Training 2021 Pre-Season, Training - pics, reports etc

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Blue__Balls

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
10,173
32,796
AFL Club
Carlton
Surely the daisy story can't be held up as an example of success. 4 or 5 years of absolute dross (due to injury, not effort) for 2 serviceable (but certainly from amazing) years all for millions of dollars and a list spot.

Not sure of Govs contract status (this is possibly his last?) but if he doesn't have a good year I would be moving him on one way or another. Needs to be playing for his football life.
See here's the thing - Gov has had injury issues too, including a broken back last preseason if I remember rightly.

And while there are plenty who like to bemoan the wasted money and list spot....none of them did the same for Docherty when he missed two seasons straight. I doubt anyone here even contemplated the issue of how much salary cap space was lost on him.

Ditto Charlie. He's got a high ceiling so everyone is just hanging for him to get fit so we can unleash him and win flags.

Gov? Injury prone, unfit, wasted list spot, wasted money....

Different standards for different players, it seems.
 

BigBreakfast

Premiership Player
Sep 19, 2019
4,489
7,101
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
See here's the thing - Gov has had injury issues too, including a broken back last preseason if I remember rightly.

And while there are plenty who like to bemoan the wasted money and list spot....none of them did the same for Docherty when he missed two seasons straight. I doubt anyone here even contemplated the issue of how much salary cap space was lost on him.

Ditto Charlie. He's got a high ceiling so everyone is just hanging for him to get fit so we can unleash him and win flags.

Gov? Injury prone, unfit, wasted list spot, wasted money....

Different standards for different players, it seems.
Not really fair comparisons though. Gov v Skaterboi v Mr Immaculate. Fair superhero line up though.
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
20,602
21,580
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
People said the same about Daisy. He came good eventually.

Not sure Gov will ever become a star for us, but hopefully he can get a clean run without injury for a couple of years and provide us with that 30+ goal third tall.
You get 30+ goals out if him then he won't be a bust. I see his value being more the assists than goals. 30 goals would be great.

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

Koutamightafides

Team Captain
Feb 21, 2019
353
831
AFL Club
Carlton
See here's the thing - Gov has had injury issues too, including a broken back last preseason if I remember rightly.

And while there are plenty who like to bemoan the wasted money and list spot....none of them did the same for Docherty when he missed two seasons straight. I doubt anyone here even contemplated the issue of how much salary cap space was lost on him.

Ditto Charlie. He's got a high ceiling so everyone is just hanging for him to get fit so we can unleash him and win flags.

Gov? Injury prone, unfit, wasted list spot, wasted money....

Different standards for different players, it seems.
Gov back fracture was the preseason before last .
 

The Bighouse

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2009
5,176
6,108
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
See here's the thing - Gov has had injury issues too, including a broken back last preseason if I remember rightly.

And while there are plenty who like to bemoan the wasted money and list spot....none of them did the same for Docherty when he missed two seasons straight. I doubt anyone here even contemplated the issue of how much salary cap space was lost on him.

Ditto Charlie. He's got a high ceiling so everyone is just hanging for him to get fit so we can unleash him and win flags.

Gov? Injury prone, unfit, wasted list spot, wasted money....

Different standards for different players, it seems.
Think Gov’s broken back was in pre-season #1 for us, which undoubtedly buggered up his season. He’s been off the boil ever since. Needs to put up the numbers when dragged across on a lucrative contract, which is the point of contention for most I assume and that “responsibility” (or pressure) doesn’t sit well on the shoulders of every recruit.

I’d say it’s the onfield returns re: form that differs between your examples. Chas & Doc have delivered out on the park for CFC, Mitch not so much despite the continued selection (could be to his detriment if not fit at the time for examples such as this one).
 

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Koutamightafides

Team Captain
Feb 21, 2019
353
831
AFL Club
Carlton
See here's the thing - Gov has had injury issues too, including a broken back last preseason if I remember rightly.

And while there are plenty who like to bemoan the wasted money and list spot....none of them did the same for Docherty when he missed two seasons straight. I doubt anyone here even contemplated the issue of how much salary cap space was lost on him.

Ditto Charlie. He's got a high ceiling so everyone is just hanging for him to get fit so we can unleash him and win flags.

Gov? Injury prone, unfit, wasted list spot, wasted money....

Different standards for different players, it seems.
Charlie kicked 7 goals in one of his last games , Docherty was AA before the ACL,s , what has Gov done ? 3 games last year he didn't get his first touch of the ball till after half time . No offence but no comparison tbh . Gov will come good this year hopefully for his and all our sakes .
 

BlueJet

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
5,315
5,729
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
North Ballarat
Charlie kicked 7 goals in one of his last games , Docherty was AA before the ACL,s , what has Gov done ? 3 games last year he didn't get his first touch of the ball till after half time . No offence but no comparison tbh . Gov will come good this year hopefully for his and all our sakes .
There's definitely a comparison, if a player can't train, they'll always struggle to perform - a difference in the quality of the player doesn't change that.
It's probably deserving of the unpopular opinions thread but IMO the longer Charlie has been out, the more dominant he's become - he played some top shelf footy but also had some quieter games too, as you'd expect from a developing KPP.
Hopefully Gov & Charlie can get their bodies right as their skillsets will really complement McKays.
 

Blue__Balls

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
10,173
32,796
AFL Club
Carlton
Think Gov’s broken back was in pre-season #1 for us, which undoubtedly buggered up his season. He’s been off the boil ever since. Needs to put up the numbers when dragged across on a lucrative contract, which is the point of contention for most I assume and that “responsibility” (or pressure) doesn’t sit well on the shoulders of every recruit.

I’d say it’s the onfield returns re: form that differs between your examples. Chas & Doc have delivered out on the park for CFC, Mitch not so much despite the continued selection (could be to his detriment if not fit at the time for examples such as this one).
Kind of reinforces my point though.

Year 1 he suffers a fractured back in preseason - for a player whose game is built heavily on flying for marks and crashing packs, I don't think it can be understated how disruptive an injury like that would be. Even post-recovery, there'd be psychological challenges to overcome before he'd feel comfortable playing his natural game.

He then strained a hammy a few months later. I'd imagine it's not a stretch to think that a player coming back from a back injury might be predisposed towards a hamstring injury?

And I think since then it's been a somewhat reoccurring issue, that hamstring.

Maybe it's his rehab and prep, maybe he's not working hard enough. But those sorts of accusations don't seem to get levelled at any other player who suffers repeat injuries. Nobody was pointing the finger at Willo's effort.

Gov hasn't performed for us, but has he really had the chance to? Maybe he won't get it, and his body will fail him (or he'll fail it, who knows). But I'm happy to afford him the same level of patience that Doc, Charlie, Willo and others have had.
 
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HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2006
6,187
7,351
AFL Club
Carlton
Im not saying he won't develop into a decent player. Hopefully he does. I want all our players to do well.

But right now he is no Dean Wallis.

Has alot of work to do, and needs to go past quite a few players he is competing for a spot with.

Will be shocked if he is picked round 1.
The thing is from when he was drafted to now he has already gone past guys like Dow, LOB, Stoker etc he is obviously a limited type of footballer but he is continuing to improve so maybe we are a better side with him in the 22 then some of the higher rated younger players. He may become a handy player in the right role
 

Carltontragic

All Australian
Sep 26, 2018
889
2,521
AFL Club
Carlton
Kind of reinforces my point though.

Year 1 he suffers a fractured back in preseason - for a player whose game is built heavily on flying for marks and crashing packs, I don't think it can be understated how disruptive an injury like that would be. Even post-recovery, there'd be psychological challenges to overcome before he'd feel comfortable playing his natural game.

He then strained a hammy a few months later. I'd imagine it's not a stretch to think that a player coming back from a back injury might be predisposed towards a hamstring injury?

And I think since then it's been a somewhat reoccurring issue, that hamstring.

Maybe it's his rehab and prep, maybe he's not working hard enough. But those sorts of accusations don't seem to get levelled at any other player who suffers repeat injuries. Nobody was pointing the finger at Willo's effort.

Giv hasn't performed for us, but has he really had the chance to? Maybe he won't get it, and his body will fail him (or he'll fail it, who knows). But I'm happy to afford him the same level of patience that Doc, Charlie, Willo and others have had.
I think it's more when watching a game Gov often makes silly mistakes or looks like he isn't paying attention/trying.
Least with Willo, Charlie and Doc they always seem to have a high level of effort even if not always rewarded or goes well.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
19,270
32,758
AFL Club
Carlton
Frustrating to see players with genuine match winning ability get injured and or not be able to perform to their best ability - but I doubt that any player is a willing participant in their injury. I was looking forward very much to seeing how McGovern /Harry and Charlie would make it mission impossible for defences and I still am.

Fingers crossed on Newmman - one of my favourite players another who has had a terrible run - not to mention Marchbank....or TDK now....or Docherty out for 2 years, & Kemp.....

We are doing it tough as far as luck goes with injury - not anyone'ss fault - just all part of teh 'journey'.
 

Coops93

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 19, 2015
6,114
12,767
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal, Denver Broncos
See here's the thing - Gov has had injury issues too, including a broken back last preseason if I remember rightly.

And while there are plenty who like to bemoan the wasted money and list spot....none of them did the same for Docherty when he missed two seasons straight. I doubt anyone here even contemplated the issue of how much salary cap space was lost on him.

Ditto Charlie. He's got a high ceiling so everyone is just hanging for him to get fit so we can unleash him and win flags.

Gov? Injury prone, unfit, wasted list spot, wasted money....

Different standards for different players, it seems.
It is different standards for different players, it's not a level playing field. Different players put in different effort and get different results. Doc was an AA, Thomas was an AA, both received unlucky severe injuries in no part due to effort. Both have always had a high work ethic.

McGovern has never been a great player and has always had claims made against him that he's a conditional player with effort that rises and drops. Training habits have often been queried and you could see in his body shape he wasn't putting in with lots of ticky tack injury issues that could be related to fitness and training efforts. Granted the last ~2yrs it seems he's stepped up his training efforts and that's great, but even then he's had periods where he looks to be lacking motivation on the field despite reportedly putting in off the field.

2 guys who are proven superstars and are off field leaders and mentors you'll give benefit of the doubt to. A guy who's never been anything but a tease with questionable work ethic, on decent money, traded in for 2x 2nd round picks and is in his already in his mid 20s isn't going to get that privilege. Guys earn that respect, and McGovern hasn't yet. It's not an unfair equation.
 

murphster

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2005
4,629
10,928
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Steelers,Dodgers,Casey Stoner
It’s looking like our forward line against Essendon will be Harry with JSOS and maybe Kennedy as the other talls given CAS and Gov are out, no Betts either hopefully they give Durdin a crack.

Pittonet the lone ruck so it will be interesting to see if they play Moore as the back up to him, can’t see many other options can’t see them taking Harry out of a bare bones forward line, our lack of back up talls is being exposed early let’s hope it isn’t a sign of things to come in the season proper.
 

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