Training 2021 Pre Season training watch

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Brishawk said:
This whole conversation has a high level of confirmation bias.
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Indeed. People pointing to "successful clubs draft talent" is insanely short sighted for a few reasons.

1. It ignores the fact that trades were far rarer in the past and drafting was the only method by which teams managed their list
2. It ignores all the teams that tried to draft a talented list and failed
3. There's not enough of a sample size against drafting to make a case that it doesn't work

It wasn't even attempted in any real way until the 2010s. Since then, the percentage of top end players being traded, and top end traded players in Grand Finalists has gone up.

It's insane to think that 5 of the last 11 Brownlow Medallists won the award at a club different to where they were drafted, and only 2 in the 20 years beforehand.
 
Quite a few of the seniors missing today but got a really good look at some of the young guys.

- Tom Phillips looks like he’ll slide straight in with no hassle.
- Downie tried his guts out and got around everyone after all the drills, got high hopes for him.
- Reeves has filled out a lot and is actually looking good from what I saw.
- Maginess is a running machine. He was running up and down the centre during the match sim and then took out all 3 lap runs. In ripping shape.
- Brockman is someone I watched a lot of and I’m so excited by him. He has such a beautiful natural kick. Really looking forward to watching him develop.
- Shaggy did well, took part in most things. Definitely needs to fill out a bit.
- Hartigan is huge and looked to be fitting in well, took some nice marks.

Those are the ones I took notice of most
 

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Brishawk said:
Prestia isn’t one of their best midfielders? Houli wasn’t one of their best players? Lynch not their best kpp?

this whole conversation has a high level of confirmation bias. Go back to the 2004 draft onwards and look at how many first and second round picks flopped for Richmond. basically they just kept drafting until they got a few stars to align and then they traded in some guns from other clubs. Let’s not forget it took decades of drafting for that to happen.

Now you do need to use the draft and the chances of getting a star are better in the top ten (particularly the top 5) but there is so much luck involved draft alone is not a viable strategy. You want to build a squad that is attractive enough to stars to want to join up as trades and free agents. That is the list management game now.
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I think you've misunderstood what I was saying, as you can see that Lynch, Prestia and Houli are all on the list there.

Their best midfielders and KPF were first round picks. I made no mention of Richmond picking all of them, I just pointed out the base fact that they were first rounders.

I agree completely that you need to trade effectively and lure FA role players (or outright stars in Richmond's case).
 
Finally got to my first session of the pre-season on a cold & damp day at Waverley. Last session for the year.

Mostly younger guys, but with a smattering of senior players.

T4P's post pretty much covers it but I will add my own thoughts.

Stand outs for the session overall were Damon Greaves & Connor Downie with Scrimshaw, Impey, Lewis, Moore, Hartigan & Brockman all very prominent during the match sim drills.

Greaves was outstanding all morning getting involved in the contest at every opportunity thanks to his ability to read the play and then using his evasiveness and near perfect disposal as attacking weapons.

Downie is a jet. Clean picks up without breaking stride, line breaking kicking, good pace. Very at home amongst it all. Had myself and houdinihuddo gasping at an exhilarating piece of play when he ran onto to the loose bouncing ball with an opponent coming right at him, took clean possession, pivoted around the opponent and roosted it down the wing to a team mate. Shades of Will Day early last pre-season.

Scrimshaw was intercept marking almost anything that came in, much like Siciliy would be doing, and was at times getting a fair way up the ground to deliver to the fwd 50, much like Birchall used to do. Perhaps it will be Scrim to take the Sicily role and DGB to take the Scrimshaw role?

Moore was running amok in the match sims playing a midfield role. Very lively and tough, wsa getting in and under and coming out with the ball. I'm very glad we kept him on our list because I think he offers some of what we lack.

Impey playing off half back was a little rusty with his disposal at first but came good with some insanely good kicks to teammates. His pace and evasiveness was on full display. Very hard for anyone to stop once he gets moving.

Lewis marked everything that came his way, one grab marks. Admittedly the pressure was not massive but it was good to see him confidently taking grabs. he is noticeably bigger across the shoulders and chest.

Having read how massive Hartigan is, I can confirm that this is not his only good attribute. The man can play. As T4P said, he is not quick like Frawley, but he has very good pair of hands and his kicking is good, definitely better than Frawley's. Insanely good value pickup.

Brockman will be the first to debut out of the newbies I reckon. Extreme pace, great marking, good disposal. I like the Harley Bennell comparisons. very accurate I think.

Should also mention Kosi. Played in both halves and was effective as the link up man delivering to the fwd 50. Also defended well as the last line of defence.

Reeves is improving but still a little way off. he has definitely filled out. Very imposing guy. Hopefully he can learn to use his size well.

Good to see Tom Philips out there. He is a good size for a wingman. Very strong guy, can see why is able to get his own ball and is not just a stereotypical wingman. Pick 62 was it? Ridiculous :roflv1:

Was great to See Downie really push himself in the time trial and come third just behind Finn & CJ. I was also impressed with Kosi's effort finishing 6th.

That's it. Will add anything I remember later. See you in Jan 2021.
 
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Hopefully Brockman will allow Wingard to play in the midfield.
 
Judd2Sewell said:
Refer to the above post. I was pointing out that their best midfielders and KPF are all first round picks. That's an indisputable fact.

I made no mention of trading, luring FA's or performing a deep dive on their list. It was just a simple fact, I suppose it's more a comment about where the talent in their side was drafted.
Click to expand...
Yes mate and we have got in two players of the last couple of years that are high end draft picks. The Richmond draft picks were over how many years?
 
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TheFourPillars said:
Yes mate and we have got in two players of the last couple of years that are high end draft picks. The Richmond draft picks were over how many years?
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to compare them with us, I was just looking at the draft positions of their players.

FWIW I love what we've done in the draft recently. Day, Finn, Downie, Brockman and DGB in particular. I'm looking forward to seeing Mitchell and Morris in action too.
 
The_Axeman said:
Finally got to my first session of the pre-season on a cold & damp day at Waverley. Last session for the year.

Mostly younger guys, but with a smattering of senior players.

T4P's post pretty much covers it but I will add my own thoughts.

Stand outs for the session overall were Damon Greaves & Connor Downie with Scrimshaw, Impey, Lewis, Moore, Hartigan & Brockman all very prominent during the match sim drills.

Greaves was outstanding all morning getting involved in the contest at every opportunity thanks to his ability to read the play and then using his evasiveness and near perfect disposal as attacking weapons.

Downie is a jet. Clean picks up without breaking stride, line breaking kicking, good pace. Very at home amongst it all. Had myself and houdinihuddo gasping at an exhilarating piece of play when he ran onto to the loose bouncing ball with an opponent coming right at him, took clean possession, pivoted around the opponent and roosted it down the wing to a team mate. Shades of Will Day early last pre-season.

Scrimshaw was intercept marking almost anything that came in, much like Siciliy would be doing, and was at times getting a fair way up the ground to deliver to the fwd 50, much like Birchall used to do. Perhaps it will be Scrim to take the Sicily role and DGB to take the Scrimshaw role?

Moore was running amok in the match sims playing a midfield role. Very lively and tough, wsa getting in and under and coming out with the ball. I'm very glad we kept him on our list because I think he offers some of what we lack.

Impey playing off half back was a little rusty with his disposal at first but came good with some insanely good kicks to teammates. His pace and evasiveness was on full display. Very hard for anyone to stop once he gets moving.

Lewis marked everything that came his way, one grab marks. Admittedly the pressure was not massive but it was good to see him confidently taking grabs. he is noticeably bigger across the shoulders and chest.

Having read how massive Hartigan is, I can confirm that this is not his only good attribute. The man can play. As T4P said, he is not quick like Frawley, but he has very good pair of hands and his kicking is good, definitely better than Frawley's. Insanely good value pickup.

Brockman will be the first to debut out of the newbies I reckon. Extreme pace, great marking, good disposal. I like the Harley Bennell comparisons. very accurate I think.

Should also mention Kosi. Played in both halves and was effective as the link up man delivering to the fwd 50. Also defended well as the last line of defence.

Reeves is improving but still a little way off. he has definitely filled out. Very imposing guy. Hopefully he can learn to use his size well.

Good to see Tom Philips out there. He is a good size for a wingman. Very strong guy, can see why is able to get his own ball and is not just a stereotypical wingman. Pick 62 was it? Ridiculous :roflv1:

Was great to See Downie really push himself in the time trial and come third just behind Finn & CJ. I was also impressed with Kosi's effort finishing 6th.

That's it. Will add anything I remember later. See you in Jan 2021.
Click to expand...
“Downie is a jet ...”

1608260885084.gif
 
The_Axeman said:
Finally got to my first session of the pre-season on a cold & damp day at Waverley. Last session for the year.

Mostly younger guys, but with a smattering of senior players.

T4P's post pretty much covers it but I will add my own thoughts.

Stand outs for the session overall were Damon Greaves & Connor Downie with Scrimshaw, Impey, Lewis, Moore, Hartigan & Brockman all very prominent during the match sim drills.

Greaves was outstanding all morning getting involved in the contest at every opportunity thanks to his ability to read the play and then using his evasiveness and near perfect disposal as attacking weapons.

Downie is a jet. Clean picks up without breaking stride, line breaking kicking, good pace. Very at home amongst it all. Had myself and houdinihuddo gasping at an exhilarating piece of play when he ran onto to the loose bouncing ball with an opponent coming right at him, took clean possession, pivoted around the opponent and roosted it down the wing to a team mate. Shades of Will Day early last pre-season.

Scrimshaw was intercept marking almost anything that came in, much like Siciliy would be doing, and was at times getting a fair way up the ground to deliver to the fwd 50, much like Birchall used to do. Perhaps it will be Scrim to take the Sicily role and DGB to take the Scrimshaw role?

Moore was running amok in the match sims playing a midfield role. Very lively and tough, wsa getting in and under and coming out with the ball. I'm very glad we kept him on our list because I think he offers some of what we lack.

Impey playing off half back was a little rusty with his disposal at first but came good with some insanely good kicks to teammates. His pace and evasiveness was on full display. Very hard for anyone to stop once he gets moving.

Lewis marked everything that came his way, one grab marks. Admittedly the pressure was not massive but it was good to see him confidently taking grabs. he is noticeably bigger across the shoulders and chest.

Having read how massive Hartigan is, I can confirm that this is not his only good attribute. The man can play. As T4P said, he is not quick like Frawley, but he has very good pair of hands and his kicking is good, definitely better than Frawley's. Insanely good value pickup.

Brockman will be the first to debut out of the newbies I reckon. Extreme pace, great marking, good disposal. I like the Harley Bennell comparisons. very accurate I think.

Should also mention Kosi. Played in both halves and was effective as the link up man delivering to the fwd 50. Also defended well as the last line of defence.

Reeves is improving but still a little way off. he has definitely filled out. Very imposing guy. Hopefully he can learn to use his size well.

Good to see Tom Philips out there. He is a good size for a wingman. Very strong guy, can see why is able to get his own ball and is not just a stereotypical wingman. Pick 62 was it? Ridiculous :roflv1:

Was great to See Downie really push himself in the time trial and come third just behind Finn & CJ. I was also impressed with Kosi's effort finishing 6th.

That's it. Will add anything I remember later. See you in Jan 2021.
Click to expand...
I love and appreciate all of the preseason reports but there's just something about your ones Axeman that leave me feeling like

BlissfulSorrowfulGalago-max-1mb.gif
 

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The_Axeman said:
Finally got to my first session of the pre-season on a cold & damp day at Waverley. Last session for the year.

Mostly younger guys, but with a smattering of senior players.

T4P's post pretty much covers it but I will add my own thoughts.

Stand outs for the session overall were Damon Greaves & Connor Downie with Scrimshaw, Impey, Lewis, Moore, Hartigan & Brockman all very prominent during the match sim drills.

Greaves was outstanding all morning getting involved in the contest at every opportunity thanks to his ability to read the play and then using his evasiveness and near perfect disposal as attacking weapons.

Downie is a jet. Clean picks up without breaking stride, line breaking kicking, good pace. Very at home amongst it all. Had myself and houdinihuddo gasping at an exhilarating piece of play when he ran onto to the loose bouncing ball with an opponent coming right at him, took clean possession, pivoted around the opponent and roosted it down the wing to a team mate. Shades of Will Day early last pre-season.

Scrimshaw was intercept marking almost anything that came in, much like Siciliy would be doing, and was at times getting a fair way up the ground to deliver to the fwd 50, much like Birchall used to do. Perhaps it will be Scrim to take the Sicily role and DGB to take the Scrimshaw role?

Moore was running amok in the match sims playing a midfield role. Very lively and tough, wsa getting in and under and coming out with the ball. I'm very glad we kept him on our list because I think he offers some of what we lack.

Impey playing off half back was a little rusty with his disposal at first but came good with some insanely good kicks to teammates. His pace and evasiveness was on full display. Very hard for anyone to stop once he gets moving.

Lewis marked everything that came his way, one grab marks. Admittedly the pressure was not massive but it was good to see him confidently taking grabs. he is noticeably bigger across the shoulders and chest.

Having read how massive Hartigan is, I can confirm that this is not his only good attribute. The man can play. As T4P said, he is not quick like Frawley, but he has very good pair of hands and his kicking is good, definitely better than Frawley's. Insanely good value pickup.

Brockman will be the first to debut out of the newbies I reckon. Extreme pace, great marking, good disposal. I like the Harley Bennell comparisons. very accurate I think.

Should also mention Kosi. Played in both halves and was effective as the link up man delivering to the fwd 50. Also defended well as the last line of defence.

Reeves is improving but still a little way off. he has definitely filled out. Very imposing guy. Hopefully he can learn to use his size well.

Good to see Tom Philips out there. He is a good size for a wingman. Very strong guy, can see why is able to get his own ball and is not just a stereotypical wingman. Pick 62 was it? Ridiculous :roflv1:

Was great to See Downie really push himself in the time trial and come third just behind Finn & CJ. I was also impressed with Kosi's effort finishing 6th.

That's it. Will add anything I remember later. See you in Jan 2021.
Click to expand...


randymarsh.jpg

Love your work. No mention of Jeka today, was he out there?
 
Impey down back, Wingard in the midfield, Brockman up forward, Day and Phillips on the wings will give us some speed on the flanks.

One thing I want to see is McEvoy starting in the ruck come Round 1. A backline of Hartigan, Frost, Grainger-Barras and McEvoy won’t work. McEvoy goes back into the ruck, or he plays as a marking forward.
 
WWSD said:
Impey down back, Wingard in the midfield, Brockman up forward, Day and Phillips on the wings will give us some speed on the flanks.

One thing I want to see is McEvoy starting in the ruck come Round 1. A backline of Hartigan, Frost, Grainger-Barras and McEvoy won’t work. McEvoy goes back into the ruck, or he plays as a marking forward.
Click to expand...

Spot on.

Hartigan and Frost have to take the KPD if DGB isn't physically ready to go up against them.
 
RustyHawk said:
Final pre season training session for 2020 held today at Waverley Park. Weather was essentially crap.

Welcome to Tom Phillips. First training session for him since joining the club. Did ok, looks like we have a winner :)

Lots of players out there with a lot of the senior players missing.

Of the players out there probably near half on restricted duties!

About 20 took part in the match sims going obviously 10 a side with an assistant coach or two thrown into the mix.

When I left the session was ending in some lovely runs around the oval.

The good from that. Finn McG 1st with CJ right on his shoulder. Really good to see was Conor Downie just 2 seconds behind with in the mix Dylan Moore not far away. That is the good. The bad was a minute behind, Ned Reeves..ok, big lumbering ruckman are not built for sprints but worse was Josh Morris who at one stage was last and managed to claw his way to 2nd last.

While that was going on, Tom Phillips and Shaun Burgoyne were doing shorter sprints in the middle of the field.


Damon Greaves worked hard. Should be a slips fielder for Australia. His ability to mark the ball as it rebounded off a javelin during kick with the left then kick with your right was excellent.

TOM was working mainly on his own. Running, running running.

TOB in the rehab group along with Howe, Seamus (better say than S Mitchell), James Cousins & Conor Nash. I am sure I have missed some more..

Did not see JOM, Big Boy, Ceglar, Patton, Gunston, Breust, Sicily, Frost, Wingard, Shiels and Scully among others.


Hardwick, Impey, Mitchell Lewis and Worps all trained hard right throughout the session.

New guy Hartigan is a BIG unit but no surprises, not a fast runner over distance at the end of a long 2 hour training run.
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Sicily was there just wandering around. Will not join in rehab group until after the break.

Sam Mitchell is calling Seamus - Seamus O’Mitchell. He will be ready for the Tour De France if he keeps up the bike work.

im surprised Hanrahan didn’t train. After watching him on Monday in his only session so far he needs the endurance work. Blew up badly in a year he needs to cement his position.

Howe is looking super fit. If he can stay injury free he could be the big bodied midfielder we so badly need.
 
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Dutchy16 said:
Sicily was there just wandering around. Will not join in rehab group until after the break.

Sam Mitchell is calling Seamus - Seamus O’Mitchell. He will be ready for the Tour De France if he keeps up the bike work.

im surprised Hanrahan didn’t train. After watching him on Monday in his only session so far he needs the endurance work. Blew up badly in a year he needs to cement his position.

Howe is looking super fit. If he can stay injury free he could be the big bodied midfielder we so badly need.
Click to expand...

I reckon his nickname should be SOM… Son of Michell :)
 
WWSD said:
Impey down back, Wingard in the midfield, Brockman up forward, Day and Phillips on the wings will give us some speed on the flanks.

One thing I want to see is McEvoy starting in the ruck come Round 1. A backline of Hartigan, Frost, Grainger-Barras and McEvoy won’t work. McEvoy goes back into the ruck, or he plays as a marking forward.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, I'm convinced that DGB will play McEvoys 2020 role this year so I expect him to eventually push Big Boy out of them team or slot in if there's an injury. He was a pseudo KPD but played as more of an interceptor than a 1 on 1 defender, which I think Shaggy will be suited to at his current size.

I do not think Mcevoy will play consistent ruck minutes though. Maybe every second or third game, or just as a backup/in case of injury. Would like to be wrong but it seems unlikely.
 
Dutchy16 said:
Sicily was there just wandering around. Will not join in rehab group until after the break.

Sam Mitchell is calling Seamus - Seamus O’Mitchell. He will be ready for the Tour De France if he keeps up the bike work.

im surprised Hanrahan didn’t train. After watching him on Monday in his only session so far he needs the endurance work. Blew up badly in a year he needs to cement his position.

Howe is looking super fit. If he can stay injury free he could be the big bodied midfielder we so badly need.
Click to expand...

Howe is not the answer to any question worth asking.
 
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