Ultimate Glory 2021 Peter Crimmins Medal - Congrats Tom Mitchell!

Who wins the PCM?

  • Tom Mitchell

    Votes: 36 87.8%
  • Chad Wingard

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Jaeger O’Meara

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Blake Hardwick

    Votes: 2 4.9%
  • Jack Scrimshaw

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dylan Moore

    Votes: 2 4.9%

  • Total voters
    41

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cryptor

Brownlow Medallist
May 11, 2008
19,662
43,692
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Just for interest, the order by average votes per game played...

#NameVotesGamesAvg Votes/game
1​
Tom MITCHELL
161​
22​
7.32​
2​
Jaeger O’MEARA
121​
18​
6.72​
3​
Blake HARDWICK
126​
20​
6.30​
4​
Chad WINGARD
100​
16​
6.25​
5​
Will DAY
30​
5​
6.00​
6​
Dylan MOORE
101​
20​
5.05​
7​
Changkuoth JIATH
79​
16​
4.94​
8​
Jonathon CEGLAR
57​
12​
4.75​
9​
Sam FROST
95​
22​
4.32​
10​
Jarman IMPEY
54​
13​
4.15​
11​
Daniel HOWE
83​
20​
4.15​
12​
Lachlan BRAMBLE
41​
10​
4.10​
13​
Luke BREUST
73​
19​
3.84​
14​
James WORPEL
74​
20​
3.70​
15​
Kyle HARTIGAN
69​
19​
3.63​
16​
Liam SHIELS
74​
21​
3.52​
17​
Jack SCRIMSHAW
70​
20​
3.50​
18​
Mitchell LEWIS
47​
14​
3.36​
19​
Jacob KOSCHITZKE
63​
20​
3.15​
20​
Ben McEVOY
67​
22​
3.05​
21​
Harry MORRISON
42​
15​
2.80​
22​
Conor NASH
22​
8​
2.75​
23​
Tim O’BRIEN
45​
19​
2.37​
24​
Michael HARTLEY
7​
3​
2.33​
25​
Shaun BURGOYNE
41​
18​
2.28​
26​
Tom PHILLIPS
48​
22​
2.18​
27​
Denver GRAINGER-BARRAS
10​
5​
2.00​
28​
Tyler BROCKMAN
19​
11​
1.73​
29​
Jai NEWCOMBE
12​
7​
1.71​
30​
James COUSINS
17​
10​
1.70​
31​
Ned REEVES*
8​
5​
1.60​
32​
Damon GREAVES*
9​
7​
1.29​
33​
Oliver HANRAHAN*
13​
13​
1.00​
34​
Finn MAGINNESS
1​
2​
0.50​
35​
Joshua MORRIS
1​
5​
0.20​
 

HODGEYROAD

Brownlow Medallist
May 10, 2007
20,614
25,015
Bonbeach
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal Fc Portland Trailblazers
Have to give Mitchell credit, that's 3 wins in the 4 seasons he has been available if you dismiss 2019 due to the leg break.

Is that Jaeger's 3rd finish in the top 3 ? Or only his 2nd.

Hardwick 2nd place in 2018 and 2021.
 

Adelaide Hawk

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2002
49,230
41,288
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Norwood
Three famous Hawks numbers in the top 3:

Tom Mitchell - 3 - Leigh Matthews (8 B&F)
Blake Hardwick - 15 - Luke Hodge (2B&F)
Jaeger O'Meara - 10 - John Kennedy Sr (4 B&F)
 

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Adelaide Hawk

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2002
49,230
41,288
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Norwood
Do you have a while list of BNFs by number?
1925Fred Finch11
1926Unknown
1927Ernest Utting12
1928Miles Sellers8
1929Ernest Utting12
1930John Sharpley6
1931Unknown
1932Stan Spinks8
1933Albert Mills12
1934Ernie Loveless17
1935Albert Mills12
1936Leo Murphy16
1937Leo Murphy16
1938Stan Spinks8
1939Albert Mills12
1940Andrew Angwin4
1941Alec Albiston17
1942John Barker6
1943Jim Bohan15
1944Jack Blackman17
1945Jim Bohan15
1946Alec Albiston4
1947Wally Culpitt2
1948Kevin Curran25
1949Colin Austen9
1950John Kennedy Sr10
1951John Kennedy Sr10
1952John Kennedy Sr10
1953Ted Fletcher1
1954John Kennedy Sr10
1955Graham Arthur2
1956Roy Simmonds27
1957Alf Hughes12
1958Graham Arthur2
1959Allan Woodley24
1960Brendan Edwards9
1961Ian Law7
1962Graham Arthur2
1963Ian Law7
1964Ian Law7
1965David Parkin27
1966Ray Wilson10
1967Robert Keddie33
1968Peter Hudson26
1969Robert Keddie2
1970Peter Hudson26
1971Leigh Matthews32
1972Leigh Matthews3
1973Don Scott23
1974Leigh Matthews3
1975Peter Knights24
1976Leigh Matthews3
1977Leigh Matthews3
1978Leigh Matthews3
Peter Knights24
1979Kelvin Moore15
1980Leigh Matthews3
1981Terry Wallace16
1982Leigh Matthews3
1983Terry Wallace16
1984Russell Greene29
1985Dermott Brereton23
1986Gary Ayres7
1987John Platten44
1988Jason Dunstall19
1989Jason Dunstall19
1990Andrew Collins4
1991Ben Allan15
1992Jason Dunstall19
1993Jason Dunstall19
1994John Platten44
1995Darren Jarman11
1996Paul Salmon4
1997Paul Salmon4
1998Shane Crawford9
1999Shane Crawford9
2000Daniel Chick17
Nick Holland2
2001Joel Smith11
2002Shane Crawford9
2003Shane Crawford9
2004Peter Everitt1
2005Luke Hodge15
2006Sam Mitchell5
2007Brad Sewell12
2008Lance Franklin23
2009Sam Mitchell5
2010Luke Hodge15
2011Sam Mitchell5
2012Sam Mitchell5
2013Josh Gibson6
2014Jordan Lewis3
2015Josh Gibson6
2016Sam Mitchell5
2017Tom Mitchell3
2018Tom Mitchell3
2019James Worpel5
2020Jack Gunston19
2021Tom Mitchell3
 

tommyk72

Premium Platinum
Apr 10, 2007
3,800
5,260
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
1925Fred Finch11
1926Unknown
1927Ernest Utting12
1928Miles Sellers8
1929Ernest Utting12
1930John Sharpley6
1931Unknown
1932Stan Spinks8
1933Albert Mills12
1934Ernie Loveless17
1935Albert Mills12
1936Leo Murphy16
1937Leo Murphy16
1938Stan Spinks8
1939Albert Mills12
1940Andrew Angwin4
1941Alec Albiston17
1942John Barker6
1943Jim Bohan15
1944Jack Blackman17
1945Jim Bohan15
1946Alec Albiston4
1947Wally Culpitt2
1948Kevin Curran25
1949Colin Austen9
1950John Kennedy Sr10
1951John Kennedy Sr10
1952John Kennedy Sr10
1953Ted Fletcher1
1954John Kennedy Sr10
1955Graham Arthur2
1956Roy Simmonds27
1957Alf Hughes12
1958Graham Arthur2
1959Allan Woodley24
1960Brendan Edwards9
1961Ian Law7
1962Graham Arthur2
1963Ian Law7
1964Ian Law7
1965David Parkin27
1966Ray Wilson10
1967Robert Keddie33
1968Peter Hudson26
1969Robert Keddie2
1970Peter Hudson26
1971Leigh Matthews32
1972Leigh Matthews3
1973Don Scott23
1974Leigh Matthews3
1975Peter Knights24
1976Leigh Matthews3
1977Leigh Matthews3
1978Leigh Matthews3
Peter Knights24
1979Kelvin Moore15
1980Leigh Matthews3
1981Terry Wallace16
1982Leigh Matthews3
1983Terry Wallace16
1984Russell Greene29
1985Dermott Brereton23
1986Gary Ayres7
1987John Platten44
1988Jason Dunstall19
1989Jason Dunstall19
1990Andrew Collins4
1991Ben Allan15
1992Jason Dunstall19
1993Jason Dunstall19
1994John Platten44
1995Darren Jarman11
1996Paul Salmon4
1997Paul Salmon4
1998Shane Crawford9
1999Shane Crawford9
2000Daniel Chick17
Nick Holland2
2001Joel Smith11
2002Shane Crawford9
2003Shane Crawford9
2004Peter Everitt1
2005Luke Hodge15
2006Sam Mitchell5
2007Brad Sewell12
2008Lance Franklin23
2009Sam Mitchell5
2010Luke Hodge15
2011Sam Mitchell5
2012Sam Mitchell5
2013Josh Gibson6
2014Jordan Lewis3
2015Josh Gibson6
2016Sam Mitchell5
2017Tom Mitchell3
2018Tom Mitchell3
2019James Worpel5
2020Jack Gunston19
2021Tom Mitchell3
Cheers. So, number of BNFs by jumper number:


3​
11​
12​
7​
2​
6​
5​
6​
9​
6​
15​
6​
4​
5​
10​
5​
19​
5​
6​
4​
7​
4​
16​
4​
17​
4​
8​
3​
11​
3​
23​
3​
24​
3​
1​
2​
26​
2​
27​
2​
44​
2​
25​
1​
29​
1​
32​
1​
33​
1​
 

FactsNotBS

If you can't say anything nice...
Aug 21, 2020
160
302
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Always Hawthorn. Just kidding GC.
So what you are saying is, the coaches rate 10 players, on average ahead of him due to coaches voting on only the line they coach and Clarko floating across the team but favouring mids? Amd that among defenders, the two main ones ahead of him are superior defensively, even though their offensive output is often lower?

an implication of the way you described the voting process as by coaching line is that Tom Mitchell received A shed load of 4 vote performances and almost never anything lower than a 3. He averaged 7.3 votes per game. What a freak! But does that stack up? 🤔

it also means that the highest tally you can get from only your line coaches is 88 if you get 22 4 vote games. And 4 votes are restricted to players who perform exceptional performances so shouldn’t be handed out four times a week. Yet we have 6 players who have more than 88 votes. Both Hardwick and omeara average over 6 votes a game. As did chad. Don’t think that is possible unless coaches are voting across lines.
Any coach can vote for any player. But 4 coaches only, vote. Im not saying its 10 players. I dont think one coach can give two players 4 for example. If they give one 4, they can only give another 2 and one, individually I think. Not sure. Actually if they all voted for someone different it would be max 12 players can get a vote. (4 coaches by 3) It was Newman (Defence) Bolton (Mids) McRae (Forward) and Clarkson. So naturally each line coach would be focused on their own group and then Clarkson everyone. Coaches can vote 3,2,1 and if a player has a stand out game, they can vote 4 votes. So hence maximum 16 votes per game for any one player assuming he picks up 4 from every coach. One game there, Howe got 16 votes, the max. So it means Newman gave his 4 to him. Makes it a bit hard for a Day, CJ or Scrim to get a vote if Frost and Hardwick got votes. They often get roles to stop players and we dont see them getting much of the ball so the Yabby voters are not likely to vote for Frost or Hardwick if they dont know what the role is.

The PCM is just a different voting system. I think its better than the brownlow which seems to be a midfielders award, because defenders and forwards can get a better look in. Bruce (WB) kicked 10 in a game this year and never got a brownlow vote. Howe got 16 votes in the PCM game (may have been v Collingwood I think) and never got a brownow vote in that game.

All coaches might decide to give all their votes to mids or to a player who had a specific key role. Im just saying if in doubt, I would imagine a line coach would vote for their guy but they are limited to 3 players.
 

B&GBlood

Premiership Player
Mar 19, 2007
3,784
4,001
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Any coach can vote for any player. But 4 coaches only, vote. Im not saying its 10 players. I dont think one coach can give two players 4 for example. If they give one 4, they can only give another 2 and one, individually I think. Not sure. Actually if they all voted for someone different it would be max 12 players can get a vote. (4 coaches by 3) It was Newman (Defence) Bolton (Mids) McRae (Forward) and Clarkson. So naturally each line coach would be focused on their own group and then Clarkson everyone. Coaches can vote 3,2,1 and if a player has a stand out game, they can vote 4 votes. So hence maximum 16 votes per game for any one player assuming he picks up 4 from every coach. One game there, Howe got 16 votes, the max. So it means Newman gave his 4 to him. Makes it a bit hard for a Day, CJ or Scrim to get a vote if Frost and Hardwick got votes. They often get roles to stop players and we dont see them getting much of the ball so the Yabby voters are not likely to vote for Frost or Hardwick if they dont know what the role is.

The PCM is just a different voting system. I think its better than the brownlow which seems to be a midfielders award, because defenders and forwards can get a better look in. Bruce (WB) kicked 10 in a game this year and never got a brownlow vote. Howe got 16 votes in the PCM game (may have been v Collingwood I think) and never got a brownow vote in that game.

All coaches might decide to give all their votes to mids or to a player who had a specific key role. Im just saying if in doubt, I would imagine a line coach would vote for their guy but they are limited to 3 players.
The way I read it every player that beats their man is eligible for one vote from each coach. I don’t believe they must award on a 3 2 1 basis. So you could have multiple of each vote if the coach assesses the performance was good enough. Unlikely to have multiple 4 or 3 votes from one coach but still possible.
 

Dominic03

All Australian
Oct 28, 2020
979
766
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Personally bit surprised to see Hardwick polling 2nd in BnF.

Not that I don't rate him, just felt like he's still been a bit down on his 2018 form.
Had an unreal year, was genuinely one of the best small defenders in the comp. Had 20 touches or there abouts 80% DE 6 or so rebounds a game and an elite defensive loss % up there with the genuine best. He did both where most usually do one.
 

Jables

Club Legend
Jun 16, 2008
2,500
3,301
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
NY Giants, Hornets, Bulls
I'm not arguing with the stats but I also thought Hardwick was a bit subpar tbh. Must've been doing a job for the coaches I guess.
 

2OLD 2SLOW

Debutant
Jun 13, 2021
100
555
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I'm not arguing with the stats but I also thought Hardwick was a bit subpar tbh. Must've been doing a job for the coaches I guess.
I thought Hardwick had a brilliant season - one of the best small defenders in the comp.
Watching him play, he seems like a throwback to the 80s - with his footy smarts, clean disposal and consistent toughness ... can imagine him lining up with Ayres, Collins, Mew, Langford, Kennedy. No frills, just top quality.
 

FactsNotBS

If you can't say anything nice...
Aug 21, 2020
160
302
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Always Hawthorn. Just kidding GC.
Frost often looked like a baby giraffe on roller-skates most of last season, but has now evolved into an integral part of our defensive structure in recent times...
I was really worried when we got Frost because of his poor turnovers (ok, clangers) when streaming out of defense but he is way better in that area than he was at Melbourne. I am amazed at his closing speed to defend and his ability to spoil. In fact I think if he didnt have the Melbourne reputation he certainly had a year as good as Steven May or any key defender. I think May perhaps is a better mark and kick but Frost is a way better defender and breaks open lines with his run and carry. Kudos to our recruiters for getting him I reckon. If he keeps up his 2021 form he would have to be a lock for AA next year.
 

FactsNotBS

If you can't say anything nice...
Aug 21, 2020
160
302
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Always Hawthorn. Just kidding GC.
I thought Hardwick had a brilliant season - one of the best small defenders in the comp.
Watching him play, he seems like a throwback to the 80s - with his footy smarts, clean disposal and consistent toughness ... can imagine him lining up with Ayres, Collins, Mew, Langford, Kennedy. No frills, just top quality.
Agree...when building a premiership team position by position, he is a green tick for his role. Lets hope we can get 22 ticks come end of 2022.
 

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