Training 2021 Pre Season training watch

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burner1

Club Legend
Nov 3, 2005
1,811
1,024
victoria
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hawks
Thanks Axeman - much appreciated.

How did Lewis look? Any signs we’ll see the late 2019 version vs the 2020 version? A Jeka and Lewis combo would be enough to get even the most cynical hawks supporter excited.

Class and speed were not two words associated with JOM in 2020 (more likely butcher and plodder). Noting it’s very early days can you see much difference from last pre-season?
 

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JaegarTime

Senior List
Jul 11, 2018
217
694
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thanks Axeman - much appreciated.

How did Lewis look? Any signs we’ll see the late 2019 version vs the 2020 version? A Jeka and Lewis combo would be enough to get even the most cynical hawks supporter excited.

Class and speed were not two words associated with JOM in 2020 (more likely butcher and plodder). Noting it’s very early days can you see much difference from last pre-season?
O’Meara has never been a plodder. Actually has good speed. The comment about his disposal I agree with.
 

Hodginator

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 1, 2010
5,773
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Melbourne
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Omeara has inconsistent disposal, Richmond game he went at 90% in the rain, can recall he played a bit more outside. The reason why it looks bad at times is because it’s after his just won a clearance against 3 blokes...
He was hitting everything in that game. Hopefully he can play more of that outside role next season with some more inside support.
 

Judd2Sewell

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 31, 2008
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Omeara has inconsistent disposal, Richmond game he went at 90% in the rain, can recall he played a bit more outside. The reason why it looks bad at times is because it’s after his just won a clearance against 3 blokes...
Yep, he was busy fighting off multiple players. It's definitely inconsistent, but it can be good. Hopefully we free him up a bit more this season.
 

HAWKSBESTEVA

Club Legend
Jun 14, 2020
1,710
2,990
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Yep, he was busy fighting off multiple players. It's definitely inconsistent, but it can be good. Hopefully we free him up a bit more this season.
Mate he was the only one winning trying to take the game on in the middle which led to poor disposal at time! If we free him up on the outside we’ll see the silky class jaeger at the suns.
 

hawkdork83

Rookie
Dec 10, 2020
38
75
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Just look at his Gold Coast highlights when he was on the outside, skill and silkiness with the ball.
He wasn't on the outside at Gold Coast. He was inside with a crazy ability to burst from stoppages. It was honestly Judd like, hence the industry wide excitement. Sadly, post injury he has lost this ability to break from stoppages. Aside from one game against the Tigers where he looked back to that generational talent, he wasn't playing outside in this game.

That said, I do agree with comments to play him more on the outside as I don't think he is as bad a kick as number 3 for clangers and number 12 for turnovers in the AFL in 2020. I also think he has straight line speed which we lack and is the most likely of our predominate midfield mix to hit the scoreboard. I would like to see a bit of Crawford with him at stoppages, try and release him to take the ball away from the stoppage.
 

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Lickmesocks

All Australian
Oct 2, 2019
893
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Dropped in to have a captain cook.

I firmly believe in what I am seeing with the energy from the youth is that the days of us chasing big names and missing and then settling for cheap high priced “bargains” are done.

We have to build from within. We are nowhere near a premiership with the cattle we have but we need to keep building with youth and energy.

No more chasing the money ball dream from injured run down players that we believe we are going to work miracles on.
 

darthmann

Club Legend
Jun 11, 2013
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Dropped in to have a captain cook.

I firmly believe in what I am seeing with the energy from the youth is that the days of us chasing big names and missing and then settling for cheap high priced “bargains” are done.

We have to build from within. We are nowhere near a premiership with the cattle we have but we need to keep building with youth and energy.

No more chasing the money ball dream from injured run down players that we believe we are going to work miracles on.
i seriously dont get this take and how often it's repeated

who other than Scully and Patton fit that mould?

Scrimshaw is the only other one I can think of and that seems to have worked out alright. I agree in that we need to build a nucleus of young players first and foremost and then surround them with outside talent once done but the 'injured cheap Moneyball' narrative seems to apply to the HFC when the only two that negatively fit the bill (off the top of my head) are the GWS boys, and Scully wasn't even that bad in 2019

maybe im missing a few players but i think our problem has been trading overs for guns that haven't lived up to expectation, a few misses on mid-late picks (hard to get right anyway) more than flicking off near-valueless draft picks three times (especially when you could argue you got better value from 2/3)

i mean does anyone have a problem with us picking up an out-of-form Phillips for pick 65? how is that any different?
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
6,251
13,841
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Dropped in to have a captain cook.

I firmly believe in what I am seeing with the energy from the youth is that the days of us chasing big names and missing and then settling for cheap high priced “bargains” are done.

We have to build from within. We are nowhere near a premiership with the cattle we have but we need to keep building with youth and energy.

No more chasing the money ball dream from injured run down players that we believe we are going to work miracles on.
We needed to make those moves to improve the makeup of our list. If we didn't do that and went balls deep in the draft with the limited picks we would have had available, there'd be an absolute dearth of talent in the mid to late 20s as we had far too many 30+ leave all within a few years.

Blokes like Scully, Frost and Hartigan are great pick ups because they were cheap to get, they're handy to meet minimum player payments and they're all hard workers and great trainers who help to instill those qualities into the kids we get. They take hits and help compete.

As far as recovering and rebounding from a sustained period of excellence with one of the best lists in the history of the game, I feel we've done better to rework the makeup of our list than most similar teams in recent history.
 

Noel Gallagher

Club Legend
Oct 3, 2006
1,402
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Manchester
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i seriously dont get this take and how often it's repeated

who other than Scully and Patton fit that mould?

Scrimshaw is the only other one I can think of and that seems to have worked out alright. I agree in that we need to build a nucleus of young players first and foremost and then surround them with outside talent once done but the 'injured cheap Moneyball' narrative seems to apply to the HFC when the only two that negatively fit the bill (off the top of my head) are the GWS boys, and Scully wasn't even that bad in 2019

maybe im missing a few players but i think our problem has been trading overs for guns that haven't lived up to expectation, a few misses on mid-late picks (hard to get right anyway) more than flicking off near-valueless draft picks three times (especially when you could argue you got better value from 2/3)

i mean does anyone have a problem with us picking up an out-of-form Phillips for pick 65? how is that any different?
I agree completely with LMS. To clarify what his main point is (correct me if I am wrong) we desperately need to move away from injury riddled money ball players i.e Patton and Scully. We are not in a premiership window so what is the point going forward? At the time we recruited both club believed we were in the window which didn't work for a variety of reasons.

Re Phillips he is young - 24, NOT injury riddled and has some good runs on the board as a winger - totally different prospect to Patton and Scully.
 

Beandip

Club Legend
Sep 22, 2010
2,181
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Hobart
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I'm a little confused by the moneyball stuff as well. Some of these injury-affected players we've brought in are with fourth rounders etc... I'd argue their performance is better than the average of their equivalent pick most days.
  • Vickery and Patton are absolute busts even for whatever we gave up.
  • We gave up a lot for Jaeger, and he's staying on the park now, but his output needs to be a lot better (perhaps being freed up to do more outside work will be the key).
  • We gave up a first rounder for Mitchel, but you generally dream of a first rounder delivering what Mitchell has/will.
  • We gave up a bit for Wingard, Burton has hardly gone on to rule the world; and the balance of picks generally don't result in a player of Wingard's calibre. I'm confident we'll end up 'winning the trade' when Wingard settles a bit and has the right support around him.
  • Most forth rounders never play, so Scully is well ahead of that. As is Scrimshaw - Hartigan and Phillips will end up the same as well.
The other side of this is that we can't keep talking about 'should have hit the draft' - with what? Most of our picks were in the teens; that wasn't going to suddenly rebuild us... and 'we should have traded Gunston/Breust while they had value', that can end up hurting you in other ways (like damaging our culture, or the quality of mentoring new recruits get).
 

arupist

Premium Platinum
Oct 2, 2005
6,272
9,086
Sydney
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Replacing a team of superstars was always going to be a difficult task. It will take a few years.

Many here are keen to see the continuation of the form of Cousins, Greaves and Moore from last season. If this happens we have got lucky - a pick 67 and two rookies. Would these guys have got a chance if we weren't travelling poorly as a team? Would they have shown anything at all if there wasn't a Frost or Scully or O'Meara or Mitchell or Winguard around to help? These trade-ins are essential to give the younger guys a chance. They may not last when for the next big dance but they do a job. Over time, as youngsters develop, they will drop out of the side. Then there is Jeka (another rookie), who is unproven but has some wraps. Lewis (pick 76) can continue to develop as well. Not all gems have to come from the top end of the draft. Sicily was pick 56, remember.

There is no point in lamenting the state of the list until the rebuild is complete. Maybe in another two years. But there is enough there for us, as supporters, to enjoy the ride as long as we don't expect a flag in the near future. Took 17 years between 91 and 08. Then another 5 even with a truly elite core. Flags are not easy to win. So the last 5 years without success is no real surprise when you lose that elite core. Question is how do you replace it? Will take many years via the draft. Perhaps trade one in, a la Silk.
 

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