List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Arr0w]

We already have young mid prospects like Carroll and Philp who are waiting in the wings.

25 on kpd imo

This, that pick is in a sweet spot for a KPP

 

[JuddgementDay]

This, that pick is in a sweet spot for a KPP

We’ll get a KPP there, the quality/ right choice is the challenge

 

[Arr0w]

At 25 you might get Jacob van Rooyen, Rhett Bazzo, Jack Williams, Leek Alleer or Toby Conway (Ruckman). Quite a few talls around that range.

Bazzo will be gone by then, Van Rooyen might be there but doubt it.

Alleer, Williams( underrated) will be still there at 25.

Polson and Taylor are other KPP's that are underrated

 

[Arr0w]

Young's ready enough. More ready than whichever draftee gets pulled in.

Also Marchbank and Parks and even Plowman can cover a back

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Can we stop naming Marchbank, Parks, Plow as KPP options

It's one of the reasons we targeted Young

 

[Metalcrusher]

Can we stop naming Marchbank, Parks, Plow as KPP options

It's one of the reasons we targeted Young

What about Pitto on a HBF?

 

[Arr0w]

What about Pitto on a HBF?

Small forward

 

[katmanblue]

His chasing efforts are about as poor as I have seen. His all round defensive game is really poor, often see his man meters forward of him when the opposition break. The game has moved well past players who don't defend/pressure well.

A lot to learn from Melbourne in how they applied pressure in the preliminary final and grand final. It was simple, the ball is in your area you go as hard as you can at it. The entire midfield had the will and the ability to get to contests, lose balls and opponents that many of our blokes either couldn't get to or wouldn't try hard enough to get to. This here is Carlton's biggest issue. IMO these two games were massive eye openers. You have a midfield of Kennedy, Cripps and Dow they are down the very bottom for their ability to do these things while Melbourne are outstanding at the top. The frustrating thing with Dow is he has no excuse. Cripps and Kennedy are slow and lack agility, Dow doesn't but he doesn't do what the Melbourne midfield do so well.

IMO with Dow he needs to focus on effort based football and if he gets that right the rest will follow. I'm sure sure the new coach will have ideas here.



Yes and no. A lot of what is wrong with his game is effort based. IMO effort comes from the leadership and culture around the players, which I believe is lacking at Carlton, but it also must come internally. He's played plenty of footy in the midfield, not uncommon for young players to play on a flank while they are developing. Probably should have played a lot more VFL however we have been extremely poor and young players have been exposed to senior footy earlier than they would have at stronger clubs. I think Dow has been overcoached, his role in the midfield is not one he has been able to grasp and a lot of that comes down to having players ahead of him such as Cripps and Walsh. His footy IQ IMO is poor so he's not flexible in what role he can play and IMO is suited to a simple see ball get ball role. Go hard at it if it's in your area. Run hard back when the opposition get it. That kind of thing. Does this work in the highly structure based game that is AFL though?

I reckon his efforts aren't actually that bad.

Again, I think the issue is lack of smarts and inability to read play.

If the ball's in front of him, he can go and get it. If it's not, then it takes a while for him to process what's going on and his opponent almost always has a few seconds on him because he reacts so slowly. That why it looks like he's always chasing tail.

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[katmanblue]

I'm suggesting he's an average limited footballer.

I think he's just the opposite of smart.

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[therubbernub]

If only Harry had Fevola's flakey personality and became too much of a handful for the club... it's all relative. For the record, I liked Fev at a time when it was fashionable to criticise him and misinterpret what motivated his brain farts. However; Fev, Carlton, and ultimate success was not exactly a match made in heaven. Harry just came off of a Coleman Medal and AA selection and will only get better so I don't know what you people are on about. By the way, Fev's speed over the first five metres was elite so it wasn't all 'footy brain'.

He had a fair set of mitts on him as well. Also his conversion rate from outside 50 was phenomenal- he could slot them in from anywhere

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Small forward

He runs through the midfield, ffs.

 

[norway blue]

The good thing is Gov , Charlie and Harry saw the season out.


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[DangerousD]

Always excuses and blaming the club.

Never on the player and their limitations.

Could it be that when you draft players from the bottom of the ladder side their ability is overrated because they are standing out in a poor team?

Werent Geelong the bottom side, when Walsh was drafted?

Edit, they finished 10th out of 12.

 

[therubbernub]

Dow has a long way to go and will have to make it next season or he will most likely be done.

The biggest issue with Dow is he lacks footy IQ and has absolutely no defensive aspects of his game. He's always out of position, doesn't get much of the ball in open play and doesn't go when he has to go.

Dow has some tools such as speed and he is ok with the ball in hand, he has a good highlights reel but that's it and this is the issue.

I think he's been poorly coached, he needs to be a see ball get ball player, he's not quick enough between the ears to be a clever player. He's often standing when he should be going and a lot of the time appears as if he doesn't know what to do.

Dow needs to get better and knowing when to go for a start and significantly improve his defensive efforts before even considering him as an ok player.

I think for his age his possession numbers are ok however his defensive game gets a 1 out of 10 and that's a guy who has pace and should be able to do defensive acts such as chase chasing and making contests.

What we need to see from Dow is more involvement, more competing, efforts to get to where the ball is to make a contest, chasing the opposition with intent and repeat efforts. If he brings this to his game he won't have to be getting 30 possessions every week however this is what he lacks and this is why he goes missing so often.

Will he make it? I don't know, I am leaning towards no but we will see. A new coach coming in and he's another year older he has an opportunity to get better. I just don't hold high hopes for players who aren't really good when it comes to the defensive aspects of the game.

If he's going to make it you work on him making sure when the ball is in his area it must be a contest and repeat efforts and you work on his chasing and defensive game. Strip his game back to basic footy where if the ball is in your area you go hard at it until it's not then you run to position. Work on him getting to contests, not over thinking and competing. But this I feel will be done in the VFL until he really comes on.

Who knows what Teague's instructions were. Clearly DT was an offence first coach. Perhaps his instructions to Dow were to play to his offensive strengths and let others do the defending- leaving said defending players hanging out to dry. He did this to our backline time and time again so its not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[Coxy101]

Bazzo will be gone by then, Van Rooyen might be there but doubt it.

Alleer, Williams( underrated) will be still there at 25.

Polson and Taylor are other KPP's that are underrated

Williams had some good patches today I think he will go 20-30 range, Polson took some good strong marks around half forward and kicked a couple of good long balls outside 50 that linked up a couple of good team goals, the kid has an impressive left boot on him to. WA have some serious prospects this year.

 

[Arr0w]

Dow has a long way to go and will have to make it next season or he will most likely be done.

The biggest issue with Dow is he lacks footy IQ and has absolutely no defensive aspects of his game. He's always out of position, doesn't get much of the ball in open play and doesn't go when he has to go.

Dow has some tools such as speed and he is ok with the ball in hand, he has a good highlights reel but that's it and this is the issue.

I think he's been poorly coached, he needs to be a see ball get ball player, he's not quick enough between the ears to be a clever player. He's often standing when he should be going and a lot of the time appears as if he doesn't know what to do.

Dow needs to get better and knowing when to go for a start and significantly improve his defensive efforts before even considering him as an ok player.

I think for his age his possession numbers are ok however his defensive game gets a 1 out of 10 and that's a guy who has pace and should be able to do defensive acts such as chase chasing and making contests.

What we need to see from Dow is more involvement, more competing, efforts to get to where the ball is to make a contest, chasing the opposition with intent and repeat efforts. If he brings this to his game he won't have to be getting 30 possessions every week however this is what he lacks and this is why he goes missing so often.

Will he make it? I don't know, I am leaning towards no but we will see. A new coach coming in and he's another year older he has an opportunity to get better. I just don't hold high hopes for players who aren't really good when it comes to the defensive aspects of the game.

If he's going to make it you work on him making sure when the ball is in his area it must be a contest and repeat efforts and you work on his chasing and defensive game. Strip his game back to basic footy where if the ball is in your area you go hard at it until it's not then you run to position. Work on him getting to contests, not over thinking and competing. But this I feel will be done in the VFL until he really comes on.

Good analysis

I agree his game should be stripped back to basics, see ball get ball. Greatest concern I have had for Dow, is a lack of versatility/2nd position

 

[Arr0w]

Williams had some good patches today I think he will go 20-30 range, Polson took some good strong marks around half forward and kicked a couple of good long balls outside 50 that linked up a couple of good team goals, the kid has an impressive left boot on him to. WA have some serious prospects this year.

Williams is an interesting prospect, many believe he won't make it long term, but I disagree. While not overly quick or agile, he is a workhorse, who constantly hits up on longish leads and can chopout in the rock

I really like his work ethic

Thoughts on Luke Taylor?

 

[Coona Blues]

Williams is an interesting prospect, many believe he won't. Wake it long term, but I disagree. While not overly quick or agile, he is a workhorse, who constantly hits up on longish leads and can chopout in the rock

I really like his work ethic

Thoughts on Luke Taylor?

Wait a year for Luke Taylor Arr0w. If fit will be top 10 next year. Made the same mistake myself earlier in the year. In an era when game speed is an issue, the Williams deficiencies will be telling “pedestrian” defenders without closing speed are up against it, as are forwards who can’t get separation. Workhorse is a good description, but will need exceptional game craft at the top level.

Is a “trap” year for KPP WA boys only played on some under sized SA boys and mostly Colts kids. I have loved the prospect of Josh Cripps, but has been shown up recently. Only question remaining is if his recent struggles are due to being cooked after a shorter than prescribed rehab from ACL to try to gain draft relevance. Some very impressive performances earlier, but again at colt’s level where size is important. Would not want to be a recruiter with the current lack of relevant games.

Taking Young and retaining McDonald will almost certainly become a godsend.

 

[Arr0w]

Wait a year for Luke Taylor Arr0w. If fit will be top 10 next year. Made the same mistake myself earlier in the year. In an era when game speed is an issue, the Williams deficiencies will be telling “pedestrian” defenders without closing speed are up against it, as are forwards who can’t get separation. Workhorse is a good description, but will need exceptional game craft at the top level.

Is a “trap” year for KPP WA boys only played on some under sized SA boys and mostly Colts kids. I have loved the prospect of Josh Cripps, but has been shown up recently. Only question remaining is if his recent struggles are due to being cooked after a shorter than prescribed rehab from ACL to try to gain draft relevance. Some very impressive performances earlier, but again at colt’s level where size is important. Would not want to be a recruiter with the current lack of relevant games.

Taking Young and retaining McDonald will almost certainly become a godsend.

Young and keeping Omac would be sound list management decisions

Taylor will need time, but could be as good as any KPP after Bazzo

I see William's as a poor man's Lynch. Has strong hands, competes well, essentially a cheap 2nd string forward ruck that doesn't lose many contests

 

[Coona Blues]

Young and keeping Omac would be sound list management decisions

Taylor will need time, but could be as good as any KPP after Bazzo

I see William's as a poor man's Lynch. Has strong hands, competes well, essentially a cheap 2nd string forward ruck that doesn't lose many contests

Taylor will need time because he is underage. Too good to be overlooked by draft watchers despite missing almost all of season. Bazzo the only one I would take at our pick. Unlikely to get there, but not impossible, opinions are very divided, recruiters may feel safer taking mids and smalls.

 

[Arr0w]

Taylor will need time because he is underage. Too good to be overlooked by draft watchers despite missing almost all of season. Bazzo the only one I would take at our pick. Unlikely to get there, but not impossible, opinions are very divided, recruiters may feel safer taking mids and smalls.

That's why Taylor is appealing, as long as that knee has healed well, rate him better than his brother at the same stage.

Agreed, Bazzo likely to be gone

Van Rooyen might still be there, might. But I really like his agility, speed and naturally aggressive nature. While slightly undersize for a modern KPD, has similarities to May, who could also have an impact forward

 

[Coxy101]

Williams is an interesting prospect, many believe he won't. Wake it long term, but I disagree. While not overly quick or agile, he is a workhorse, who constantly hits up on longish leads and can chopout in the rock

I really like his work ethic

Thoughts on Luke Taylor?

He Has has the tools in the cabinet, had a ok start to the season, I think if he puts in the work good things will come to him.

 

[Blue Bloods]

I think Dow as a 23-27 year old is suited to a true inside mid role. Has a good hand pass and strong legs to hold his ground.

What confuses things is he has the speed that a hybrid or outside mid has. This leads us to play him as an outside mid most of the time due to Cripps Being preferred inside.

Outside mid is not really Dow’s go due to a poor weighted kick, average afl IQ and terrible terrible turning speed when opposition has the ball.

His decision making in the heat of pressure isn’t that great for mine. So a role of see ball get ball would really help and then lessen the need for rebound defensive runs which is his weakness.

The curse we currently have at Carlton is Cripps, Setterfield, Stocker, Kennedy and Dow all are ‘best placed’ as an inside midfielder.

Even more of a curse is that the club sees Cripps untouchable in that role when he has been terrible for 2 seasons. This faith stalls Stocker and Dow.

Not sure you can call Cripps a curse on the club and terrible for 2 seasons in his role.

Yes he is down from his best of a few years ago but that was from an incredible high, almost the best player in the whole competition.

His last two years have been down compared to those highs for sure, but if you compare his last two years with other inside mids I bet his stats stack up.

Edit. Was hoping someone else looked up the stats
Cripps 2020 Centre Clearance 1st, Clearances 3rd, Contested Possession 9th
Cripps 2021 Centre Clearance 17th, Clearance 28th Contested Possession 20th

2021 was from 20 games, Oliver, Bont and some others has 25 games

Better than anybody at Carlton including Walsh. And I believe he was playing injured most the year.

 

[Blue Bloods]

He had a fair set of mitts on him as well. Also his conversion rate from outside 50 was phenomenal- he could slot them in from anywhere

Fev also got a bad rap for not chasing and tackling, but I remember reading in the prospectus he was the leading tackler inside 50 in the competition. He just looked bad when he knew he couldn’t catch them and just stopped.

Loved the Fev.

 

[Ninja Worrier]

This, that pick is in a sweet spot for a KPP

What happened to trade for need and draft best player? Your words.

In a covid affected year I want the best player who gets through, not a KPP you're not sure will cut it at all level

 

[Arr0w]

What happened to trade for need and draft best player? Your words.

In a covid affected year I want the best player who gets through, not a KPP you're not sure will cut it at all level

I haven't deviated from that midset/strategy. I have elaborated on this a number of times. Depending on the quality of the draft, at a point, you can still target best available while satisfying needs

Unless there is a significant slider of mid sized players, players I rate in that zone are talls