Training 2021 Pre Season training watch

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Judd2Sewell

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Agreed.

In terms of development, for the entire list, I can't see how dropping Shiels last year and getting another 5 games or so into Moore and/or Finn (as examples) would have hurt anyone, especially once the season was dead. The same can be said for Scully Hendo and Stratts. We've seen this happen in other dead seasons where under-preforming senior players just kept their spot no matter what.

The bolded part is all we've ask for, even though we all know that Clarko is as stubborn as a mule and has 4 premiership medallions to show for it.
We should have done this, especially given that there was no VFL football. It was a year of stunted development for guys like Finn.

We were losing anyway so carrying those underperforming old guys didn't do anything for us IMO.
 

burner1

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it’s interesting to see the difference in development path for those we draft vs the players we trade in.

For both Finn and worpel we are actively building in multi-positional flexibility at an early stage in the careers. Finn, due to his athletic profile is likely more flexible than worpel, but even with worpel we seemed to work on his defensive side last year and this preseason it appears to be his attacking side in terms of getting ball on the move. Even cousins can play a range of roles - hff, wing and inside and Day with a few preseasons will be able to hold down a range of positions. Shiels is also a pretty balanced/flexible mid.

Contrast this to Mitchell and JOM who despite being in afl system for ~10 years are pretty limited in their flexibility - obviously harder to change roles once you’re a lock in the 22 / playing key roles (And if you’ve played the same way for your whole career) vs younger kids who can be moved around a bit more easily. Sam Mitchell kept evolving his game so it can be done - and interesting to see how JOM and wingard go in slightly different roles in 2021 - but I wonder how Mitchell and JOM would play if they had been in our system from the start?
 

Judd2Sewell

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it’s interesting to see the difference in development path for those we draft vs the players we trade in.

For both Finn and worpel we are actively building in multi-positional flexibility at an early stage in the careers. Finn, due to his athletic profile is likely more flexible than worpel, but even with worpel we seemed to work on his defensive side last year and this preseason it appears to be his attacking side in terms of getting ball on the move. Even cousins can play a range of roles - hff, wing and inside and Day with a few preseasons will be able to hold down a range of positions. Shiels is also a pretty balanced/flexible mid.

Contrast this to Mitchell and JOM who despite being in afl system for ~10 years are pretty limited in their flexibility - obviously harder to change roles once you’re a lock in the 22 / playing key roles (And if you’ve played the same way for your whole career) vs younger kids who can be moved around a bit more easily. Sam Mitchell kept evolving his game so it can be done - and interesting to see how JOM and wingard go in slightly different roles in 2021 - but I wonder how Mitchell and JOM would play if they had been in our system from the start?
Sam Mitchell could be used behind the ball due to his phenomenal skills. If not for that he would have been even more limited than T. Mitchell and JOM.

I think T. Mitchell could play in the forward line as he has shown that he is good around goals - sharking it from contests and snapping. I doubt he'd be any use anywhere else on the ground.

JOM I expect could play a variety of roles at a reasonable level as he has more physical attributes and a more rounded game then T. Mitchell.
 

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lyger

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Yep, he didn’t have his best season but was far from our worst and unless his body is completely cooked he has a lot of footy left.

Has been one of our most consistent mids over the past decade and his ability to play a more defensive midfield role (covering for defence weakness of Sam Mitchell / Lewis / hodge etc but now Mitchell/worpel/JOM) means he’s still one of the first picked. It’s the sameness of JOM/worpel/Mitchell that’s the issue rather than shiels.
Agree, Shiela is in our leadership group and still very important to our fortunes.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Shiels will play, i would like to see him trailed down back in the pocket as he enters his twilight ala M.Boyd.
Tough, uncompromising, a good decision maker. Could then look at moving Hardwick further up the ground.
That's what I was hoping for too. But we already have a few players vying for the non KPD positions, so I'm not sure how we'd work it out - Hardwick, Greaves, Impey, Scrimshaw, Day, Sicily and then Downie, CJ and Morrison. Even DGB can play an alternate 3rd tall role.
 

SammyC

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Shiels will play, i would like to see him trailed down back in the pocket as he enters his twilight ala M.Boyd.
Tough, uncompromising, a good decision maker. Could then look at moving Hardwick further up the ground.
Shiels is still underrated and underappreciated. Got better after the three peat, relentless competitor whose skills have improved at the back end of his career. On the downhill a bit now but far from our biggest problem.

Still I am very keen to see some time devoted to building some more flexibility in our mids. Worpel, O’Meara, Mitchell and shiels - not much versatility there, and limits mid time for Chad and others. This is the big problem that I hope we are addressing.

Shiels needs to play fwd or back, but fwd fills an obvious gap. O’Meara and worpel could also swing forward, and worpel probably off half back too.

Hope we are training for more players rotating through the middle and other positional options for our first choice mids to make us less predictable and make room for development.
 

Brishawk

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I'm not moving JOM out of our midfield to accommodate Shiels at the age of 30.
Madness.
Yeah absolutely. But rotating him forward to get a different mix in the middle should be an option. But he is a first choice mid second only to Mitchell in our squad. Maybe wingard will go past him this year if he plays a lot of midfield time.
 

Mrzohs

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Hope we are training for more players rotating through the middle and other positional options for our first choice mids to make us less predictable and make room for development.
100% listening to all Clarko pre season press it's exactly what he is doing. It's probably to the detriment of Finn, that Tom&Jom are primarily centre square players i think that will adjust this year. Clarko is making it necessary to play multiple spots if you are going to break in.

It will be nice to see the likes off Moore,Phillips,Breust,Day,Impey,
Brockman if they can start to come through the middle at times during quarters.
It makes the Tigs so effective always fresh and rotating, the pressure never falls away.
 

PhatHQ

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I'm not moving JOM out of our midfield to accommodate Shiels at the age of 30.
Madness.
Mitchell Wingard and Howe would be a pretty good combo IMO. It’s not a coincidence that Howe in the middle leads to more clearance (I think there is a stat floating around somewhere for that) and the addition of Wingard for that point of difference certainly gets Jags on the outside where he can show his class.
Jom Tom and Worps are 3 of the same see ball get ball types. fantastic for rotationand flexibility. If we can introduce Wingard, Phillips, Howe and Moore to that combination and push Jags, Shiels and Mitchell out for a spell, we will fair very well both in game plan and player TOG management.
That to me spells finals footy. Maybe not this year bet definitely next and that top 4 focus
 
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spudmaster

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Mitchell Wingard and Howe would be a pretty good combo IMO. It’s not a coincidence that Howe in the middle leads to more clearance (I think there is a stat floating around somewhere for that) and the addition of Wingard for that point of difference certainly gets Jags on the outside where he can show his class.
Jom Tom and Jags are 3 of the same see ball get ball types. fantastic for rotationand flexibility. If we can introduce Wingard, Phillips, Howe and Moore to that combination and push Jags, Shiels and Mitchell out for a spell, we will fair very well both in game plan and player TOG management.
That to me spells finals footy. Maybe not this year bet definitely next and that top 4 focus
And two of the same people ;)
 

Toasted

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Shiels will play, i would like to see him trailed down back in the pocket as he enters his twilight ala M.Boyd.
Tough, uncompromising, a good decision maker. Could then look at moving Hardwick further up the ground.
I agree with this, just I’m seeing him at the other end of the ground. Defensive forward who can snag a couple of goals. I’d love to see how effective these running half back are when they are getting a proper midfield tag.
 

LMGjr

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O'Meara needs to elevate himself to super consistent AA Caliber inside mid! A goal kicking dangerous mid at that. I see him getting moved around wing/half frwd as a cop out. Rest deep in the frwd half but 70% as a inside bull!
The funny thing is that HFFs and wingers are usually very skillful, especially by foot ..................:think:

So, I guess I agree with you.
 

matey

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Like the sound of some of the new combinations running through the middle as per the Clarko way ...... green behind the ears but hey that’s where we are at.
 

houdinihuddo

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I attended the intra club practice match on Thursday and The Axeman's post 2481 on page 100 is a brilliantly inciteful report on the game. Accordingly there is little I can add on individual players.

cryptor asked "How did we go today with the new rules around manning the mark?"
MrPremiership asked "Any comments on tactical changes? More corridor play? faster tempo?
Also, how did our forward lines go? Find space? Open?"

I think there were three 50 metre penalties, two for gimme goals and one deep in defense. There were less penalties than in the previous practice match because the umpires rightly called play on when the player moved to the side and that was a real positive. What was really evident with the change to the manning the mark rule was no sideways movement opened up the corridor for forward ball movement and as a result there was no need for backward ball movement to avoid the man on the mark. In addition opening the corridor meant there were less defensive kicks down the boundary. The man on the mark can no longer move across to defend the corridor and force a more defendable kick.

Therefore there was more corridor play and a faster tempo however it might simply be a tactical change required because of the rule change. The forward line set up was different with players less grouped with one running into space to reduce zone defense. What was particularly pleasing there was no bombing a ball high deep into the forward line. Jeka at CHF could be a weapon with his long spearing kicks in front of his team mates.

The scores were:
Blue 3.2.20 10.4.64 12.8.80 17.11.113
Orange 4.1.25 6.2 38 6.4.40 7.6.48
At half time the players left the ground and sat down on the grass in the shade under the trees. Due to the heat, in the last quarter there was a drinks break with 8 minute to play and play ended with one minute to play.

The game opened with McEvoy in the ruck. I've been very impressed with his leadership. He has actively encouraged players to push themselves. Maginess/Downie and Brockman/Phillips started on the wings. Multiple players rotated through the centre and wings. The reduction in rotations to 75 will probably see the end of multiple rotations when goals are kicked and more players rotating through the wing and flanks closest to the interchange bench to conserve energy.

The BHH players included Vince Adduci, James Blanck, Lachie Bramble, Fergus Greene, Stu Horner, Trent Mynott, Jai Newcombe and Callum Porter. Add Jordan Cunico, Josh Deluca and Ed Phillips who played in previous practice matches and I'm really excited about watching the BHH in 2021.

I'm confident we'll perform far better this year with greater competition for places in the team given some exciting and quality additions to our list. There are also seven players who have played 40 to 90 games and could have break out years.

Morrison - DOB 12/11/98, 42 games. His reading of the play and linking up has been very good in all the simulation and match practices.
Worpel - DOB 24/06/99, 48 games. He is looking leaner and covering more ground.
Hardwick - DOB 05/02/97, 82 games. He is fitter, stronger and faster and has been playing on taller opponents. He is kicking longer.
Phillips - DOB 07/05/96, 89 games. A great ready made replacement for 32 year old Isaac Smith.
Howe - DOB 04/12/95, 67 games. After an interrupted pre-season he has been very good over the last month. His bigger body is something we need.
Ceglar - DOB 14/02/91, 89 games. He has enjoyed his first injury free pre-season so hopefully he will compete strongly at the centre bounces. His work around the ground has certainly improved.
O'Brien - DOB 28/03/94, 78 games. He is looking stronger. He was outplayed by DGB in the first practice match, however he was very good with six goals in last week's practice match. His best is good however the question remains can he perform at a consistently high level. I hope so because his versatility would be an asset.
 

BJK#5

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Agreed.

In terms of development, for the entire list, I can't see how dropping Shiels last year and getting another 5 games or so into Moore and/or Finn (as examples) would have hurt anyone, especially once the season was dead. The same can be said for Scully Hendo and Stratts. We've seen this happen in other dead seasons where under-preforming senior players just kept their spot no matter what.

The bolded part is all we've ask for, even though we all know that Clarko is as stubborn as a mule and has 4 premiership medallions to show for it.
Because dropping leaders for kids when they are not up to it does not do anything to fast track a rebuild.

Despite dropping off last year Shiels was still clearly best 22, Finn was not ready for regular AFL footy last year and picking him just to get games is not a great way to prepare them for it.

The obsession this board seems to have with Shiels is a bit of a confusing one he is not in our bottom 6 players yet some people have an issue with his spot in the team.
 

Bugs1977

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I attended the intra club practice match on Thursday and The Axeman's post 2481 on page 100 is a brilliantly inciteful report on the game. Accordingly there is little I can add on individual players.

cryptor asked "How did we go today with the new rules around manning the mark?"
MrPremiership asked "Any comments on tactical changes? More corridor play? faster tempo?
Also, how did our forward lines go? Find space? Open?"

I think there were three 50 metre penalties, two for gimme goals and one deep in defense. There were less penalties than in the previous practice match because the umpires rightly called play on when the player moved to the side and that was a real positive. What was really evident with the change to the manning the mark rule was no sideways movement opened up the corridor for forward ball movement and as a result there was no need for backward ball movement to avoid the man on the mark. In addition opening the corridor meant there were less defensive kicks down the boundary. The man on the mark can no longer move across to defend the corridor and force a more defendable kick.

Therefore there was more corridor play and a faster tempo however it might simply be a tactical change required because of the rule change. The forward line set up was different with players less grouped with one running into space to reduce zone defense. What was particularly pleasing there was no bombing a ball high deep into the forward line. Jeka at CHF could be a weapon with his long spearing kicks in front of his team mates.

The scores were:
Blue 3.2.20 10.4.64 12.8.80 17.11.113
Orange 4.1.25 6.2 38 6.4.40 7.6.48
At half time the players left the ground and sat down on the grass in the shade under the trees. Due to the heat, in the last quarter there was a drinks break with 8 minute to play and play ended with one minute to play.

The game opened with McEvoy in the ruck. I've been very impressed with his leadership. He has actively encouraged players to push themselves. Maginess/Downie and Brockman/Phillips started on the wings. Multiple players rotated through the centre and wings. The reduction in rotations to 75 will probably see the end of multiple rotations when goals are kicked and more players rotating through the wing and flanks closest to the interchange bench to conserve energy.

The BHH players included Vince Adduci, James Blanck, Lachie Bramble, Fergus Greene, Stu Horner, Trent Mynott, Jai Newcombe and Callum Porter. Add Jordan Cunico, Josh Deluca and Ed Phillips who played in previous practice matches and I'm really excited about watching the BHH in 2021.

I'm confident we'll perform far better this year with greater competition for places in the team given some exciting and quality additions to our list. There are also seven players who have played 40 to 90 games and could have break out years.

Morrison - DOB 12/11/98, 42 games. His reading of the play and linking up has been very good in all the simulation and match practices.
Worpel - DOB 24/06/99, 48 games. He is looking leaner and covering more ground.
Hardwick - DOB 05/02/97, 82 games. He is fitter, stronger and faster and has been playing on taller opponents. He is kicking longer.
Phillips - DOB 07/05/96, 89 games. A great ready made replacement for 32 year old Isaac Smith.
Howe - DOB 04/12/95, 67 games. After an interrupted pre-season he has been very good over the last month. His bigger body is something we need.
Ceglar - DOB 14/02/91, 89 games. He has enjoyed his first injury free pre-season so hopefully he will compete strongly at the centre bounces. His work around the ground has certainly improved.
O'Brien - DOB 28/03/94, 78 games. He is looking stronger. He was outplayed by DGB in the first practice match, however he was very good with six goals in last week's practice match. His best is good however the question remains can he perform at a consistently high level. I hope so because his versatility would be an asset.
Thanks H. Much appreciated cherry on top of what The_Axeman delivered the other day. You 2 are like beauty and the beast but I’ll let you guys fight over who is / isn’t ‘the beast’ 😂
 

Dewnior

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Dec 22, 2007
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I'm not moving JOM out of our midfield to accommodate Shiels at the age of 30.
Madness.
Agree, but would you do it to accommodate Finn / Cousins?

Yeah absolutely. But rotating him forward to get a different mix in the middle should be an option. But he is a first choice mid second only to Mitchell in our squad. Maybe wingard will go past him this year if he plays a lot of midfield time.
Or rotating him into the backline to set up play.

JOM seems to have a versatile skillset like Silk.
 

bris tarangau

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I attended the intra club practice match on Thursday and The Axeman's post 2481 on page 100 is a brilliantly inciteful report on the game. Accordingly there is little I can add on individual players.

cryptor asked "How did we go today with the new rules around manning the mark?"
MrPremiership asked "Any comments on tactical changes? More corridor play? faster tempo?
Also, how did our forward lines go? Find space? Open?"

I think there were three 50 metre penalties, two for gimme goals and one deep in defense. There were less penalties than in the previous practice match because the umpires rightly called play on when the player moved to the side and that was a real positive. What was really evident with the change to the manning the mark rule was no sideways movement opened up the corridor for forward ball movement and as a result there was no need for backward ball movement to avoid the man on the mark. In addition opening the corridor meant there were less defensive kicks down the boundary. The man on the mark can no longer move across to defend the corridor and force a more defendable kick.

Therefore there was more corridor play and a faster tempo however it might simply be a tactical change required because of the rule change. The forward line set up was different with players less grouped with one running into space to reduce zone defense. What was particularly pleasing there was no bombing a ball high deep into the forward line. Jeka at CHF could be a weapon with his long spearing kicks in front of his team mates.

The scores were:
Blue 3.2.20 10.4.64 12.8.80 17.11.113
Orange 4.1.25 6.2 38 6.4.40 7.6.48
At half time the players left the ground and sat down on the grass in the shade under the trees. Due to the heat, in the last quarter there was a drinks break with 8 minute to play and play ended with one minute to play.

The game opened with McEvoy in the ruck. I've been very impressed with his leadership. He has actively encouraged players to push themselves. Maginess/Downie and Brockman/Phillips started on the wings. Multiple players rotated through the centre and wings. The reduction in rotations to 75 will probably see the end of multiple rotations when goals are kicked and more players rotating through the wing and flanks closest to the interchange bench to conserve energy.

The BHH players included Vince Adduci, James Blanck, Lachie Bramble, Fergus Greene, Stu Horner, Trent Mynott, Jai Newcombe and Callum Porter. Add Jordan Cunico, Josh Deluca and Ed Phillips who played in previous practice matches and I'm really excited about watching the BHH in 2021.

I'm confident we'll perform far better this year with greater competition for places in the team given some exciting and quality additions to our list. There are also seven players who have played 40 to 90 games and could have break out years.

Morrison - DOB 12/11/98, 42 games. His reading of the play and linking up has been very good in all the simulation and match practices.
Worpel - DOB 24/06/99, 48 games. He is looking leaner and covering more ground.
Hardwick - DOB 05/02/97, 82 games. He is fitter, stronger and faster and has been playing on taller opponents. He is kicking longer.
Phillips - DOB 07/05/96, 89 games. A great ready made replacement for 32 year old Isaac Smith.
Howe - DOB 04/12/95, 67 games. After an interrupted pre-season he has been very good over the last month. His bigger body is something we need.
Ceglar - DOB 14/02/91, 89 games. He has enjoyed his first injury free pre-season so hopefully he will compete strongly at the centre bounces. His work around the ground has certainly improved.
O'Brien - DOB 28/03/94, 78 games. He is looking stronger. He was outplayed by DGB in the first practice match, however he was very good with six goals in last week's practice match. His best is good however the question remains can he perform at a consistently high level. I hope so because his versatility would be an asset.
Thankyou Houdini. A great read.
Appreciate the work that people like you and Axeman put in, to keep us (those that live interstate) informed.
 

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