluggage, J.Berry, Z.Bailey
Followers: O.McInerney, W.Ashcroft (2023+), D.Robertson
Midfield Rotation Players: K.Coleman, N.Cockatoo, C.Rayner, H.Sharp, B.Starcevich, L.Ashcroft (2025+), J.Fletcher (2023+), etc.

 

[briztoon]

So prelim is as far as we can go with Neale & Lyons

We could win it all, if we got the right match ups all the way through the finals.

I don’t believe we can beat Melbourne at their best. Our best versus their best, I believe they win.

A lot will also depend on Rayner and Hipwood making full recoveries from their injuries.

 

[mattsmob]

The other thing that might be considered by the club is that it if decide to trade out Neale back to WA, once his contract finishes with us in 2023, to help maybe improve our Best 22 midfield structure, but also free up the salary cap to keep our young stars for the long-term or recruit another big player to the club.

Now I'm not saying he isn't valuable to us right now cause lets be honest, he is our star player for us without a doubt and with him in the team makes us better off for it, BUT at the same time, if Neale does want to move back to WA in the future and it is affecting his or the team's performance, I wouldn't be overall disappointed if we did let him go at the expense of team glory and would be more disappointed IMO if we lose players in our midfield structure such as McCluggage, Berry, Bailey, Robertson, Rayner, etc in the future, with the tight salary cap we currently have atm.

I think looking at the future and more so the next 5-10 years at the club, if we can play our cards right with our salary cap and etc with our current group of players (plus some of our future F/S & academy players as well), our midfield structure would look pretty darn excellent compared to the rest of the league and tbh would be better then the current one we have now tbh:

2027 Best 22 Brisbane Lions Midfield Structure
Centre: H.McCluggage, J.Berry, Z.Bailey
Followers: O.McInerney, W.Ashcroft (2023+), D.Robertson
Midfield Rotation Players: K.Coleman, N.Cockatoo, C.Rayner, H.Sharp, B.Starcevich, L.Ashcroft (2025+), J.Fletcher (2023+), etc.

Yeah agree with all of that, I still believe we can do better than drafting pure inside mids without much else to their game in the first round. In that 2027 midfield we still have Berry and Robertson and the main two inside mids and all the others have versatility in their game.
Personally I think Coleman stays behind the ball now, seems like he's found his place and should only get better back there.

 

[mpal6]

Hey mpal6 i owe you an apology for being dismissive of this post first time around.

Having a look at Taylor, and he should definitely be in consideration at either of our first two picks.

Just adds to the depth of players available at our two selections.

No worries at all briztoon , as someone who was super excited about Tom Swift I have a massive list of misses too so I am no expert either.