2021 NON AFL Thread - finance, ratings, participation etc.

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Gigantor

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May 13, 2012
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Ive been told the delays are the Victorian Government holding up approvals
We don't know who the investors are behind this bid, they have never been made public.
The aborted Southern Sydney bid actually had similar intentions (of getting access to Sydney land to develop), and from memory, that was a Chinese property group.
I've often wondered whether Chinese investors are behind the WU bid as well.
Given current diplomatic and trade sensitivities, maybe more the one tier of government is wanting to take a closer look at what's behind all of this.
 

The_Wookie

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Jul 2, 2010
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We don't know who the investors are behind this bid, they have never been made public.
The aborted Southern Sydney bid actually had similar intentions (of getting access to Sydney land to develop), and from memory, that was a Chinese property group.
I've often wondered whether Chinese investors are behind the WU bid as well.
Given current diplomatic and trade sensitivities, maybe more the one tier of government is wanting to take a closer look at what's behind all of this.
While we dont know this, a former mayor of Wyndham has told me its the state government holding it up (in part because the developer/club wants the railway station moved to right outside the stadium).
 

Cmarsh

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 23, 2012
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While we dont know this, a former mayor of Wyndham has told me its the state government holding it up (in part because the developer/club wants the railway station moved to right outside the stadium).
Or another way to put it the club/developer is making a demand the the govt can't promise.
 

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Kwality

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business/dataroom/private-equity-bids-lodged-for-aleague-stake-as-club-owners-consider-selling-a-minority-stake/news-story/9d50a721d27a4c7c337493e7f9c1b9e5



Private equity bids lodged for A-League stake as club owners consider selling a minority stake


The struggling A-League — which from July will be owned by the 12 entrepreneurs, investment groups and, in the case of Melbourne City, a city state — is in the market for private equity investment that is said to value the competition at more than $200m.

That would be a hefty valuation, given the league’s 12 teams are losing tens of millions of dollars annually, television ratings have slumped and COVID-19 has hit already falling attendances.

...
Sources say the owners group, which has fought for control of the league for years, is unlikely to be prepared to relinquish majority control but would be willing to sell down as much as 29 per cent to a buyer.

One party said to have looked at the numbers is US firm Silver Lake, which put $US500m into City Football Group in 2019 for a 10 per cent stake. Majority-owned by Abu Dhabi, CFG owns a global network of clubs headed by English Premier League giant Manchester City and including Melbourne City.
 

Prince Imperial

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Apr 9, 2003
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Yes, there's the Covid factor and they are second last on the table (after finishing second last the previous season), however the collapse in support for Victory is staggering.

4019 for their home match today (in good weather) following just 3235 for their previous home match (Friday night in good weather) against the Wanderers.

For a fan base that has enjoyed four premierships and much success over many years and was by far the biggest in the league, this is simply woeful and it is probably indicative of how shallow overall support for the A-League (and its teams) are with Australian soccer fans.
 

weewilly

Senior List
Jul 18, 2003
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Yes, there's the Covid factor and they are second last on the table (after finishing second last the previous season), however the collapse in support for Victory is staggering.

4019 for their home match today (in good weather) following just 3235 for their previous home match (Friday night in good weather) against the Wanderers.

For a fan base that has enjoyed four premierships and much success over many years and was by far the biggest in the league, this is simply woeful and it is probably indicative of how shallow overall support for the A-League (and its teams) are with Australian soccer fans.
Yep the Victory bandwaggoners have really jumped ship!
But the A League playing well into the AFL and NRL seasons was a big mistake as well!
 

kaypee

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Yes, there's the Covid factor and they are second last on the table (after finishing second last the previous season), however the collapse in support for Victory is staggering.

4019 for their home match today (in good weather) following just 3235 for their previous home match (Friday night in good weather) against the Wanderers.

For a fan base that has enjoyed four premierships and much success over many years and was by far the biggest in the league, this is simply woeful and it is probably indicative of how shallow overall support for the A-League (and its teams) are with Australian soccer fans.
soccer is just boring. I get that clubs have fanbases but the fact is unless you're watching elite comp it's just plodders trying to smack the ball in from outside the square.
 

giggler99

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Yes, there's the Covid factor and they are second last on the table (after finishing second last the previous season), however the collapse in support for Victory is staggering.

4019 for their home match today (in good weather) following just 3235 for their previous home match (Friday night in good weather) against the Wanderers.

For a fan base that has enjoyed four premierships and much success over many years and was by far the biggest in the league, this is simply woeful and it is probably indicative of how shallow overall support for the A-League (and its teams) are with Australian soccer fans.
A lot of internal problems the fans ain’t happy about as well and are sending a message to the board that they are not happy the way the club has been run.

The ticketing/membership model this year was set up all wrong not only did members pay for a reduced membership they also still had to book and buy tickets through ticketek/ticketmaster with the booking fee not being waived. Might seem trivial but in a season as poor as Victory are having most members ain’t copping it! Example I payed $120 for my membership but haven’t gone to a single game this season. A few factors but mainly because I’m feed up with the club owners and how they’ve dragged the club through the mud the last couple of season. plus being piss poor why would I keep paying to watch that garbage we have been displaying on field.

Not excusing the massive fall it’s warranted of criticism, but a lot of it is the clubs own doing not the fans fault they see straight through what’s been happening within. The League doing next to nothing promotions all season doesn’t help either.
 
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Prince Imperial

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Apr 9, 2003
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A lot of internal problems the fans ain’t happy about as well and are sending a message to the board that they are not happy the way the club has been run.

The ticketing/membership model this year was set up all wrong not only did members pay for a reduced membership they also still had to book and buy tickets through ticketek/ticketmaster with the booking fee not being waived. Might seem trivial but in a season as poor as Victory are having most members ain’t copping it! Example I payed $120 for my membership but haven’t gone to a single game this season. A few factors but mainly because I’m feed up with the club owners and how they’ve dragged the club through the mud the last couple of season. plus being piss poor why would I keep paying to watch that garbage we have been displaying on field.

Not excusing the massive fall it’s warranted of criticism, but a lot of it is the clubs own doing not the fans fault they see straight through what’s been happening within. The League doing next to nothing promotions all season doesn’t help either.
Fair enough, though it again highlights the difference between membership owned clubs and profit driven businesses like the Victory.

Even if they are pissed off with management, members of the former will on the whole put up with it as they know their money is going into the club and not simply into the pockets of a few wealthy men.
 

NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
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Fair enough, though it again highlights the difference between membership owned clubs and profit driven businesses like the Victory.

Even if they are pissed off with management, members of the former will on the whole put up with it as they know their money is going into the club and not simply into the pockets of a few wealthy men.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Victory's owners have constituted they can't take dividends from the club (even when they are making money).

I think I big factor in Victory's current demise is that for a lot of its supporters the Victory are not their primary allegiance (instead either AFL clubs or european soccer clubs)....

AFL clubs lose a lot of match-goers when they are down and out as well but there is a much stronger base where the club and attending matches are core parts of identity and cultural practice.

The Victory are just the biggest arc of what is a remarkably consistent trajectory of novel "post ethnic" franchises in Australian soccer - all of them had their biggest support in the early years where there was a substantial novelty factor and then diminished over time (eg northern spirit, perth glory, all the new foundation A League franchises, WSW etc).

The early success possibly contributes to the downward spiral as the expectations and behaviour of the people taking it way to seriously become a turn off to others in the longer term (despite being a big part of the initial buzz)
 

Prince Imperial

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To be fair, I'm pretty sure Victory's owners have constituted they can't take dividends from the club (even when they are making money).
Good point, though I'd reckon that investors in this space are much more motivated by capital gains rather than dividends. Their first owners, Geoff Lord and co, did very well on that front when they sold the business.
 

NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
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Good point, though I'd reckon that investors in this space are much more motivated by capital gains rather than dividends. Their first owners, Geoff Lord and co, did very well on that front when they sold the business.
Yeah good point.

I suspect capital gains will be modest from here on though!
 

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BringBackTorps

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Jan 5, 2017
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1. P. Micallef states that the A League could be a big winner from the crisis/fan disillusionment with the private owners & the "dirty dozen" Euro clubs who agreed to start the Super League comp.
Australian "euorosnob" soccer fans are becoming furious with the "dirty dozen"- & could be converted to supporting the A League, but only if it adopted a Promotion/Relegation system.


Even though the billionaire owners of the dirty dozen soccer clubs have put a temporary halt to the Super League breakaway, W. Ali, on ABC's Offsiders on 26.4, stated these owners are likely to persevere with plans for an exclusive breakaway Super League.
This is because these owners simply do not wish to continue with the massive losses of their clubs. Only an exclusive Super League might be able to deliver profits, with FAR more games being played between the top dozen soccer clubs in Europe.






2. The anger of the vast majority of soccer fans in Europe is continuing, even after Super League's imminent creation has been halted- as these angry scenes & pitch invasions of Manchester United fans a few days ago demonstrate.

 
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Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
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To be fair, I'm pretty sure Victory's owners have constituted they can't take dividends from the club (even when they are making money).

I think I big factor in Victory's current demise is that for a lot of its supporters the Victory are not their primary allegiance (instead either AFL clubs or european soccer clubs)....

AFL clubs lose a lot of match-goers when they are down and out as well but there is a much stronger base where the club and attending matches are core parts of identity and cultural practice.

The Victory are just the biggest arc of what is a remarkably consistent trajectory of novel "post ethnic" franchises in Australian soccer - all of them had their biggest support in the early years where there was a substantial novelty factor and then diminished over time (eg northern spirit, perth glory, all the new foundation A League franchises, WSW etc).

The early success possibly contributes to the downward spiral as the expectations and behaviour of the people taking it way to seriously become a turn off to others in the longer term (despite being a big part of the initial buzz)
I remember hearing that the memberships of both the Victory and Heart were around 50% AFL members.
I think it's very easy to imagine that when the extreme element of soccer start acting like dickheads with all that chip on shoulder stuff and being wronged by everyone under the sun that even those who support both sports equally are going to be turned off soccer a bit.

Re capital gains, the owners who bought the licenses early on (and there aren't too many left), are a good chance of making a capital gain, but that's a drop in the ocean compared to the tens of millions of dollars most clubs have lost over the journey.
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
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1. P. Micallef states that the A League could be a big winner from the crisis/fan dissillusionment with the private owners & the "dirty dozen" Euro clubs who agreed to start the Super League comp.
Australian "euorosnob" soccer fans are becoming furious with the "dirty dozen"- & could be converted to supporting the A League, but only if it adopted a Promotion/Relegation system.
The thing about Australian soccer is that absolutely every event, good or bad, is nearly always viewed as a harbinger of renewed fortune (which never, ever arrives).

I can recall early days of COVID that one prominent soccer journo predicted that COVID situation was going to be good for Australian soccer and that the big sports were going to suffer hugely, thus giving soccer a chance to jump them, or at the very least, bridge the gap.

The logic was (and it's a tiny bit warped, so bear with me), with the A-League already working off a tiny base, with COVID potentially reducing everyone to a semi-pro status, this was the perfect opportunity for the A-League to be on an equal footing with the major codes.
 

weewilly

Senior List
Jul 18, 2003
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Mr Lord was snooping about when the new licences were in play. No action resulted.
Soccer in Australia in in a world of pain all self inflicted.
The much vaunted Womens soccer gets pathetic crowds and poor TV coverage when compared to AFLW which at some time in the future will be come fully professional and that will impact on young girls on which sport they choose play.

The womens world cup will give soccer a slight boost and then back to a square one pretty quickly!
 

Johnny Bananas

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Sep 10, 2010
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The NZRU has just sold 12.5% of its assets/revenues etc. (including the All Blacks) to US private equity firm Silver Lakes for AUS $361m.
It states its most urgent community need is to invest in GR teenage RU (where, in NZ, there has been a long term significant decline in jnr & snr male contact RU); & female RU (?. Female contact RU in NZ has recently had significant growth, so I'm not aware of why there is a pressing need to invest there).
I wonder if there's an opportunity for Australian rules to break back into NZ with rugby's present difficulties. I suppose the market is tough to crack and not all that large anyway though.
 

Aussie in exile

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Nov 21, 2013
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RA had a net loss of $27m in 2020- & states it is likely it will sell c.12.5% of RA assets/revenues etc. (inc. Wallabies) to private equity.

The NZRU has just sold 12.5% of its assets/revenues etc. (including the All Blacks) to US private equity firm Silver Lakes for AUS $361m.
It states its most urgent community need is to invest in GR teenage RU (where, in NZ, there has been a long term significant decline in jnr & snr male contact RU); & female RU (?. Female contact RU in NZ has recently had significant growth, so I'm not aware of why there is a pressing need to invest there).


Soccer & basketball have become the biggest male participant sports in NZ- soccer has been no. 1 for many years, basketball no.2 in the last 2 years.
A huge mistake in my book for the NZRU to sell 12,5% of it's assets/revenues
Private equity firms are asset strippers
 

giggler99

Moderator
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Good point, though I'd reckon that investors in this space are much more motivated by capital gains rather than dividends. Their first owners, Geoff Lord and co, did very well on that front when they sold the business.
Yeah good point.

I suspect capital gains will be modest from here on though!
It's the business networking's which is at the heart of the owners core priorities in expense of the on field investments. The Victory in Business luncheons is one of their big success ventures connecting their own self interests under the clubs name not only in Australia but throughout Asia too.
One of the big reasons the fans are feed up! understand its necessary for the clubs survival in attracting new business partners and sponsors in such a fragile league but if its at the expense of the on field investments and performance well than the fans ain't gonna cop it! The Footscray Park Academy is a big example no planning or research done on the constitutes and so they where rightfully beaten by a bunch of dog walkers! Yet still no word on another location to where the Academy will be. poor communications between club and fans also doesn't help, All the indications seem to be that the board and the CEO have no ******* idea how to run a football club only know how to network! and no bringing in a top level Coach such as Popovic isn't gonna solve everything might help clean up the football department but unless other sackings at the top are made its just all papering over cracks.
 
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