List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

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Just watched On the couch, and was quite interested in the talk around Port Adelaide, they mentioned Port only has 6 players (I think) brought in from other clubs, everyone else is from the various drafts, compare that to us.

Has targeting so many players from other clubs hurt us in any way? Does it put more pressure on the salary cap?
 

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Just rewatched the game and taking into account the whole year, don't think Zac Williams is the answer for us long term in midfield. Without time and space his kicks are mostly floaters that lack penetration. Doesn't have the sharpness in tight that Walsh and Crippa do and can't seem to find a ton of ball either. Pressure and effort are a tick. I think we will be better in the long run with him at HB and giving either Stocker or SPS a good run of games on ball.
 
Jeremias said:
You mean the guy who is out with a foot injury, not the knee injury he carried into the draft, which could literally happen to anyone?

"Wild risk". OK then.
Click to expand...
I think you were a bit condescending towards me to be honest. I also think most objective people would agree it was a wild risk. He dropped to where we got him for a reason. I truly hope he makes it but I'm not sure a team in our position was justified in taking such a risk. We need sure things or as close to sure things as possible. In my opinion of course.
 
Wickzki said:
I'm angry. I'll probably post some things that I'll be embarrassed about days/weeks from now. But honestly, fu** it.

Saad was the worst acquisition ever.

Pick 8. It is doubtful he was worth it let alone the other sh*t that comes with it.

Pushed Simmo out the door as we were into him.

Only goes one way (90% of the time)

Butchers it almost as often as he does something positive.

Marketing > football results.
Click to expand...
The problem with Saad is that we are playing too slowly and switching too much around our defensive 50. It beggars belief that we recruited him if that was Teague's game plan. We should be handballing quickly from defence to Saad so he can burst through the middle with run and carry. That is his go.

I think he will be good but we need to sort out how slow we move the ball
 
We have a better midfield then we are showing atm.
Williams isn’t match fit, he’s a beautiful kick, he’s mis firing cause he’s gassed, he’s a gun footballer and when he gets match fit, will be a weapon out of the middle, worst case scenario, if he doesn’t make it as a mid, we move him back to a half back flank and he brings that speed to the backline.
Martin is also a big part of our midfield dynamic, he brings attributes we are missing atm, one our best kicks if not the best kick in our team and cracks in really hard at the contest, both to win the footy and to tackle.
Add a fully fit Williams and Martin, to Cripps Walsh and Ed as core mids and it has a much better balance.

We really need one or ideal two of our young mids to step up into that group,
Dow Setterfield Lob Stocker Fisher SPS Cunningham
All these kids have talent and attributes that would give our midfield a more potent look, but it doesn’t look like the club thinks these kids are ready.
We’ve all seen some really impressive not just flash, but even entire games from all of these kids, but if a couple of those kids can start playing some consistent high level footy, we start looking like we are in a much better place.
 
Agree with your assessment, the problem is our young potential midfielders have not shown that they are capable of AFL standards, very little consistency , the odd flash in a game type of performances that ain’t going to get you a game in the engine room of a struggling team not to mention a quality team.
 
reubsblues said:
Imagine how good Harry McKay would be in a good side
Click to expand...

And imagine how good it would be if our supporters weren’t trying to get rid of our best players?

“Walsh should get out before we ruin him” was said a bunch of times on here after we lost to Brisbane. I don’t care to find out how good McKay would be in a “good side”.
 
Old navy said:
We have a better midfield then we are showing atm.
Williams isn’t match fit, he’s a beautiful kick, he’s mis firing cause he’s gassed, he’s a gun footballer and when he gets match fit, will be a weapon out of the middle, worst case scenario, if he doesn’t make it as a mid, we move him back to a half back flank and he brings that speed to the backline.
Martin is also a big part of our midfield dynamic, he brings attributes we are missing atm, one our best kicks if not the best kick in our team and cracks in really hard at the contest, both to win the footy and to tackle.
Add a fully fit Williams and Martin, to Cripps Walsh and Ed as core mids and it has a much better balance.

We really need one or ideal two of our young mids to step up into that group,
Dow Setterfield Lob Stocker Fisher SPS Cunningham
All these kids have talent and attributes that would give our midfield a more potent look, but it doesn’t look like the club thinks these kids are ready.
We’ve all seen some really impressive not just flash, but even entire games from all of these kids, but if a couple of those kids can start playing some consistent high level footy, we start looking like we are in a much better place.
Click to expand...
Hard to see which young player will step up into that group when Teague gives them no midfield minutes
 
DangerousD said:
Just watched On the couch, and was quite interested in the talk around Port Adelaide, they mentioned Port only has 6 players (I think) brought in from other clubs, everyone else is from the various drafts, compare that to us.

Has targeting so many players from other clubs hurt us in any way? Does it put more pressure on the salary cap?
Click to expand...

that’s all well and good when you can properly develop the kids you bring in. We generally butcher the kids we bring in, and the ones that do develop, the majority can’t even get out onto the field.
 
RAPPA said:
that’s all well and good when you can properly develop the kids you bring in. We generally butcher the kids we bring in, and the ones that do develop, the majority can’t even get out onto the field.
Click to expand...

That’s part of the point I’m making, by targeting these players from other clubs, does that hurt the development? You assume that the targeted players come in and are ahead in the pecking order compared to the guys already here, they may be given more opportunities in certain roles.

Someone posted a few days ago, LOB games and stats pre and post recruiting of Newnes, I think it’s something like he has only played -3 games since, now we aren’t challenging for final the last two years, would LOB be a better player now, if we had of just shown more faith?
 

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ThePenitentFaithfulBlue said:
The problem with Saad is that we are playing too slowly and switching too much around our defensive 50. It beggars belief that we recruited him if that was Teague's game plan. We should be handballing quickly from defence to Saad so he can burst through the middle with run and carry. That is his go.

I think he will be good but we need to sort out how slow we move the ball
Click to expand...
Our fwd line is a shambles at the moment.
 
Sorry long post alert... Please, read and let me know what you think we should do, as it took me ages :unsure:
Think if we are serious about a flag a small reset is all we need

Looking at our list demographics.
Positions & Ages;
Found it interesting, it starts to show where we need to list focus our draft/ trading and a possible realign/ mini rebuild around.

POSITIONPLAYERS
KPDWeitering, Jones & McDonald (Inj (Swing)
TALL DEFENDERMarchbank (Inj), Parks (Inj), Williamson, Kemp (Inj (Swing), Plowman
GENERAL DEFENDERSPS, Docherty, Stocker, Newman (Inj), Saad
INSIDE MIDFIELDERDow, Cripps, Kennedy, Williams, Walsh, Carroll (Inj), Curnow, Setterfield
OUTSIDE MIDFIELDERO'Brien, Cottrell, Philp (Inj), Ramsey, Newnes, Cuningham
RUCKDe Koning (Inj), Pittonet
KPFMcKay, Curnow (Inj), Casboult (Swing)
TALL FORWARDSilvagni (Inj(Swing), McGovern (Swing)
GENERAL FORWARDFogarty, Murphy, Betts, Martin (Inj), Fisher (Inj), Owies, Honey, Gibbons, Durdin

Injuries aside shows we are;

Key Position TALLS
  • KPD - Paper thin, Jones (31) next year, McDonald (Average), leaves Weitering only
  • Ruck - Paper thin, Pittonet & De Koning only
  • KPF - Paper thin, Casboult (31) next year, Curnow who knows when/if he comes back, leaves McKay only
We desperately need to trade/ draft some young KPD/KPF/Ruck, some options could be;
  • KPD - Sam De Konning (GEEL (20), Ben Mckay (NTH (24), Fischer McAsey (ADE (20)
  • Ruck - Callum Colman Jones (RICH (22)
  • KPF - Jarron Brander (WCE (23), Jake Riccardi (GWS (22)
TALLS
  • Defenders - Injuries have hurt development of Marchbank, Parks, Kemp. Otherwise we are well covered here
  • Forwards - Paper thin, Silvagni & McGovern
We need to look towards trade/ draft some young Tall Forwards, some options could be;
  • Darcy Fogarty (ADE (22)
MIDFIELDERS
  • Inside - We are flush with inside midfielders, maybe have to many
  • Outside - We are also flush with inside midfielders, maybe have to many
For the midfield we should only be looking at upgrades to the players we currently have. some options could be;
  • Inside - Rhylee West (WBD (21), Adam Cerra (FRE (22), Josh Dunkley (WBD (25), Tom Green (GWS (22)
  • Outside - Ed Richards (WBD (22), Zach Merrett (ESS (26)
GENERAL DEFENDERS & FORWARDS
  • General Defenders - We have adequate numbers and skill
  • General Forwards - We have adequate numbers and skill when all fit, may need 1 more
For the general forwards, we should only be looking at upgrades to the players we currently have. some options could be;
  • General Forwards - Jarrod Cameron (WCE (21), Patrick Lipinski (WBD (23)
Players and their age profile;
This is where it also get's interesting and you can see a trend emerge.

18-22Dow (22), O'Brien (22), Fogarty (22), De Koning (22), Stocker (21), Carroll (20), Kemp (20), Walsh (21), Fisher (21), Durdin (19), Parks (20), Ramsey (20), Philp (21), Honey (20), Setterfield (22)
23-25Silvagni (24), SPS (24), Kennedy (24), McKay (24), Marchbank (25), Weitering (24), C.Curnow (25), Cuninham (24), Pittonet (25), Williamson (23), Owies (24), Cottrell (22)
26-28Williams (27), Cripps (27), McGovern (27), Docherty (28), Plowman (27), Martin (27), Gibbons (26), Saad (27),
29-30Newman (29), Newnes (29)
30+Murphy (34), Jones (31), Betts (35), E. Curnow (32), Casboult (31)

OPINION
All our targeted, traded in players are all centered around the now and Patty Cripps.
Which is fine, what we already knew and aligned to our rebuild approach.

You can't deny, that our list has drastically improved from the start of the rebuild.
But even the staunchest of supporters would have to think that this is probably not a premiership list.
  • We are so thin, no depth for elite KPD, KPF & Rucks.
  • We need to improve our talent in the midfield
  • We need to improve our talent in the forward line
  • We need to say goodbye to ageing players
THE FIX
This is where opinion will divide. :eekv1:
If we do this, we would have to do it this year..

Think anyone in the 26-30+ categories, that want to move on, for more money or a premiership chance we should let go. Only for positive outcomes for us..
If they stay, they will no longer be the focus and be around 30 when we contend

This would be a mini 2 year reset whilst still being competitive.
No drafting or trading of players over 24-25

We would then have the currency and money, to build the team around McKay, Walsh and Weitering going forward.
It would;
  • Give the club extra few years development that we desperately need
  • Show a strong direction
  • Still keep us competitive
  • Allow us to contend for 5+ years
  • Allow us to stay competitive forever (Sydney Style)
Captains and Leadership Group
  • Captain - Walsh or Weitering
  • Vice Captain - the other of Walsh or Weitering
  • Leadership Group - Walsh, Weitering, SPS, Silvagni & Fisher
 
Last edited:
DangerousD said:
Just watched On the couch, and was quite interested in the talk around Port Adelaide, they mentioned Port only has 6 players (I think) brought in from other clubs, everyone else is from the various drafts, compare that to us.

Has targeting so many players from other clubs hurt us in any way? Does it put more pressure on the salary cap?
Click to expand...
I have the power with 10 players on their list from other clubs, Burton, Motlop, Rockliff, McKenzie, fantasia, Allir, Dixon, Mayes, Lycett and Goldsack.
In fact one of their main reasons for Improvement this year is getting in Fantasia and Allir.
 
DangerousD said:
That’s part of the point I’m making, by targeting these players from other clubs, does that hurt the development? You assume that the targeted players come in and are ahead in the pecking order compared to the guys already here, they may be given more opportunities in certain roles.

Someone posted a few days ago, LOB games and stats pre and post recruiting of Newnes, I think it’s something like he has only played -3 games since, now we aren’t challenging for final the last two years, would LOB be a better player now, if we had of just shown more faith?
Click to expand...
Even with Newnes there is a wing position open for anyone who isn’t completely hopeless. It’s a really tough one to know because hundreds of players get to that 50-100 games and still don’t go on with it or don’t improve anyway.
It’s also hard to know if we had played LOB, Dow, SPS etc on ball, wing etc and were a much worse side that we wouldn’t do to Walsh which some think we have done to Cripps by giving them no support.
We also don’t know whether prioritising them and giving them games would make us much less competitive and hinder development of the likes of Walsh, Fisher, Weitering, McKay. It’s likely too if we were a much poorer side Fogarty, Williams and Saad may have had no interest in us and that maybe someone like Harry would be more likely to look at other clubs offers.
For me atm I think people are so caught up with what we are doing with the older guys they aren’t seeing what we are actually trying to do with the younger players. Abit of can’t see the forest for the trees.
 
TENACIOUS said:
Sorry long post alert... Please, read and let me know what you think we should do, as it took me ages :unsure:
Think if we are serious about a flag a small reset is all we need

Looking at our list demographics.
Positions & Ages;
Found it interesting, it starts to show where we need to list focus our draft/ trading and a possible realign/ mini rebuild around.

POSITIONPLAYERS
KPDWeitering, Jones & McDonald (Inj (Swing)
TALL DEFENDERMarchbank (Inj), Parks (Inj), Williamson, Kemp (Inj (Swing), Plowman
GENERAL DEFENDERSPS, Docherty, Stocker, Newman (Inj), Saad
INSIDE MIDFIELDERDow, Cripps, Kennedy, Williams, Walsh, Carroll (Inj), Curnow, Setterfield
OUTSIDE MIDFIELDERO'Brien, Cottrell, Philp (Inj), Ramsey, Newnes, Cuningham
RUCKDe Koning (Inj), Pittonet
KPFMcKay, Curnow (Inj), Casboult (Swing)
TALL FORWARDSilvagni (Inj(Swing), McGovern (Swing)
GENERAL FORWARDFogarty, Murphy, Betts, Martin (Inj), Fisher (Inj), Owies, Honey, Gibbons, Durdin

Injuries aside shows we are;

Key Position TALLS
  • KPD - Paper thin, Jones (31) next year, McDonald (Average), leaves Weitering only
  • Ruck - Paper thin, Pittonet & De Koning only
  • KPF - Paper thin, Casboult (31) next year, Curnow who knows when/if he comes back, leaves McKay only
We desperately need to trade/ draft some young KPD/KPF/Ruck, some options could be;
  • KPD - Sam De Konning (GEEL (20), Ben Mckay (NTH (24), Fischer McAsey (ADE (20)
  • Ruck - Callum Colman Jones (RICH (22)
  • KPF - Jarron Brander (WCE (23), Jake Riccardi (GWS (22)
TALLS
  • Defenders - Injuries have hurt development of Marchbank, Parks, Kemp. Otherwise we are well covered here
  • Forwards - Paper thin, Silvagni & McGovern
We need to look towards trade/ draft some young Tall Forwards, some options could be;
  • Darcy Fogarty (ADE (22)
MIDFIELDERS
  • Inside - We are flush with inside midfielders, maybe have to many
  • Outside - We are also flush with inside midfielders, maybe have to many
For the midfield we should only be looking at upgrades to the players we currently have. some options could be;
  • Inside - Rhylee West (WBD (21), Adam Cerra (FRE (22), Josh Dunkley (WBD (25), Tom Green (GWS (22)
  • Outside - Ed Richards (WBD (22), Zach Merrett (ESS (26)
GENERAL DEFENDERS & FORWARDS
  • General Defenders - We have adequate numbers and skill
  • General Forwards - We have adequate numbers and skill when all fit, may need 1 more
For the general forwards, we should only be looking at upgrades to the players we currently have. some options could be;
  • General Forwards - Jarrod Cameron (WCE (21), Patrick Lipinski (WBD (23)
Players and their age profile;
This is where it also get's interesting and you can see a trend emerge.

18-22Dow (22), O'Brien (22), Fogarty (22), De Koning (22), Stocker (21), Carroll (20), Kemp (20), Walsh (21), Fisher (21), Durdin (19), Parks (20), Ramsey (20), Philp (21), Honey (20), Setterfield (22)
23-25Silvagni (24), SPS (24), Kennedy (24), McKay (24), Marchbank (25), Weitering (24), C.Curnow (25), Cuninham (24), Pittonet (25), Williamson (23), Owies (24), Cottrell (22)
26-28Williams (27), Cripps (27), McGovern (27), Docherty (28), Plowman (27), Martin (27), Gibbons (26), Saad (27),
29-30Newman (29), Newnes (29)
30+Murphy (34), Jones (31), Betts (35), E. Curnow (32), Casboult (31)

OPINION
All our targeted, traded in players are all centered around the now and Patty Cripps.
Which is fine, what we already knew and aligned to our rebuild approach.

You can't deny, that our list has drastically improved from the start of the rebuild.
But even the staunchest of supporters would have to think that this is probably not a premiership list.
  • We are so thin, no depth for elite KPD, KPF & Rucks.
  • We need to improve our talent in the midfield
  • We need to improve our talent in the forward line
  • We need to say goodbye to ageing players
THE FIX
This is where opinion will divide. :eekv1:
If we do this, we would have to do it this year..

Think anyone in the 26-30+ categories, that want to move on, for more money or a premiership chance we should let go. Only for positive outcomes for us..
If they stay, they will no longer be the focus and be around 30 when we contend

This would be a mini 2 year reset whilst still being competitive.
No drafting or trading of players over 24-25

We would then have the currency and money, to build the team around McKay, Walsh and Weitering going forward.
It would;
  • Give the club extra few years development that we desperately need
  • Show a strong direction
  • Still keep us competitive
  • Allow us to contend for 5+ years
  • Allow us to stay competitive forever (Sydney Style)
Captains and Leadership Group
  • Captain - Walsh or Weitering
  • Vice Captain - the other of Walsh or Weitering
  • Leadership Group - Walsh, Weitering, SPS, Silvagni & Fisher
Click to expand...
Well done! lots of thought and effort went into this. I would say 29 and over. 26-30 is too much cutting. Will leave us exposed
 
Bleez40 said:
Just rewatched the game and taking into account the whole year, don't think Zac Williams is the answer for us long term in midfield. Without time and space his kicks are mostly floaters that lack penetration. Doesn't have the sharpness in tight that Walsh and Crippa do and can't seem to find a ton of ball either. Pressure and effort are a tick. I think we will be better in the long run with him at HB and giving either Stocker or SPS a good run of games on ball.
Click to expand...

Could hurt our salary cap if this is the case. Doc, Saad, Williams, all of decent cash playing off HB.
Balance of the team salary wise becomes a little skewed.

Having said that im not ready to call his days in the midfield over
 
Was speaking with my brother this morning -- and we were talking whether SOS had that much belief Ben would fulfil that fullback roll is why he never took another key back -- how is he going with the bullants ?
 
Jimmyonesix said:
Was speaking with my brother this morning -- and we were talking whether SOS had that much belief Ben would fulfil that fullback roll is why he never took another key back -- how is he going with the bullants ?
Click to expand...
9 touches, 2 behinds and 2 marks last week so must be playing predominantly as a forward, but 2 rebound 50s might mean he played a quarter down back or half half?

On CPH1877 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Jimmae said:
When Newman isn't slowing us down, he's leaving us defensively exposed. He's a backup and he'll either be development coaching or in the VFL next year.

Williamson is the future, and that's the investment we should be making. Kid is meticulous with everything he does, just needs support.
Click to expand...
Willo may be the future but he's been horrible this year. If Newman's form warrants it, he's in.
 
Juddernaut08 said:
Willo may be the future but he's been horrible this year. If Newman's form warrants it, he's in.
Click to expand...
He was getting thrown around. He's fine off half-back, and our development of players is arguably the worst in the league, so it's odd to expect him to suddenly become a better midfielder when he was an elite role player in the TAC.
 
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