Analysis 2021 draft thread

[briztoon]

But we did trade back to accrue points to match that bid, with Fremantle. We didn't use a first to match.

The point at the time was we could have made a better trade with that second round pick, pre draft.

And we would have still had enough late picks to match a bid for Coleman, and draft the players we did.

I think, from memory, we may have lost one or two late picks, when they finalised the picks for the draft, such as we lost a pick in the 60’s this year.

 

[Tom14]

The point at the time was we could have made a better trade with that second round pick, pre draft.

And we would have still had enough late picks to match a bid for Coleman, and draft the players we did.

I think, from memory, we may have lost one or two late picks, when they finalised the picks for the draft, such as we lost a pick in the 60’s this year.

I have never heard you criticise our draft trading before, but I am glad someone is brave enough to say it!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The point at the time was we could have made a better trade with that second round pick, pre draft.

And we would have still had enough late picks to match a bid for Coleman, and draft the players we did.

I think, from memory, we may have lost one or two late picks, when they finalised the picks for the draft, such as we lost a pick in the 60’s this year.

That's a fair point, but I was responding to a post that said something else entirely.

 

[martinson]

I don’t believe it’s fair to judge the team’s recruiting over a 20 year period, because it wouldn’t have been the same recruiters.

Judge the current team on their performances since 2016.

Yeah sure. I was just making the point that the perception from some people is that our drafting has been ordinary since forever.

And since 2016 probably middling at best with the jury still out on a few players.

 

[martinson]

Hitting on the late picks is often the thing that gets a team right to the top of the tree and keeps them their when they get there. The Academy is a big advantage for us with later picks but lately we have not really taken advantage of that.

Excellent point. A solid player with a later pick is gold. An ordinary player with a first round pick is poison.

 

[martinson]

Remembering that until recently many felt that Petracca was not going to live up to expectations. If he stays injury free Cam has the potential to get to that level

Huge call.

Petracca is the best player going around. A complete matchwinner . Some of the things he's able to do are god like.

I'd love to see it but it's a long way to get there for Cam imo.

 

[Nunez]

Huge call.

Petracca is the best player going around. A complete matchwinner . Some of the things he's able to do are god like.

I'd love to see it but it's a long way to get there for Cam imo.

Just as it was a long was for Petracca to get there.

I have faith Cam will become a very good player.

 

[briztoon]

Huge call.

Petracca is the best player going around. A complete matchwinner . Some of the things he's able to do are god like.

I'd love to see it but it's a long way to get there for Cam imo.

Two years ago, many on here were questioning whether Petracca could progress to the player he is today.

 

[BangyBangy]

When the 2022 season starts Petracca will be 26. Cam has just turned 22.

If Cam has a stellar season in 2024 and makes All Australian, then becomes arguably the best mid forward in 2025 then he'd be matching Petracca time line wise.

Lot of water to go under the bridge between now & then.

 

[dlanod]

Two years ago, many on here were questioning whether Petracca could progress to the player he is today.

I thought he'd be a good impact player, but turning into what he was this year basically meant maintaining that impact consistently while on the ground - it was a very impressive step up to get there.

 

[scoman]

I think I have seen it mentioned that Petracca, despite being rather maligned at times by fans, was still fairly productive in his early years. Far more than Rayner I am pretty sure. That's not to say Cam can't get to that level, but he isn't exactly on trac ( ) at this point.

What Cam did start to show last year was his ability to kick goals more regularly and stand up in big moments. His performance in the final against Richmond was rather Rioli like, with two or three game changing moments.

Hopefully he can pick up where he left off and his improved fitness will help him increase his midfield time and production.

 

[bungalow_bill]

The fact that we're talking about Cam potentially being as good as the games best player is already saying a lot. And if so we will have two of the top 5 players from the 2017 draft. On top of that Starcevich may end up a top 10 player as well

 

[scoman]

Also like to add that it's very rare the first pick is ever considered the best player in their draft class by the end of their career. At the end of the day it's just one pick out of 60-70.

And I certainly wouldn't consider Rayner a bust as the number one pick either. Not at this point in time with what he has already achieved or into the future as I'm pretty confident he hasn't reached his ceiling yet.

 

[martinson]

Two years ago, many on here were questioning whether Petracca could progress to the player he is today.

Of course. As they do with every high draft pick who doesn't produce magic in their first 3 or 4 years.

Petracca has done it reaching an unimaginable high level but from a higher base than Rayner imo.

Just a personal opinion but he's the best player I've seen as far as impact for his team goes in a long time. Before him Dusty and then who ? Garry Junior ? Fyffe maybe. I suppose we want to see him keep doing it like Dusty.

So he's a bit of a one off . He was questioned because 99 % of high picks who looked like he did in their early years don't get anywhere near where he is.

I've got high hopes for Cam but let's just ease the pressure off him .Saying look at Petracca ,Cam could do that is setting too high a bar for a guy who shows a lot of promise and is coming off an ACL..

 

[Dalions]

Also like to add that it's very rare the first pick is ever considered the best player in their draft class by the end of their career. At the end of the day it's just one pick out of 60-70.

And I certainly wouldn't consider Rayner a bust as the number one pick either. Not at this point in time with what he has already achieved or into the future as I'm pretty confident he hasn't reached his ceiling yet.

I see Cam as a Low possession High impact type of player.
If he can get his average possession count to around 20-25 per game with some more midfield time, then we will be talking about him as a game breaker because he makes his possessions count.

 

[martinson]

I see Cam as a Low possession High impact type of player.
If he can get his average possession count to around 20-25 per game with some more midfield time than we will be talking about him as a game breaker because he makes his possessions count.

True.

 

[Nuggo]

Lots of worse No 1 picks then Cam. Even at this stage.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Of course. As they do with every high draft pick who doesn't produce magic in their first 3 or 4 years.

Petracca has done it reaching an unimaginable high level but from a higher base than Rayner imo.

Just a personal opinion but he's the best player I've seen as far as impact for his team goes in a long time. Before him Dusty and then who ? Garry Junior ? Fyffe maybe. I suppose we want to see him keep doing it like Dusty.

So he's a bit of a one off . He was questioned because 99 % of high picks who looked like he did in their early years don't get anywhere near where he is.

I've got high hopes for Cam but let's just ease the pressure off him .Saying look at Petracca ,Cam could do that is setting too high a bar for a guy who shows a lot of promise and is coming off an ACL..

There's often a bit of recency bias that comes into play when it comes to things like rating the current best player/team.

As far as impact on his team goes I'd have Voss as the best ever

 

[martinson]

Lots of worse No 1 picks then Cam. Even at this stage.

Be interesting to see how we handle him this year.

Before he went down last year he was obviously being groomed for 20-30 minutes in the M/F.

With Zorko likely to spend less time M/F we need Cam and maybe Bailey to fill that gap. A fully fit Neale takes up a lot of the slack. And perhaps Starcevich and Dev. If they all stay on the park we should have a stronger M/F group overall. In a perfect world we could do with another really good M/F option.

 

[martinson]

There's often a bit of recency bias that comes into play when it comes to things like rating the current best player/team.

As far as impact on his team goes I'd have Voss as the best ever

Yep. I said Voss was the best I ever saw for impact when he was up and going. If he'd never broken his leg in one of the most sickening sights you'd see on a football field who knows because he was bone on bone in the knee by the early 2000's.

There's also a lot of romancing the past bias as well. I'm old enough to remember Barassi as a young kid and Petracca is an absolute dead ringer for him except a lot more skillful. Sticking to the bull impact type player Sam Kekovich was a sensation when he came along and lasted one season at a very high level. Phil Carman was unstoppable for a season and a half until they woke up he was easy to suck in and he didn't have the robust body of those other guys.

Petracca is in an era where the officiating picks up all the infringements so to me you can't do much about him when he's on song. Which he was in the games that counted this year.

 

[martinson]

Interesting read on how you can be the best player in he game at a relatively young age and gone not too long after.

forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/players/phil-carman/

 

[mattsmob]

Just to weigh in on the best player in the game right now topic, I genuinely don't have much of a gap between Petracca and Bont. I know he cops it a bit from opposition supporters but for a guy his size to move the way he does, the skills he has, the workrate both offensively and defensively. If I could add either player to our team right now it'd probably be Bontempelli.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I'd take Oliver personally

 

[Clarkythelion]

Yep. I said Voss was the best I ever saw for impact when he was up and going. If he'd never broken his leg in one of the most sickening sights you'd see on a football field who knows because he was bone on bone in the knee by the early 2000's.

There's also a lot of romancing the past bias as well. I'm old enough to remember Barassi as a young kid and Petracca is an absolute dead ringer for him except a lot more skillful. Sticking to the bull impact type player Sam Kekovich was a sensation when he came along and lasted one season at a very high level. Phil Carman was unstoppable for a season and a half until they woke up he was easy to suck in and he didn't have the robust body of those other guys.

Petracca is in an era where the officiating picks up all the infringements so to me you can't do much about him when he's on song. Which he was in the games that counted this year.

I agree Voss was the best I've seen, not necessarily in skills, not as in some mystical X factor but in leadership he had no peer. he was a player that could lift a team, fearless he put his both on the line when it was needed at the precise moment. Great players always want the ball as they think they can make a difference and Voss was. You could go to war with Vossy, he would be first out of the trenches charging the enemy, dragging back the wounded then charging again. Ive just not seen another player that could do that so effectively and regularly with just brut force. I hope he goes really well at Carlton.

 

[Nuggo]

Be interesting to see how we handle him this year.

Before he went down last year he was obviously being groomed for 20-30 minutes in the M/F.

With Zorko likely to spend less time M/F we need Cam and maybe Bailey to fill that gap. A fully fit Neale takes up a lot of the slack. And perhaps Starcevich and Dev. If they all stay on the park we should have a stronger M/F group overall. In a perfect world we could do with another really good M/F option.

It felt like Cam was in for a big year last preseason but was not to be. I guess that will be tempered a bit but still hoping for a strong showing in the second half of the year.