2021 Formula One Season: Championship Decider Abu Dhabi - Verstappen Wins in a Controversial Race! 🏆 🍾

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Neale4brownlow

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Based on what? I've been following the sport for about 25 years and while this year was interesting, I don't think the sport itself is at its peak.

And to label disagreeing opinions as just Hamilton fans is ignorant. I'm no Hamilton fan.

Saying the sport is damaged because you didn't like the result of the finale is ignorant.

F1 has cracked into America. Evidenced by the huge crowd in the US this year. That has never happened before. When covid has shut down sport around the world, F1 has largely continued unhindered. Resulting in it becoming a much wider viewed sport than in recent years.
Add to that the close battle between Hamilton and Verstappen.

Google F1 viewership and form your own opinion.

But the Saudi Arabian GP has a higher viewership than any F1 GP for the past 10 years. I imagine Abu Dhabi probably broke that again.

It may be a sweeping generalisation - But anyone who thinks that F1 as a sport is struggling or failing right now is just eating sour grapes.

As a sport / as a business - it is going from strength to strength.
 

DamoESP

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He could have if his team had an IQ over 20 and boxed
I said it earlier on in the thread, but I feel PER contribution to Max winning the race has been underrated.

For once, MERC were the victims of an opposing team having a second driver in their pit window, forcing them to make tough strategy calls. Something that they haven't really had to deal with for years.
 
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Simon_Nesbit

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I said it earlier on in the thread, but I feel PER contribution to Max winning the race has been underrated.

For once, MERC were the victims of an opposing team having a second driver in their pit window, forcing them to make tough strategy calls. Something that haven't really had to deal with for years.

That lap cost Hamilton 8 seconds, and after cards fell the way they did ultimately the World Championship
 

OldBlueFan

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Nope, I understand. I just don't care. Nobody should be allowed to regain a lap once they've been lapped, unless they are able to overtake the lead car on merit.

OK, so you're happy for unlapped cars to be rewarded with a free lap over their immediate rivals (even if they were seconds from being lapped themselves). Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even stupid ones ... I'll leave you to yours.
 

Sixpence

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Saying the sport is damaged because you didn't like the result of the finale is ignorant.
You really think that's the argument being made here? Many fans are either indifferent to the result or happy that Max won, but are unimpressed with the manner the race ended. But sure, keep acting like everyone who disagrees with you is a Hamilton fanboy.
 

mcgarnacle

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They weren't manipulated, it was a lack of time between green flagging the track and the start of the final lap. They probably had time to let them all through in hindsight and people would stop complaining. The rules do need to be fixed though to allow for such a situation, there is no reason why the lapped cars can't just pull to one side and rejoin at the back of the chain of cars on the lead lap, it would take literally 10 seconds to do.

You can't extend the amount of laps due to prefiling the cars before the start of the race, be it normal sc procedure that led to a restart with a lap to go or what actually happen NOTHING changes, NOTHING AT ALL.

I don't have a problem with it because a race should never end under safety car or red flag unless its dangerous to drive, it would have been the last championship decider myself and millions of others bothered to watch if they crossed the line at 60km/h to decide the championship. That and the obvious point everyone is sticking their heads in the sand about, Mercedes could have boxed and won the race, they lost it themselves.

So the rules weren't followed as they should have in this situation.
 

Not Important

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why has hamilton got a knighthood? can sort of understand botham's cos he had done a lot for charity. but hamilton.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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OK, so you're happy for unlapped cars to be rewarded with a free lap over their immediate rivals (even if they were seconds from being lapped themselves). Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even stupid ones ... I'll leave you to yours.

The alternative is the safety car just picks up whichever car is next in line, and doesn't wave anyone through. Would clear up the track quicker, but on re-start, you've then got multiple slow cars being blue flagged while the top cars are fighting in congestion.

Good way to increase the safety car calls I guess.

We have VSC technology - it should be used more often, even a localised VSC anytime double-waved yellows are required.

My preference would be any time a safety car would be required, the race is instead "red flagged" with a pit-lane 'timed' restart. All cars return to pits - and timing as of the last completed lap results in staggered restart from the end of pit lane (rally style).
 

Vader

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OK, so you're happy for unlapped cars to be rewarded with a free lap over their immediate rivals (even if they were seconds from being lapped themselves). Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even stupid ones ... I'll leave you to yours.
It's better than allowing lapped cars to regain a lap, resulting in an artificially good outcome - as we saw with Hamilton in Imola. Hamilton/Imola is a perfect example of why lapped cars should not be allowed to unlap themselves.
 

Thistle

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why has hamilton got a knighthood? can sort of understand botham's cos he had done a lot for charity. but hamilton.
It's awarded for high achievement within their industry so hard to have an issue with it. Completely justified by his on track achievements, and he's done a lot for racism and equality off it.
 

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Neale4brownlow

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You really think that's the argument being made here? Many fans are either indifferent to the result or happy that Max won, but are unimpressed with the manner the race ended. But sure, keep acting like everyone who disagrees with you is a Hamilton fanboy.

It's human nature to have an emotional response. Otherwise we'd be robots.

So yes, I do believe everyone is biased one way or another based off your preferences for Max or Hamilton or Red Bull or Mercedes.

If you're not a fan then why are you watching?

One side is PRO Ham, what a disgrace it is that the standard safety car procedure wasn't followed to the letter and they missed 3x cars allowing Max to win.

One side is PRO Max, what a disgrace it took that long to clear a basic accident. It is standard procedure to allow lapped cars to unlap themselves and should have happened sooner. The drama of the Championship delayed normal procedures, but atleast they managed to squeeze in the lapped cars that would otherwise impact the outcome of the restart. It would have been a bigger farce to end the race under a safety car for the entire last 6 laps of the championship.

Then there's the rest, who I would say just like to argue everything critically and are armchair critics. It's not so easy to make these decisions with a championship on the line. It's VERY easy to argue about it in hindsight.

I'm pro max so surprise surprise I'm content they took what I believe the lesser of two evils. Do I think that makes me correct? No. If I were a Hamilton fan I'd undoubtedly see it the other way.
 

Vader

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It's human nature to have an emotional response. Otherwise we'd be robots.

So yes, I do believe everyone is biased one way or another based off your preferences for Max or Hamilton or Red Bull or Mercedes.

If you're not a fan then why are you watching?

One side is PRO Ham, what a disgrace it is that the standard safety car procedure wasn't followed to the letter and they missed 3x cars allowing Max to win.

One side is PRO Max, what a disgrace it took that long to clear a basic accident. It is standard procedure to allow lapped cars to unlap themselves and should have happened sooner. The drama of the Championship delayed normal procedures, but atleast they managed to squeeze in the lapped cars that would otherwise impact the outcome of the restart. It would have been a bigger farce to end the race under a safety car for the entire last 6 laps of the championship.

Then there's the rest, who I would say just like to argue everything critically and are armchair critics. It's not so easy to make these decisions with a championship on the line. It's VERY easy to argue about it in hindsight.

I'm pro max so surprise surprise I'm content they took what I believe the lesser of two evils. Do I think that makes me correct? No. If I were a Hamilton fan I'd undoubtedly see it the other way.
Explain to me how missing 3x cars allowed Max to win? Missing those 3 cars affected the minor placings, and drivers like Ricciardo would have a right to grumble about not being allowed to race for the minor points. Those 3 cars did not affect the Max/Ham race in any way whatsoever.
 

mcgarnacle

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Explain to me how missing 3x cars allowed Max to win? Missing those 3 cars affected the minor placings, and drivers like Ricciardo would have a right to grumble about not being allowed to race for the minor points. Those 3 cars did not affect the Max/Ham race in any way whatsoever.

C’mon man. Surely you can see the context of his comment.

Masi, or someone above him, prevented normal procedure of allowing all lapped cars through so the call to bring in the safety car could be made before the final lap began. If that departure from standard safety car procedure wasn’t made, then Max wouldn’t have raced for the title as the last lap would’ve been completed under safety car.
 

Vader

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C’mon man. Surely you can see the context of his comment.

Masi, or someone above him, prevented normal procedure of allowing all lapped cars through so the call to bring in the safety car could be made before the final lap began. If that departure from standard safety car procedure wasn’t made, then Max wouldn’t have raced for the title as the last lap would’ve been completed under safety car.
I get that normal procedure wasn't followed. The failure to follow procedures did not affect the race outcome, as far as Max/Ham were concerned.
 

matty p

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Those drivers and their teams. There could very well be KPIs they could have hit by being allowed to unlap themselves. Ricciardo and Stroll behind him were on brand new softs while the drivers in front of them were on really old hards (or old mediums in Alonso and Occon's case IIRC) and they could very well have finished in the points. For cars in the midfield and back of the grid, those couple of points can be crucial to where the team finish in the WCC and could gain them well needed extra prize money.

It is your opinion and subsequently that of race control that has everyone pissed off. If all the drivers (bar Max and Checo), teams (bar RBR), most fans, and the journos are all up in arms about it then something was obviously wrong.

Late to reply to this, but none of those backmarkers could’ve possibly made any gains in the WCC, as you can see from the final standings. So no, it didn’t affect any of them enough to justify the fuss that Mercedes and their fans have laughably made.
 

Skull Face

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So the rules weren't followed as they should have in this situation.
They were followed though, priority of getting in a green lap of racing overruled the completion of 1 but the safety car was brought out correctly, lapped cars were held until until the track was clear.

For the record I fully support any rule change that means a race doesn't finish behind the safety car under any circumstances, the whole result is meaningless otherwise.
 

Neale4brownlow

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Explain to me how missing 3x cars allowed Max to win? Missing those 3 cars affected the minor placings, and drivers like Ricciardo would have a right to grumble about not being allowed to race for the minor points. Those 3 cars did not affect the Max/Ham race in any way whatsoever.

I get that normal procedure wasn't followed. The failure to follow procedures did not affect the race outcome, as far as Max/Ham were concerned.

Correct. That is my stance also, I'm merely outlining the two side of the fence.

What happened did not impact the usual outcome therefore I have no problem with it. It was a unique scenario calling for a unique and quick solution.

The counter argument is, perhaps they SHOULD have followed usual procedure and unlapped ALL cars, and the safety car comes in the following lap. Therefore the race ends under a safety car. I find that to be a rather weak scenario when Mercs should have pitted as soon as they saw Latifi hit the wall, or even under the first VSC earlier in the race (perhaps that would have given Ham enough tyre life to fight Max off in the last lap dual).

One thing I'm sure we all agree on though was it was horrifically unlucky for Hamilton. The race was his, and was almost never in doubt he'd win the championship. But then he had plenty of similarly lucky scenarios through the year (San Marino unlapping himself, Silverstone..., Brazil having the sprint race to gain places with a new engine before the actual race start, etc etc.).

As a whole, Max is a worthy champ this year just going off the stats (wins, podiums, consistency, laps led, poles etc etc).
 

DamoESP

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Latifi has posted for the first time since the accident in Abu Dhabi, some pretty powerful words.

The fact that he had to make this statement in the first place is pretty sad.

 

OldBlueFan

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The alternative is the safety car just picks up whichever car is next in line, and doesn't wave anyone through. Would clear up the track quicker, but on re-start, you've then got multiple slow cars being blue flagged while the top cars are fighting in congestion.

Good way to increase the safety car calls I guess.

We have VSC technology - it should be used more often, even a localised VSC anytime double-waved yellows are required.

My preference would be any time a safety car would be required, the race is instead "red flagged" with a pit-lane 'timed' restart. All cars return to pits - and timing as of the last completed lap results in staggered restart from the end of pit lane (rally style).

I mentioned your alternate scenario earlier. But I agree, I don't think it's viable.

The reason for the "full" safety car is that it bunches the field and so let's marshals have a period where they can safely move around on-track knowing that the field is all in another part of the track. The VSC doesn't do that, it only slows them down, but they're all still lapping spaced-out around the track.

The problem with the red flag scenario is the amount of time it takes to get the race going again.

I think there's a fair amount of "knee jerk" going on with people wanting to change the safety car rules just because of what happened in this race. But the collection of circumstances is so rare as to make it near impossible that anything like this will happen again ...
 

Not Important

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It's awarded for high achievement within their industry so hard to have an issue with it. Completely justified by his on track achievements, and he's done a lot for racism and equality off it.
well! being a top driver in a top team and in the process making millions doesn't rate a title for mine. it's why titles have been demeaned.in oz it's for outstanding achievement and service. even then the likes of court get it. twice. as i said i understand botham was there was service. but hamilton, nah.
 

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