Opinion 2021 Non-Crows AFL 3: Things Fall Apart!

[Apsaalooke]

Again, the draft was only in its infancy - and the trading was as well.

It is very easy to say in hindsight it was bad but at the time we thought we had “our missing piece”

The draft started in 1986

 

[Golumless]

Agree.

But he definitely is correct about overpaying for Carey.

Considering we also got Torney in the deal, it's certainly wasn't as bad as advertised.

Still, it's one of those relics of a bygone era, before trading/drafting became a more professional activity.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Considering we also got Torney in the deal, it's certainly wasn't as bad as advertised.

Still, it's one of those relics of a bygone era, before trading/drafting became a more professional activity.

We were so dumb in those days. I'm looking at 2001 draft

Ryan Fitzgerald Sydney Swans Adelaide Crows draft pick #28 Kris Massie Carlton Adelaide Crows Andrew Eccles Ben Nelson Carlton Adelaide Crows David Gallagher Daniel Schell Fremantle Adelaide Crows draft pick #56

Pick 28 for a broken down Fitzy
Massie was ok. Schell and Nelson duds.
We picked Riley at 12 which was a pass. Athoug in hindsight we missed a few guns later on including Del Santo, Stevie J. We would have got Montagna with the Fitzy pick. Our other 2 picks were duds.

We done well in the rookie draft with Rutten, Bock and Mattner.

 

[Vader]

Again, the draft was only in its infancy - and the trading was as well.

It is very easy to say in hindsight it was bad but at the time we thought we had “our missing piece”

In it's infancy? The draft has been around since 1986. It's infancy was the 1980s, when players were drafted without ever having nominated, with many players subsequently ignoring the VFL completely and playing out their careers in the SANFL/WAFL.

Don't get me wrong - talent identification has come a long way since the early 2000s, but let's not kid ourselves that drafting was by any means immature in the 2000s.

 

[Golumless]

We were so dumb in those days. I'm looking at 2001 draft

Ryan Fitzgerald Sydney Swans Adelaide Crows draft pick #28 Kris Massie Carlton Adelaide Crows Andrew Eccles Ben Nelson Carlton Adelaide Crows David Gallagher Daniel Schell Fremantle Adelaide Crows draft pick #56

Pick 28 for a broken down Fitzy
Massie was ok. Schell and Nelson duds.
We picked Riley at 12 which was a pass. Athoug in hindsight we missed a few guns later on including Del Santo, Stevie J. We would have got Montagna with the Fitzy pick. Our other 2 picks were duds.

We done well in the rookie draft with Rutten, Bock and Mattner.

There is a much better example of baffling in that era. Bode for 10 as the crux.

Those deals all look fine. Pick 4 three years in for a second round pick. solid player for a solid player, and one we easily came out in top of in the Kris Massie one. Dud for dud in the Nelson, Gallagher one and Schell for 56 is pretty on point with value. Nothing pick for a nothing player.

The thing with hindsight is it's a worthless exercise with drafts. There is no guarantee any of those players become anything at Adelaide, nor the players who were duds at other clubs are duds here. You can almost be guaranteed Stevie J would have been turfed here as an example just due to the attitude problems he had.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

There is a much better example of baffling in that era. Bode for 10 as the crux.

Those deals all look fine. Pick 4 three years in for a second round pick. solid player for a solid player, and one we easily came out in top of in the Kris Massie one. Dud for dud in the Nelson, Gallagher one and Schell for 56 is pretty on point with value. Nothing pick for a nothing player.

The thing with hindsight is it's a worthless exercise with drafts. There is no guarantee any of those players become anything at Adelaide, nor the players who were duds at other clubs are duds here. You can almost be guaranteed Stevie J would have been turfed here as an example just due to the attitude problems he had.

That Bode trade was totally crazy. Good player but a pick 50 maybe. Cost us a Cornes or Burgoyne as I recall.

 

[kirky]

You can’t nail every draft!

Every club says “we could have drafted x player instead we got y player”.

Some players develop later, some earlier, some not all. Hell, we don’t all go thru puberty at the same time!

PS : have a look at the duds the other franchise in this State have drafted over the years.

 

[rabidcrow]

Not if he was disowned by Sydney for sleeping with the captain's wife, had no choice but to get out of the club and the state, nominated Port only and had no other club seriously interested

Your assuming no one else wanted him. And “bad boys” get picked up by other clubs all the time - Fevola, even Stengle. Any club would give up a high pick if they thought it would take them over the edge


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[WetCrow1991]

We weren't close to beating the Lions in a final in either 02 or 03 and it was obvious at the time.

 

[1970crow]

Let’s not compare the acquisition of Carey to Gibbs. Carey was - and is - one of the all time greats. It was a high price to pay but worth it at the time. Were he not injured, who knows what might have happened. Gibbs on the other hand was a run of the mill midfielder not remotely worth what we paid. He was never going to be “the difference”. Carey could have been… I mean, he wasn’t… but he could have been. Again, worth the punt.

They’re perfectly aligned. Both were acquired to play 2-3 seasons in a flag window and provide something previously lacking. Carey a high functioning key forward and Gibbs a ball winning mid with supposed elite disposal. It’s impossible to not compare them. And that’s before even worrying about whether we overpaid or even contended during their tenure.

 

[1970crow]

We weren't close to beating the Lions in a final in either 02 or 03 and it was obvious at the time.

port were dominating minor rounds around then from memory.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Your assuming no one else wanted him. And “bad boys” get picked up by other clubs all the time - Fevola, even Stengle. Any club would give up a high pick if they thought it would take them over the edge


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This is from an article in The Age at the time, posted a page or 2 back by Col Sanders. It's pretty clear he was only ever going to the Crows

Carey yesterday told Hawthorn, one of the leading Victorian bidders, that he had opted to abandon Victoria, where his explosive weekend stoush with player agent Ricky Nixon on the radio was aired, in search of a new beginning.
Hawthorn football manager John Hook, who was central to the Hawks' discussions with the former Kangaroo, phoned Carey yesterday morning to put the speculation to rest, and Carey told him he had decided to make a new start interstate.
"I think he probably thinks a fresh city might be the best. Unfortunately we're not the first preference," Hook said.

"Our stance is that we would have loved to have got him, but he had to make a decision about what was best for him and we respect his decision on that. We wish it was Hawthorn."
Collingwood was also unflustered by the decision, although late yesterday the club had not been contacted by Carey with an official rejection.

"We wish him all the best," chief executive Greg Swann said. "We always thought he was going to go to Adelaide, but we thought if he stayed in Melbourne he might stay with us. He (has) chosen to go to Adelaide; good luck to them. We've got a finals series to worry about, so that's our focus at the moment."
Sydney and the Magpies had both indicated they were unwilling to relinquish a first-round draft pick for Carey, but had not given up hope of engineering a trade with the Kangaroos if he wanted to make his new home at the SCG or Victoria Park.

 

[Geoffa32]

3 memories. That goal. That goalpost. A key forward attempting pack marks without elevating his hands above his head.

Even peak Carey took pack marks on his chest/below his head.




His shoulder was bad when he came to us, won't disagree with that. He carried Norf for over a decade. Been irrelevant since he left.

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[1970crow]

Even peak Carey took pack marks on his chest/below his head.




His shoulder was bad when he came to us, won't disagree with that. He carried Norf for over a decade. Been irrelevant since he left.

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Not exclusively though.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Even peak Carey took pack marks on his chest/below his head.




His shoulder was bad when he came to us, won't disagree with that. He carried Norf for over a decade. Been irrelevant since he left.

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Wow watching the highlights, Carey looked huge. Yet he is only 5cm taller than Dustin Martin and Walker is taller. Amazing how in the space of just 20 years how much bigger an AFL team has become.

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[GROTTO]

Wow watching the highlights, Carey looked huge. Yet he is only 5cm taller than Dustin Martin and Walker is taller. Amazing how in the space of just 20 years how much bigger an AFL team has become.

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Begs an interesting question as to how much bigger or faster an AFL team may be in 20+ years from now?

Have we reached a peak, with only small incremental increases for the following decades?

 

[arrowman]

Begs an interesting question as to how much bigger or faster an AFL team may be in 20+ years from now?

Have we reached a peak, with only small incremental increases for the following decades?

Maybe a plateau from here, but the population in general has been getting taller over time, I think. I'm 6ft and that doesn't seem to be as tall as it was when I was a lad. I know there was talk about making soccer goals larger because goallkeepers are taller than they were 30-50 years ago.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Begs an interesting question as to how much bigger or faster an AFL team may be in 20+ years from now?

Have we reached a peak, with only small incremental increases for the following decades?

I think so. The difference is now that we are attracting basketball and rugby players to the game due to the money. It's amazing to think Leigh Matthews was James Rowe's height. Carey was your standard Ruckmen size just 20 years before his era. The only way I can see us getting bigger overall is if we start getting interest from African and African American basketball and nfl players. But the money isn't there for that. For example: as athletic as LeBron is, would he be able to translate that to a footy field? Would there be a point where there is such a thing as too tall that the body simply can't manoeuvre on a footy field. I mean players McHenrys size exist purely because they hold an advantage when the ball is on the ground.

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[Sanders]

I must have looked at the wrong draft.

that draft really sucked!

hopefully this years isn’t as bad

 

[1970crow]

Considering we also got Torney in the deal, it's certainly wasn't as bad as advertised.

Still, it's one of those relics of a bygone era, before trading/drafting became a more professional activity.

Weren’t the deals between us and Tigers and Roos separate?

 

[adelaidecrows]

Maybe a plateau from here, but the population in general has been getting taller over time, I think. I'm 6ft and that doesn't seem to be as tall as it was when I was a lad. I know there was talk about making soccer goals larger because goallkeepers are taller than they were 30-50 years ago.

The issue with taller is it doesn't necessarily translate into agility. Plus professional players can hit a ball harder and can pin point spots in a the net and hit it. Way better than what they could back 30 years ago.

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[Sanders]

With all this mouth breathing about giving up pick 4 for Carey, remember we got pick 4 for Kane Johnson

Pick 4 wasn’t a super valuable good pick in 2002 - that draft sucked

 

[Geoffa32]

Not exclusively though.

Lifted his arm here, slightly.




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[adelaidecrows]

With all this mouth breathing about giving up pick 4 for Carey, remember we got pick 4 for Kane Johnson

Pick 4 wasn’t a super valuable good pick in 2002 - that draft sucked

Different era. Clubs didn't place as higher value on the high draft picks and scouting was amateur at best and high picks were very hit and miss. Not like today, where a higher percentage of recruits in the first round go on to decent careers. Carey would have been a second rounder in today's market, at best, or even completely sacked and delisted.

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[arrowman]

The issue with taller is it doesn't necessarily translate into agility. Plus professional players can hit a ball harder and can pin point spots in a the net and hit it. Way better than what they could back 30 years ago.

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Peter Lorimer says hi