List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

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Joao

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2017
12,167
20,662
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
If we keep Cerra, sign Bolton for our 1st round pick plus Cripps as a free agent are we a top 4 side?

If we aren't, then we need to hit the draft hard and consider trading out players 26 years and above to build our core around our young players.
Not even close IMO. Our spine is still mediocre. The only worse spines are rebuilding clubs like the Hawks.
 

Lach72

Bam!
Sep 30, 2005
45,921
31,956
Perth
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Fremantle
Other Teams
Freo and Bulldogs, ManU
Worked it out, it actually 1y I am happy with from our 25 and under. The gaping problem though (as I am sure is obvious) is that 3 of the 4 missing are from the spine. We need to sort that **** out.


FB Cox----Logue----Hughes

HB Ryan------------Young

C Frederick----Cerra----Aish

HF Henry------------Sturt

FF Western------------Schultz/Switta

Fol Darcy----Brayshaw----Serong

Int Tucker


Also happy with all of these staying on the list as depth players. Couple might become more than that over time.

Depth: Mitch, Watson, Duman, Giro, Meek, Chapman
Couldn't fit Treacy in there huh
 

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Joao

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2017
12,167
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Couldn't fit Treacy in there huh
I was tempted as I do think he is better than 50/50 to come good (B grade or better), but dude might need to kick an AFL goal first. That said, I do have Western who hasn't played in there but I reckon we got a 30 pick discount on him because NGA.
Mmm and only 2 decent picks this year...yum yum
It's great hey?

Going to take several years. At least in theory, Hammer/AP and Tabs can fill the some of the KPP holes in the short term.
 

Lach72

Bam!
Sep 30, 2005
45,921
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In terms of 'decent picks' what is the difference between having just a 1st and 2nd rounder (with no 3rd, 4th, 5th) and having a full set these days?

I've seen it posted several times (not just you) and I just don't get the point being made?
If you have 16 holes to fill would you rather 4 picks before 80 or just the two
 

Lach72

Bam!
Sep 30, 2005
45,921
31,956
Perth
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Fremantle
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Freo and Bulldogs, ManU
I was tempted as I do think he is better than 50/50 to come good (B grade or better), but dude might need to kick an AFL goal first. That said, I do have Western who hasn't played in there but I reckon we got a 30 pick discount on him because NGA.

It's great hey?

Going to take several years. At least in theory, Hammer/AP and Tabs can fill the some of the KPP holes in the short term.
yeah I’m not really concerned about KPB yet...especially as Cox has moved there.
If we can get one more year out of Mundy and Valente shows something we go hard on tall forwards this year and then go midfielders next year.
 

wayToGo_

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 24, 2015
13,533
41,785
AFL Club
Fremantle
If you have 16 holes to fill would you rather 4 picks before 80 or just the two
Of course but a 3rd rounder onward is hardly a guaranteed upgrade on what we have already - it isn't a 'decent pick' and was the type of pick we got the players we need to replace in the first place.

It wasn't very expensive to buy into the 3rd/4th round last year, I'm not expecting it to be that expensive again. We've also got to consider NGA players in that range, so we probably want to buy back into the draft as we need.
 

Joao

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2017
12,167
20,662
QLD
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Fremantle
yeah I’m not really concerned about KPB yet...especially as Cox has moved there.
If we can get one more year out of Mundy and Valente shows something we go hard on tall forwards this year and then go midfielders next year.
We need a development KPD for when Hammer/AP retire/leg falls off. It doesn't need to be this year, but it will have to be in the next few. Good news is that KPDs of quality can be found outside the first round.

We also need more than one KPF. We have to replace Tabs and even if we assume that Treacy is the goods, we still need a forward/ruck.
 

blue shark

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2009
3,596
2,620
perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
We need a development KPD for when Hammer/AP retire/leg falls off. It doesn't need to be this year, but it will have to be in the next few. Good news is that KPDs of quality can be found outside the first round.

We also need more than one KPF. We have to replace Tabs and even if we assume that Treacy is the goods, we still need a forward/ruck.
Oscar Allen plays the entire spine.
Or where he is required.
Bazzo, Williams have the same attributes.
Why don’t, won’t we do the same?
Tabs was getting off the leash, so the Allen move was made.
Jlo dropps Treacy, Meek, but would he play them on Kennedy?
WC have even been patient with Brander and playing him in other positions.
Really thought Meek with Darcy could have worn out NN.
 

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PeopleEater

Team Captain
Aug 22, 2018
431
401
AFL Club
Fremantle
Of course but a 3rd rounder onward is hardly a guaranteed upgrade on what we have already - it isn't a 'decent pick' and was the type of pick we got the players we need to replace in the first place.

It wasn't very expensive to buy into the 3rd/4th round last year, I'm not expecting it to be that expensive again. We've also got to consider NGA players in that range, so we probably want to buy back into the draft as we need.
This is the trouble, isn’t it? 3rd round and up is draft lotto.

If we do move on some players we’d want to be able to trade into the first or early second for it to be worth it. I was looking at draft currency for the hell of it and outside of Fyfe and Walters I was battling to find anyone worth a second rounder that I would offload, which defeats the purpose.

I hope we’re done trading in players for a couple of years because we need to hit some first and second rounders that can football.
 

wakojako

Team Captain
Nov 15, 2020
440
465
AFL Club
Fremantle
So what positions should the club be looking to add to in the future? I think if Treacy gets up and about we probably need one more KPF to be set. We have some amazing small forwads coming in with Sturt, Henry and maybe Motlop. Given the lack of availability for our KPDs I think we need to add about two. Lastly, I think we need a big bodied mid to replace Mundy. So all together:
- 1 KPF
- 2 KPDs
- 1 big bodied mid

I think our wings are fine for now as we have Acres, Aish, Bewley and Tucker. In the future we can even put Young, Freddy and Western out there as well.

Our rebuild is almost done people. Just need to work on our gameplan, skills and creating some success and passion for our club.
 

meesy

All Australian
Apr 14, 2012
602
852
AFL Club
Fremantle
we need mids and another key forward.

Richmond, Melbourne and Bulldogs all have about 6-7 blokes that are decent in the midfield. We have 4 IMO and one is 35 (I don't rate Acres or Aish really). We get smashed in contented possession and it's where the game is won. Without Fyfe we are even more f’ed.
 

Docker82

Premiership Player
Jun 21, 2013
4,404
5,565
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
So what positions should the club be looking to add to in the future? I think if Treacy gets up and about we probably need one more KPF to be set. We have some amazing small forwads coming in with Sturt, Henry and maybe Motlop. Given the lack of availability for our KPDs I think we need to add about two. Lastly, I think we need a big bodied mid to replace Mundy. So all together:
- 1 KPF
- 2 KPDs
- 1 big bodied mid

I think our wings are fine for now as we have Acres, Aish, Bewley and Tucker. In the future we can even put Young, Freddy and Western out there as well.

Our rebuild is almost done people. Just need to work on our gameplan, skills and creating some success and passion for our club.
I’ve said it before - good teams get Pearce and/or Hamling right. Giving up on both of them isn’t a way forward - it’s accepting mediocrity. Chapman did play a bit as a KPD at underage level but doesn’t have the body yet nor do I think it’s where he’ll play long term but it’s a decent last resort to have. If you’re worried about Pearce and Hamling you draft one KPD imo. Anyway let’s see how they go the second half of 2021 before we make judgements.

I’m more worried about KPFs as we really only have two plus Lobb on the list when really we should have at least four plus Lobb. Ideally we have some flexibility to go back with one or two of the guys we select. Wouldn’t mind another ruck developing either as I think we’ll lose Meek eventually. Ideally one with a bit of forward craft.

Is a big bodied mid what we need? I don’t know we look slow in there at times. Hopefully the recruiters know what we need because I don’t reckon I do. The names in midfield seem decent and they seem to perform individually but it isn’t stacking up against the good sides.
 

Johnny Dalmas

Club Legend
Oct 16, 2015
2,612
3,856
Albany
AFL Club
Fremantle
I’ve said it before - good teams get Pearce and/or Hamling right. Giving up on both of them isn’t a way forward - it’s accepting mediocrity. Chapman did play a bit as a KPD at underage level but doesn’t have the body yet nor do I think it’s where he’ll play long term but it’s a decent last resort to have. If you’re worried about Pearce and Hamling you draft one KPD imo. Anyway let’s see how they go the second half of 2021 before we make judgements.

I’m more worried about KPFs as we really only have two plus Lobb on the list when really we should have at least four plus Lobb. Ideally we have some flexibility to go back with one or two of the guys we select. Wouldn’t mind another ruck developing either as I think we’ll lose Meek eventually. Ideally one with a bit of forward craft.

Is a big bodied mid what we need? I don’t know we look slow in there at times. Hopefully the recruiters know what we need because I don’t reckon I do. The names in midfield seem decent and they seem to perform individually but it isn’t stacking up against the good sides.
Is the midfield a personnel issue or a system issue?
 

Johnny Dalmas

Club Legend
Oct 16, 2015
2,612
3,856
Albany
AFL Club
Fremantle
I’ve said it before - good teams get Pearce and/or Hamling right. Giving up on both of them isn’t a way forward - it’s accepting mediocrity. Chapman did play a bit as a KPD at underage level but doesn’t have the body yet nor do I think it’s where he’ll play long term but it’s a decent last resort to have. If you’re worried about Pearce and Hamling you draft one KPD imo. Anyway let’s see how they go the second half of 2021 before we make judgements.

I’m more worried about KPFs as we really only have two plus Lobb on the list when really we should have at least four plus Lobb. Ideally we have some flexibility to go back with one or two of the guys we select. Wouldn’t mind another ruck developing either as I think we’ll lose Meek eventually. Ideally one with a bit of forward craft.

Is a big bodied mid what we need? I don’t know we look slow in there at times. Hopefully the recruiters know what we need because I don’t reckon I do. The names in midfield seem decent and they seem to perform individually but it isn’t stacking up against the good sides.
Is the midfield a personnel issue or a system issue?
 

Johnny Dalmas

Club Legend
Oct 16, 2015
2,612
3,856
Albany
AFL Club
Fremantle
Yes I think Fyfe and Mundy (Walters less so just because of form) are massive issues because they are a lot better than our next best and have somewhere between 1 and 4 years left (MAX) at that level. That's two top 10 midfielders we need to find soon just to break even.

I don't think the "couple of players" assessment is correct. I just think rebuilds take more like 8-10 years and not 4-5 like everyone else seems to think. This is why I have said since the start that it is unlikely Fyfe and Walters are part of a serious flag push.

I also think that having a quality spine is the way to stay competitive in most games and ours is mediocre. We need to smash the draft for KPPs over the next 3 years or it will become "a couple of players" and I'll be saying that Andy won't be part of a flag push.

Also, we need to stop drafting ****ing HB flankers.
If a rebuild takes 8-10 years, how long should it "last" before needing to be done again?
 

CatRiot

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2014
6,061
7,623
AFL Club
Geelong
Was Sumich just talking crap when he said Tucker wants back to the Cats? with S Darcy is in our sights also...

I can see maybe Narkle being offered in a deal back, for either, potentially with picks.

What do you think Tucker and S Darcy's value is realistically at the trade table? Darcy Tucker OOC at end of year?

S Darcy is contracted to 2022, so I guess his trade value could be optimal by season's end.

Tbh, not sure S Darcy is the type of ruck we go for, but he's having a good year. I quite rate him.
 

Joao

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2017
12,167
20,662
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
Oscar Allen plays the entire spine.
Or where he is required.
Bazzo, Williams have the same attributes.
Why don’t, won’t we do the same?
Tabs was getting off the leash, so the Allen move was made.
Jlo dropps Treacy, Meek, but would he play them on Kennedy?
WC have even been patient with Brander and playing him in other positions.
Really thought Meek with Darcy could have worn out NN.
Versatility is great, but I am pretty sure if you asked Simmo he'd say he'd like to be able to put Allen forward and leave him there.

I don't think a comparison to Meek or Treacy is really needed. Totally different players.

Also Brander plays everywhere else because the other players are all better than him.

If a rebuild takes 8-10 years, how long should it "last" before needing to be done again?
Depends on how long your core talent lasts before injury or age catch up with them.

Say we contend in 2024, then Andy etc should all get 5-7 years.

I think having another rebuild or not depends on your ability to draft well when up and about.
 

blue shark

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2009
3,596
2,620
perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
I’ve said it before - good teams get Pearce and/or Hamling right. Giving up on both of them isn’t a way forward - it’s accepting mediocrity. Chapman did play a bit as a KPD at underage level but doesn’t have the body yet nor do I think it’s where he’ll play long term but it’s a decent last resort to have. If you’re worried about Pearce and Hamling you draft one KPD imo. Anyway let’s see how they go the second half of 2021 before we make judgements.

I’m more worried about KPFs as we really only have two plus Lobb on the list when really we should have at least four plus Lobb. Ideally we have some flexibility to go back with one or two of the guys we select. Wouldn’t mind another ruck developing either as I think we’ll lose Meek eventually. Ideally one with a bit of forward craft.

Is a big bodied mid what we need? I don’t know we look slow in there at times. Hopefully the recruiters know what we need because I don’t reckon I do. The names in midfield seem decent and they seem to perform individually but it isn’t stacking up against the good sides.
Versatility is great, but I am pretty sure if you asked Simmo he'd say he'd like to be able to put Allen forward and leave him there.

I don't think a comparison to Meek or Treacy is really needed. Totally different players.

Also Brander plays everywhere else because the other players are all better than him.


Depends on how long your core talent lasts before injury or age catch up with them.

Say we contend in 2024, then Andy etc should all get 5-7 years.

I think having another rebuild or not depends on your ability to draft well when up and about.
Waterman has played down back too.
Sure they would love to play Allen forward, yet he also pinch hits in the ruck.
WC play tall, we don’t, Jlo goes for mids, speed, etc, yet we lose
those positions?
Simmo moves his talls around the board.
Footy these days is about being able to play 2 or more positions.
 

Joao

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2017
12,167
20,662
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
Waterman has played down back too.
Sure they would love to play Allen forward, yet he also pinch hits in the ruck.
WC play tall, we don’t, Jlo goes for mids, speed, etc, yet we lose
those positions?
Simmo moves his talls around the board.
Footy these days is about being able to play 2 or more positions.
Yeah and Waterman is terrible at it. Even the WC board agree. Us losing the midfield has nothing to do with how versatile our KPP players are, it is down to how disciplined the midfield is.

Our midfield got smashed in the 3rd and was undisciplined defensively in every quarter. Whether or not Allen can play forward or back literally has nothing to do with the result, because wherever he might have played, we still would have lost.

Simmo only moves them around because half of his defenders are injured and Allen is versatile.

Imagine being an opposition fan watching their team playing against us when Fyfe plays well and then me bemoaning the fact that their midfielders aren't all elite contested marks. It makes no sense.
 

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