Test 2021 New Zealand Tour of England (2 Tests)

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Maybe Tomorrow

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Yeah, why isn't this being played at Lords? Nice ground but Southampton hardly screams Home of Cricket.
Official reason " The governing council reached the decision of moving the final to Southampton, and out of London, to 'minimise' the impact of the coronavirus-induced pandemic."

Real reason - more likely to be a turner than Lords, which obviously suits India. Nothing can be done of course, as it's India. Hopefully the tie-breaker isn't most boundaries again lol.
 

KiwiRoo

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Now here is an enigma. Henry has a diabolical Test average.. around @50. yet I rated him the best of the BC bowlers in last Test. On that performance I'd be seriously considering him for the third quick role.

Hes been pretty disappointing the last few years to be honest. I really rated him when i first saw him bowl. He was quick enough, moved the ball etc
But just didn't get enough balls in the right area and his pace has slipped a bit

I know its a bit tough on him, but hes no chance of displacing Boult, Southee, Jamieson or Wagner
 

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KiwiRoo

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Yeah I agree, Wagner plays over Boult if that's the choice.

I suspect the ICC (who are in charge of the ground for this test) will be under huge pressure to produce a "fair" pitch (i.e. a road that has some turn later) with no grass on it. India won't allow anything that helps our strength, they've already had the venue moved.

I think our bowlers will trouble their batters, especially Jamieson. Not so confident in our batting, as usual a lot depends on Williamson. Really need a big hundred from someone in the first innings.

we've been lucky for some time that normally someone in the top 6 gets a hundred.. Nicholls, Latham, Taylor and Watling have been pretty consistent, and Conway is just icing on a pretty consistent cake

India wont mind a bit of grass on the pitch with their seamers either, so hopefully a normal English track is prepared
 

Doss

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Hes been pretty disappointing the last few years to be honest. I really rated him when i first saw him bowl. He was quick enough, moved the ball etc
But just didn't get enough balls in the right area and his pace has slipped a bit

I know its a bit tough on him, but hes no chance of displacing Boult, Southee, Jamieson or Wagner
Henry is a good bowler but he's a class below those four. I believe he'd have otherwise carved out a decent Test career. Who knows, he may still if Wagner and Southee aren't around much longer.
 

Maybe Tomorrow

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we've been lucky for some time that normally someone in the top 6 gets a hundred.. Nicholls, Latham, Taylor and Watling have been pretty consistent, and Conway is just icing on a pretty consistent cake

India wont mind a bit of grass on the pitch with their seamers either, so hopefully a normal English track is prepared
Oh yeah, it's a solid top 6. I was very pleased with how Rosco played in the last test, good to see him grind it out. Him or KW are the most likely to play the big innings. It would be amazing if he got a hundred in what I suspect is his last test.

Conway is a gun, so lucky to have him.

India's seamers are good no doubt, but I still think it would favour us more if it was a seaming pitch, as their batsman don't deal with it that well.
 

KiwiRoo

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Henry is a good bowler but he's a class below those four. I believe he'd have otherwise carved out a decent Test career. Who knows, he may still if Wagner and Southee aren't around much longer.
Yeah a bit unlucky that Jamieson came from nowhere too and hes just too good to leave out now. Some of his deliveries last summer were just unplayable
 

Park cricketer

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Official reason " The governing council reached the decision of moving the final to Southampton, and out of London, to 'minimise' the impact of the coronavirus-induced pandemic."

Real reason - more likely to be a turner than Lords, which obviously suits India. Nothing can be done of course, as it's India. Hopefully the tie-breaker isn't most boundaries again lol.
It's not like Southampton is a bunsen. Taunton is the most spin friendly wicket while at Southampton, pacers have been more successful than spinners in the past few years. Holder dismantled England in their last series at the Rose bowl and Anderson and Broad were amongst the wickets in the tests against Pakistan while the spinners struggled.

I would have liked the final at Lords too, but the kiwis already playing a 2 match warm up series is an advantage in itself. Further the experience of already playing a test in the venue of the final in the 2 match series would be unfair to the opposition.
 

swingdog

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It's not like Southampton is a bunsen. Taunton is the most spin friendly wicket while at Southampton, pacers have been more successful than spinners in the past few years. Holder dismantled England in their last series at the Rose bowl and Anderson and Broad were amongst the wickets in the tests against Pakistan while the spinners struggled.

I would have liked the final at Lords too, but the kiwis already playing a 2 match warm up series is an advantage in itself. Further the experience of already playing a test in the venue of the final in the 2 match series would be unfair to the opposition.
Should have played the England-NZ first test in Southampton then.

I always thought the final was supposed to be at Lords because of the prestige of the ground. It's a bit rubbish playing in Southampton though better than what the ICC probably wanted: Abu Dhabi.
 

Gethelred

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dont think there's much chance of Wagner missing MT, he just gets quality batsmen out and has for quite some time. I think Boult would miss before him.
He bowls as many overs in a spell as a spinner anyway !
Wagner is NZ's plan B; if plan A (Bolt and Southee getting the ball to swing around corners) isn't working, he comes on and plays the 'yeah, you're okay at playing the short ball, but let's see you play the short slow off cutter then the quicker skiddy leg cutter, oh here comes the cross seam that bounces higher than you thought it would!' game, and gets wickets with it.

It's truly kind of a brilliant tactic. He can bowl his cutters on a good length, in and outswing when the ball's going (although both Southee and Bolt are better at it) and he can literally bowl from the first over until the last over. He's both a workhorse and a strike weapon.

If they drop him there's just plan A, and only Australia are dumb enough to go into an important game without plan B.
 

Park cricketer

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Should have played the England-NZ first test in Southampton then.

I always thought the final was supposed to be at Lords because of the prestige of the ground. It's a bit rubbish playing in Southampton though better than what the ICC probably wanted: Abu Dhabi.
It was scheduled initially at Lords. But there was the small matter of a covid outbreak in London, hence it was decided that it would be better to schedule the final inside a biosecure bubble environment with the players accommodated in star hotels inside the premises of the stadium. And only Southampton and Old Trafford have hotels attached to them but Southampton was preferred as the Ageas bowl is situated in the outskirts of the city as opposed to Old Trafford and most importantly, Manchester has been heavily affected by covid unlike Southampton which has just a fraction of the cases.
 

Maybe Tomorrow

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It was scheduled initially at Lords. But there was the small matter of a covid outbreak in London, hence it was decided that it would be better to schedule the final inside a biosecure bubble environment with the players accommodated in star hotels inside the premises of the stadium. And only Southampton and Old Trafford have hotels attached to them but Southampton was preferred as the Ageas bowl is situated in the outskirts of the city as opposed to Old Trafford and most importantly, Manchester has been heavily affected by covid unlike Southampton which has just a fraction of the cases.
It was changed in March mate. NZ have been there for weeks, they went through quarantine too. India could have done it.

It is what it is, I'm not moaning, but be realistic, there is only one reason it got moved.
 

Park cricketer

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It was changed in March mate. NZ have been there for weeks, they went through quarantine too. India could have done it.

It is what it is, I'm not moaning, but be realistic, there is only one reason it got moved.
But you're talking with the benefit of hindsight. Nobody really knew in March whether the covid crisis would get better or worsen in London. The decision was made in March with regards to the probability of another flare-up of the virus in the UK leading to a lockdown. They deemed it prudent to hold the match behind closed doors at a venue with an on-site hotel.
 

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swingdog

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But you're talking with the benefit of hindsight. Nobody really knew in March whether the covid crisis would get better or worsen in London. The decision was made in March with regards to the probability of another flare-up of the virus in the UK leading to a lockdown. They deemed it prudent to hold the match behind closed doors at a venue with an on-site hotel.
Then, why did they stick with Lords for the NZ test? Not like Indian players were moving to a more Covid-dangerous place when visiting the UK.
 

Maybe Tomorrow

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But you're talking with the benefit of hindsight. Nobody really knew in March whether the covid crisis would get better or worsen in London. The decision was made in March with regards to the probability of another flare-up of the virus in the UK leading to a lockdown. They deemed it prudent to hold the match behind closed doors at a venue with an on-site hotel.
We'll just have to dis-agree on this I guess. Hopefully it's a good game!
 

jle101

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Have to feel NZ are going into the WTC final as red hot favourites here. That two-Test series against England is worth its weight in gold as far as acclimatization is concerned.
 

BaggyGreens

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Oh yeah, it's a solid top 6. I was very pleased with how Rosco played in the last test, good to see him grind it out. Him or KW are the most likely to play the big innings. It would be amazing if he got a hundred in what I suspect is his last test.

Conway is a gun, so lucky to have him.

India's seamers are good no doubt, but I still think it would favour us more if it was a seaming pitch, as their batsman don't deal with it that well.
Reckon Roscos days are numbered. Mediocre against us and form not that much better in these two. I saw him play and miss at about four of six balls over two consecutive overs. At least four wild slashes were aerial tho there were a couple of quality drives plus drop kicks off Root. Flashes of his prime.
 
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BaggyGreens

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India's seamers are good no doubt, but I still think it would favour us more if it was a seaming pitch, as their batsman don't deal with it that well.

Agree. Plus any excessive bounce or movement in the air and all Kiwi bowlers can swing the cherry.
 

corbies

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Have to feel NZ are going into the WTC final as red hot favourites here. That two-Test series against England is worth its weight in gold as far as acclimatization is concerned.
I dunno I reckon the India intra-squad match at the moment would be better prep than playing this England side.
 

Lynchy04

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Ashes will be 5 nil not even close . Probably the worst English side since the 90s actually it’s worse. Not a single genuine star bat in the line up. Anderson is a little medium pace cannon fodder in these conditions.

They won’t even be remotely competitive.
 

magpiemaniac44

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Ashes will be 5 nil not even close . Probably the worst English side since the 90s actually it’s worse. Not a single genuine star bat in the line up. Anderson is a little medium pace cannon fodder in these conditions.

They won’t even be remotely competitive.
They're top order looks shaky, middle order is solid when they decide to be (Root, Stokes, Buttler), they've got no genuine spinner, they're quicks bar Archer are no good over here either.
 

PhatBoy

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Ashes will be 5 nil not even close . Probably the worst English side since the 90s actually it’s worse. Not a single genuine star bat in the line up. Anderson is a little medium pace cannon fodder in these conditions.

They won’t even be remotely competitive.
I don’t disagree with your basic premise but root is the equal of any batsman they had in the 90s.

their best batsmen in the 90s were Gooch and Smith and they only played half the decade. Root is better than Thorpe, Hussain, Atherton and Stewart.
 
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