List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

Remove this Banner Ad

thylacine60

Post-Human
Jun 4, 2006
108,293
193,547
Elwood FFS
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Insert Token EPL Club
Assuming without Hewett and Cerra:

FB: Docherty Jones Williamson
HB: Williams Weitering Saad
C: Walsh E.Curnow O'Brien
HF: Cuningham C.Curnow Martin
FF: JSOS, McKay, Honey

R: TDK Cripps Dow

Int: Fogarty, Stocker, Kemp

Then for that last spot you can pick from Plowman, Setterfield, Durdin, Ramsay, Fisher, Carroll and Kennedy without being particularly mad about any option.

The list is good, we were just making some horrible selections and not seeking to determine a system of play that best integrates said talent.
he's back........
 

Blue Reaper

Team Captain
Aug 24, 2009
583
1,747
AFL Club
Carlton
I’m still backing Dow & LOB to make it. Still only 22, Voss has lots to work with and the club’s re-set gives players an opportunity to re-set their careers. Dow has showed enough to build on, and LOB offers a point of difference if he can bring it all together.

Kennedy & Cuningham, at 24 years, are a little more advanced but also poised to take another step.

These four, along with Kemp & Stocker, and throw in potentially Cerra & Hewett, offer a lot of promise if Voss can imprint his brand.
 

Beyond Blue

Team Captain
Jun 25, 2021
517
1,517
AFL Club
Carlton
How do our players compare to the top end at Melbourne.

Jones - May ❌
Weitering - Lever ?
Saad - Salem ?
Stocker - Bowey ✔✔
Docherty - Hibberd ✔
Plowman - Petty ❌

our backline compares really well

TDK - Gawn ❌❌❌
Cripps - Viney ❌
Walsh - Oliver ?
Kennedy - Petracca ❌❌
Curnow - Brayshaw ?
O’Brien/Newnes - Langdon ❌

a lot of losses here. But TDK is getting better. Cripps had a poor year while Walsh will go past Oliver eventually. Add Cerra instead of Curnow and we will start to get closer to breaking even.

McKay - Brown ✔✔
Curnow - McDonald ❌
Honey - Pickett ❌❌
Owies - Fritsch ❌❌
Mcgovern - Harmes ?
Fisher - Neal-Bullen ❌

another loss overall but Curnow, honey and McGovern should improve next season. Fishers eat is better than Neal-Bullen but will we see it.

Melbourne’s bench consists of fit two way running role players and a second ruck. Players like Dow, Fogarty, Williams, Silvagni, Williamson and Gibbons are our equivalent which are better than Melbourne’s hands down. Silvagni probably harshly done by not starting over mcgovern/Newnes or Fisher.

our list management has a few holes for 2022. It can be fixed pretty easily in my opinion.

Number 1 - keeping our players on the field with full uninterrupted preseasons
Number 2 - adding Cerra, hewett and a second ruck
Number 3 - a proper game plan that stops exposing our strong backline.

The last one should have huge upsides in all three lines and make us a 5-6 goal better team.
It’s always hard to do these comparisons, so whilst I appreciate you went to the effort, you simply cannot line up all positions across the field (Harmes is nothing like McGovern, nor are Owies and Frisch alike), and in any event the Dees are far superior in pretty much every aspect of playing as a team to us that the comparison of individual talent is almost a mute point.

Finally even when we look at it from individual talent perspective it’s very subjective, for example I think Luke Jackson is already better than TDK, Angus Brayshaw is a lot better than Ed and as good as Weitering and Jones are they I do think May and Lever are the better combo.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Jeremias

Moderator
Sep 26, 2004
40,376
46,575
AFL Club
Carlton
Maybe but I don’t think there are many good ones in the current day AFL.
Look at last night mainly taller mids like Oliver, Petracca, the Bont, Macrae and of the small fellas Viney and Libba are strong bodies who would (and probably have) rag doll someone like Fisher.
Last night, Ed Langdon at 76kg

Richmond threepeat, Edwards (78kg) and Lambert (77kg), Bolton with 2 flags at 77kg.

2018, Masten at 77kg

Can go back further, but I think the point is clear. Being on the lighter side does not preclude a player from being part of a successful midfield.

Agree you can't have a midfield entirely made up of the lighter types, who you surround them with is important. Balance is critical.
 

Dramoth

Premium Platinum
Jul 19, 2005
28,441
19,605
Bunbury, WA
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Manchester United
Last night, Ed Langdon at 76kg

Richmond threepeat, Edwards (78kg) and Lambert (77kg), Bolton with 2 flags at 77kg.

2018, Masten at 77kg

Can go back further, but I think the point is clear. Being on the lighter side does not preclude a player from being part of a successful midfield.

Agree you can't have a midfield entirely made up of the lighter types, who you surround them with is important. Balance is critical.
Glascott... about 20kg sopping wet (actually about 71kg). He was a winger.
 

JuddgementDay

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 10, 2010
10,163
12,474
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
You don't know how much I've come to despise phrases like 'cream on top player'... We've used this phrase for a large number of our players on this forum and I think it's such a cop out.
1. Get the system right. How do we want to win games of football?
2. Make sure our players know what their role in the team is with their eyes closed
3. Each player executes their role, whether in the 1s or 2s.

Players and coaches all need to take responsibility for their own performances.

Review, improve, repeat. No more excuses.

It's about time we got our coaching and evelopmemt in order rather than thinking most of the job is done once you've the trades and new players have been drafted. Where you are drafted or traded from should mean nothing once you step into Ikon Park.
I agree, but as can be seen in the GF when you are off, the team can look very second rate e.g. Melb in the 2nd qtr and WBDs in the last qtr.

We have been playing from behind in most games, it’s very tiring chasing & look like headless chooks…

But, on the bright side we were still in contention for the top 8 going into the last few weeks of the season.

A new coach, better systems, higher standards, higher efforts and just as importantly, a little bit more luck with injuries - we should be final bound.


I’ll bet that some of our more inconsistent/ cream players will rise more often too

I’m definitely looking forward to 2022
 

Aramari

Senior List
Apr 9, 2002
249
696
Brighton
AFL Club
Carlton
I’m still backing Dow & LOB to make it. Still only 22, Voss has lots to work with and the club’s re-set gives players an opportunity to re-set their careers. Dow has showed enough to build on, and LOB offers a point of difference if he can bring it all together.

Kennedy & Cuningham, at 24 years, are a little more advanced but also poised to take another step.

These four, along with Kemp & Stocker, and throw in potentially Cerra & Hewett, offer a lot of promise if Voss can imprint his brand.
I'm positive about all the above with some luck and good guidance. Along with Cripps and Walsh, and hopefuls in Ramsey, Philp and Carroll we have enough midfield talent if to move on Setters, SPS and Fisher, and phase out Newnes and Ed.

I wouldn't overlook Honey's potential to make it as a midfielder who floats forward, in time. He could be special.
 

King Rupert

Rookie
Sep 23, 2016
49
148
AFL Club
Carlton
Mitch McGovern.

Does he stay or go? What is his best position?

If he can play 20 matches next season that would be great.
 

thebluenewdeal

Team Captain
Oct 23, 2020
349
630
AFL Club
Carlton
Mitch McGovern.

Does he stay or go? What is his best position?

If he can play 20 matches next season that would be great.
Let him play for next season and if it doesn’t pan out then we move him. He’ll only have a year left so his contract would be easier to move. Would be hard to find suitors right now.. maybe hawks or freo might need a tall but it’s a risk as his stocks are pretty low.
 

Red_man2008

Club Legend
Jan 2, 2009
1,084
2,588
Penguin
AFL Club
Carlton
It’s always hard to do these comparisons, so whilst I appreciate you went to the effort, you simply cannot line up all positions across the field (Harmes is nothing like McGovern, nor are Owies and Frisch alike), and in any event the Dees are far superior in pretty much every aspect of playing as a team to us that the comparison of individual talent is almost a mute point.

Finally even when we look at it from individual talent perspective it’s very subjective, for example I think Luke Jackson is already better than TDK, Angus Brayshaw is a lot better than Ed and as good as Weitering and Jones are they I do think May and Lever are the better combo.
Owies and Fritsch are exactly alike.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BlueTongue

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2009
4,500
5,359
The Void
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
VOSS IS BOSS
Last night, Ed Langdon at 76kg

Richmond threepeat, Edwards (78kg) and Lambert (77kg), Bolton with 2 flags at 77kg.

2018, Masten at 77kg

Can go back further, but I think the point is clear. Being on the lighter side does not preclude a player from being part of a successful midfield.

Agree you can't have a midfield entirely made up of the lighter types, who you surround them with is important. Balance is critical.
I really rate wirey, Rangey type players like Langdon, Simmo, Skinny Lappin.
There’s something special about them, they rarely get injured, have huge tanks, can kick a mile and have great smarts and foot skills. Sure not all, but it’s like they have worked extra hard to succeed all their footy lives, to make up for their light frames.
 

Accidental genius

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 4, 2018
8,990
14,402
AFL Club
Carlton
Does anyone get nervous that our list strategy might be centred around Cripps. Given his 20/21 campaigns and form, his current contract is way overs. If you go his 18/19 years it is unders.

But thinking back to SoS who I‘m a big fan of, the Dow pick seems a logical pick more than anything else to partner Cripps lack of speed. Everything at that time screamed Dow due to Cripps being the mainstay midfielder.

Fast forward to now and everyone is talking about Hewett who I don’t mind as a footballer one way or the other. Not that excited about him but everyone is going on about his defensive running abilities and tackling. The defensive running capabilities along with midfield area minutes smacks of covering for Cripps who can’t catch a snail on defensive transition.

if Carlton have players trying to cover a weak transition midfield if just won’t work. If a player like Hewett tracks after Cripps man, then the opposition will just flick the ball to Hewlett’s direct opponent…say on the wing if he players there.

Given the contract they gave Cripps. the 6 years bit, I’m concerned. Right now, he is poor on offence with rushed kicks and he is horrendous on defensive running. But we may be trying to build a side around him when it should be….find your 30+ possessions and a goal or we go with other midfielders. Carlton need to be agile in their thinking as things have changed a lot for Cripps since 2018.
Good post. You have raised a genuine concern with Cripps imo.
 

Blue__Balls

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
11,686
40,253
AFL Club
Carlton
Gold Coast

Have 38 of 38 Senior listed players contracted and will sign Mabol Chol..
So they will need to trade or delist 4 senior contracted players, to fit in Chol and 3x draft picks...

Could we pick some players off their list? If so who? (Rowell and top 10 players are a pipe dream)
Could we package our 2022 First and players for their pick 3 this year?
Looking through their list, there's just not a lot of names that jump out as both "gettable" and "worthwhile".

Was thinking maybe they'd have a spare mature KPD we could look at as depth, but Hombsch has retired, Day is injury-prone and Thompson hasn't been on the park since 2018 (and will be 31yo at the start of the next season).

Fiorini as a midfield option, perhaps. But if we get Hewett and Cerra across another pure mid (and one who isn't elite) doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose. Same to be said for Brodie.

Other areas of need for us - wings (Ellis is their best, and that ship has sailed), ruck (they struggled more than we did in 2021) and perhaps a small forward (Flanders appeals a bit, but is contracted for two more years, Rankine contracted til end of next year and surely no chance GC entertain trading him yet).
 

bmaurizio

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 11, 2004
5,665
7,384
Singapore
AFL Club
Carlton
Glascott... about 20kg sopping wet (actually about 71kg). He was a winger.
David Glascott was a very good footballer, ran all day, good aerobic capacity courageous, dared to tread where there’s wound not. We don’t have that mixture in a player on our list yet perhaps stocker may develop.
Can’t compare form of 70s /80s era to footy to modern day form , very different styles as it should be , heads are precious now , in those days one just knocked them out.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad