News 2021 pre season training

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Jack Henry building a real solid rig,breakout season coming up off a very decent 2020 season.
 
DanA said:
My feeling is that you don’t even get a shot at coaching unless you were an AFL player, or at the very least top state league player in and around the system. And champion players get fast tracked. So in that respect, you’re more likely to be a successful coach.

IMO we’re never going to see the best guys for the job become coaches with how insular the AFL is.
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I remember an interview with Ken Hinkley about how hard it was to get a gig because he'd never won a premiership. Would be pretty astronomically hard coming from outside afl in the modern game
 
CatToTheFuture said:
I remember an interview with Ken Hinkley about how hard it was to get a gig because he'd never won a premiership. Would be pretty astronomically hard coming from outside afl in the modern game
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Maybe, I'd say less so than in previous eras (thankfully).

If you mean had never played in one, neither had Clarkson. Roos, or Beveridge.
 

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Partridge said:
Maybe, I'd say less so than in previous eras (thankfully).

If you mean had never played in one, neither had Clarkson. Roos, or Beveridge.
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Yeah I mean it wasn't a disqualifier, he clearly got a gig eventually. But he did say he was specifically turned down for some good on that basis
 
Partridge said:
They still go up to get the premiership cup on their own though. Until that changes people will think pretty reasonably one guy is in charge.
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Just another reinforcement that, for most people, perception becomes reality, I guess.

Seriously, though, the coach clearly remains 'the man in charge'. And I do acknowledge that they still garner almost all of the plaudits and most of the cashola that goes with that oversimplification of their supposed effectiveness. I'm simply making the point that the role itself is far more complicated than it ever was in the past. And that the skill set required is now so diverse as to make candidates who are just good at working closely with football players to improve their game (what many people would consider 'coaching') no guarantee to succeed in the role at all.
 
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longtimecat said:
according to tom Stewart, the boys are training at Deakin today, dont think I can get there , if anyone can get along a report would be great.
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Tom Stewart interview from earlier today up on the GFC website now...

Speaks well, but not much of note to say at this point. Did deal with the now ubiquitous 'With our latest acquisitions, aren't we the ultimate "all or nothing" football club?' by pointing out our desire to contend every year and to not settle for just transitioning the list for a few seasons. While some here are just waiting it out to pile on when their 'predicted' crash finally eventuates, it's clear that the club is going to keep pushing through with its ambition to play at the pointy end in as many years as possible. And the playing group is clearly endorsing that approach as well.

Which still makes plenty of sense to me, anyway. Flags are hard enough to win at any point. Let alone if you're intentionally planning to set up your team to not contend for a number of seasons along the way. While there's a realistic prospect of playing finals footy coming into any season, I entirely back the club to go after that goal and not preemptively pump the brakes in the vague notion that we'll be better once we endure some seasons of irrelevance.
 
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Partridge said:
That's where I most completely disagree. Who says by keeping draft picks we're INTENTIONALLY planning to set your team up to not contend? It's simply refreshing the list (which you have to do every year anyway) and hopefully continually groom young replacements for established positions.

I've never once, not ever, said we should deliberately not contend nor do I see why it has to be that way. We haven't finished bottom 4 for over thirty years. Why does it have to start purely by keeping draft picks instead of trading in 30-year-olds?

Never had an answer yet to that question. Doubt it's going to start now.
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I just don't see the dichotomy you postulate. We're still taking multiple draft picks every year. And doing that from the entirely compromised position of finishing near the top of the ladder time after time. There is a mindset among some (maybe you don't share it) that suggests we'd be better off to drop down the ladder to get better picks. I have no time for it, and am entirely satisfied with how the club generally seeks to leverage the picks we have to get players in (by drafting/trading/free agency) to keep the team moving forward as a group. Your mindset would seem to be at least that the club should be very cautious about giving away just about any draft picks. Although even your general indifference about Danger would probably still see you leaning towards being satisfied that his deal was just about worth it.

To support your insistence that the club has frittered away its future with draft picks distributed like confetti, you have your pet projects for unbridled vitriol. McIntosh, Clark and Steven as prime examples of what you rejoice in reminding us of in terms of the club's failings. All actual failures too, I agree. But the idea that casting off pick 38 in 2012, a serviceable contributor in Varcoe (who admittedly improved in a new environment), and pick 58 in 2019 amounts to grand profligacy just doesn't add up objectively for mine.

Plenty of others who have cost us picks/list spots that you may well wish to sfellow about (Rivers, Hendo, Tuohy, Dahl, Rohan, to name a few) have been more than worthwhile, considering the cost. And some other blow-outs due to injury (Selwood and Black come to mind here) were understandable as well, given the relatively limited outlay involved.

All thing considered, we still take plenty of picks to the draft in virtually every season. And tend to do rather well with them, considering the parlous position at which we are condemned to enter the order in most of those years. So I don't see half as much of an issue with our approach as some here do. Casting my eye around the competition for a number of years has hardly filled me with dread at all the quality we're foregoing in sending some middling picks away for players who could make (and often have made) a reasonable contribution to helping us contend in the here and now.

There appears to be a narrative suggesting that just relentlessly banging on with more and more picks of almost complete unknowns is absolutely preferable to a nuanced approach where specific list needs and player availability are also strongly considered. Particularly in a time where the club is clearly quite close to the summit, I can completely understand why the club carries out its list management with a very broad and flexible approach. And in an era where trading and free agency are going to come to emerge as even stronger forces in the years to come, I'm pleased that the GFC is running hard with these opportunities and seizing the moment to remain relevant.

Should we not salute in 2021, there will be plenty of our own (let alone the wider football world) ready to sink the boot in once more. Infuriatingly for them all, I'm certain the club will still continue on with the approach that Tom has outlined again today. And I imagine it's going to remain that way until clubs who treated draft picks (both early and otherwise) like gold become completely ascendant.

Haven't seen it happen yet. And I doubt it's going to start now.
 
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Partridge said:
Who says by keeping draft picks we're INTENTIONALLY planning to set your team up to not contend?
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How long did Richmond stay down the bottom. Melbourne, Carlton, North, Saints etc. How long will Hawthorn be down and out for, I reckon at least 5 years. Once you go off the cliff, in an 18 team comp, it takes a while to pull yourself back up, and that's assuming you can do it the first time.
 
Farmer2Goggin said:
Some good footage there - that's an insane side step Parfitt has developed :thumbsu:
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Parfitt's side-step is the best in the biz, bar none; twisted more opponents ankles than any other player in 2020. Does it with ease, does it for fun.
It's the next bit he needs to seriously polish; decision-making - he regularly beats his opponent with sheer class only to fluff the disposal.
 
goyoucatters said:
I just don't see the dichotomy you postulate. We're still taking multiple draft picks every year. And doing that from the entirely compromised position of finishing near the top of the ladder time after time. There is a mindset among some (maybe you don't share it) that suggests we'd be better off to drop down the ladder to get better picks. I have no time for it, and am entirely satisfied with how the club generally seeks to leverage the picks we have to get players in (by drafting/trading/free agency) to keep the team moving forward as a group.
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Correct. I don't share it and never have. Which I why I frequently say I don't see why we need to drop down the ladder. I'm sure I'll have to say it a few more times though.

goyoucatters said:
Your mindset would seem to be at least that the club should be very cautious about giving away just about any draft picks. Although even your general indifference about Danger would probably still see you leaning towards being satisfied that his deal was just about worth it.
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Ah very clever. Well since you asked. I am absolutely cautious about giving away any draft picks. Unapologetically.

Regarding Dangerfield, I have also said some deals are worth it. The two obvious ones to me were Ottens in 2004 and Dangerfield in 2015. Top tier players in their prime that filled a specific need. At the same time, I'm not enamoured of the crowd cheering an opposition player (the last game in 2015) and finding it all so happy (my imbecile father-in-law among them) considering we'd missed the finals that year. I'm not overly impressed when a player that publicly craves a premiership completely fails to turn up under the ultimate pressure. And starts playing for frees when it mattered. That might very well be just my sole opinion against the entire footy world. So be it. I'm not apologising for it.

goyoucatters said:
To support your insistence that the club has frittered away its future with draft picks distributed like confetti, you have your pet projects for unbridled vitriol. McIntosh, Clark and Steven as prime examples of what you rejoice in reminding us of in terms of the club's failings. All actual failures too, I agree. But the idea that casting off pick 38 in 2012, a serviceable contributor in Varcoe (who admittedly improved in a new environment), and pick 58 in 2019 amounts to grand profligacy just doesn't add up objectively for mine.

Plenty of others who have cost us picks/list spots that you may well wish to sfellow about (Rivers, Hendo, Tuohy, Dahl, Rohan, to name a few) have been more than worthwhile, considering the cost. And some other blow-outs due to injury (Selwood and Black come to mind here) were understandable as well, given the relatively limited outlay involved.
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Those three and a few others. Again, I'll make it clear. It's not bringing in every single player (although I'm a lot more cautious than most). It's bringing in players that already have massive question marks and/or injury problems, and pretending that they'll magically go away by putting on a Geelong jumper.

I also don't get the "well he didn't cost us much" argument. They're in the senior side aren't they? I thought the point of bringing in established players was because they were known quantities who could perform straight away? Was Rohan's Grand final effort less terrible because he cost us less? He like a few others should be judged on what they can deliver in finals, because that's the hurdle their recruitment was meant to help overcome. So far, it hasn't happened.

goyoucatters said:
All thing considered, we still take plenty of picks to the draft in virtually every season. And tend to do rather well with them, considering the parlous position at which we are condemned to enter the order in most of those years. So I don't see half as much of an issue with our approach as some here do. Casting my eye around the competition for a number of years has hardly filled me with dread at all the quality we're foregoing in sending some middling picks away for players who could make (and often have made) a reasonable contribution to helping us contend in the here and now.
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Condemned? Like finishing higher up the ladder is a bad thing? Isn't that the point? All that means is your first pick is a little later - say 15 (finishing 4th) instead of 5 (finishing 14th). So your picks might be 15, 33, 49 or so. That apparently means you're condemned? We found Harry Taylor at pick 17 in 2007, and Mitch Duncan at pick 28 in 2009 - both after winning the flag. They're probably our two best picks of the last decade or so. We've had no shortage of good selections from later in the draft both before and after premierships.

goyoucatters said:
There appears to be a narrative suggesting that just relentlessly banging on with more and more picks of almost complete unknowns is absolutely preferable to a nuanced approach where specific list needs and player availability are also strongly considered. Particularly in a time where the club is clearly quite close to the summit, I can completely understand why the club carries out its list management with a very broad and flexible approach. And in an era where trading and free agency are going to come to emerge as even stronger forces in the years to come, I'm pleased that the GFC is running hard with these opportunities and seizing the moment to remain relevant.
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I thought free agency was already a force. I've been told it's changed the landscape repeatedly. But yes, draft picks are actually unknown. And I prefer that to recruiting most (but not all) retreads from other clubs.

goyoucatters said:
Should we not salute in 2021, there will be plenty of our own (let alone the wider football world) ready to sink the boot in once more. Infuriatingly for them all, I'm certain the club will still continue on with the approach that Tom has outlined again today. And I imagine it's going to remain that way until clubs who treated draft picks (both early and otherwise) like gold become completely ascendant.

Haven't seen it happen yet. And I doubt it's going to start now.
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When I make a statement about recruiting a certain player, or daring to have doubts about it (see McIntosh, Clark, Scott Selwood, Rohan, Steven as the absolutely obvious ones), and cop it on here - I'm going to monitor their progress with interest. You can say whatever you want. But if (and in some cases when) they fail I'm going to remind you about it without a shred of apology. Not because the club was unlucky with recruiting a player who got injuries - like Menzel. But all those players above had major issues before arriving that anyone at the club should have seen coming. It is not an excuse when they fail again.
 

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Atkins training with the defenders group according to krock...makes sense to me as we have good depth through the small/med fwds but less so in the small defenders..and our defensive group in general at vfl level will be quite inexperienced this year.
 
Partridge said:
That's where I most completely disagree. Who says by keeping draft picks we're INTENTIONALLY planning to set your team up to not contend? It's simply refreshing the list (which you have to do every year anyway) and hopefully continually groom young replacements for established positions.

I've never once, not ever, said we should deliberately not contend nor do I see why it has to be that way. We haven't finished bottom 4 for over thirty years. Why does it have to start purely by keeping draft picks instead of trading in 30-year-olds?

Never had an answer yet to that question. Doubt it's going to start now.
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Look at recent history.

Before our dynasty, there was Brisbane. It has taken them until now, 17 years, to be a contender again, doing it the way you propose.

When we were a power team, and arguably we still are, the other contenders were WCE, Swans, Pies, Saints, Dogs , Hawks, Port, NM.
Hawks, WCE, and Dogs have won flags.
Each of those teams have recruited specifically for flags, most notably Hawks.
There is no doubt that Tom Boyd was a massive reason Dogs were able to pinch one.They gave away a fair bit for him.
Hawks selected many notables who have helped them in their 3-peat.

I suggest the powers at Geelong understand the challenges way better than we do, given they are full-timers, and have proven to be be successful. We are STILL IN CONTENTION.

I also suggest that not until we lose all of our immortals- Hawkins, Selwood are the only 2 left, and maybe add Danger to that list, will we start to drop off a bit and gain higher draft picks.

It makes sense to keep topping up with players of need, and not rely on unknown lower end draft picks at this point, because this period of contention will not last forever. Why not enjoy being up there every year for a little while yet? To make a GF is massive. JC, Higgins, and Smith may well help us get close again. We are not dying wondering.
 
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Vdubs said:
Look at recent history.

Before our dynasty, there was Brisbane. It has taken them until now, 17 years, to be a contender again, doing it the way you propose.

When we were a power team, and arguably we still are, the other contenders were WCE, Swans, Pies, Saints, Dogs , Hawks, Port, NM.
Hawks, WCE, and Dogs have won flags.
Each of those teams have recruited specifically for flags, most notably Hawks.
There is no doubt that Tom Boyd was a massive reason Dogs were able to pinch one.They gave away a fair bit for him.
Hawks selected many notables who have helped them in their 3-peat.

I suggest the powers at Geelong understand the challenges way better than we do, given they are full-timers, and have proven to be be successful. We are STILL IN CONTENTION.

I also suggest that not until we lose all of our immortals- Hawkins, Selwood are the only 2 left, and maybe add Danger to that list, will we start to drop off a bit and gain higher draft picks.

It makes sense to keep topping up with players of need, and not rely on unknown lower end draft picks at this point, because this period of contention will not last forever. Why not enjoy being up there every year for a little while year. To make a GF is massive. JC, Higgins, and Smith may well help us get close again. We are not dying wondering.
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We are not Brisbane. We're not from a non footy state where all the players want to go home.
We are actually situated in the heartland of footy in a way. I reckon 25% + of all AFL players would come from the region.
We aren't Carlton or any of the others either we are a completely different club.
Boyd trade wasn't really like that either. Their best player and captain walked out and Boyd was what they got.
Not saying some trades aren't worth it though.
Cameron and Dangerfield you just get no matter what and almost don't worry about the price.
All the others? Meh. I'm not to excited about seeing Issac Smith running around in Geelong jumper.
Not looking forward to it TBH. Whatever tiny little thread of club loyalty and passion over buisness is now officially gone.
I know it's the way it is but it's a bit sad.
 
Spazz Cat said:
We are not Brisbane. We're not from a non footy state where all the players want to go home.
We are actually situated in the heartland of footy in a way. I reckon 25% + of all AFL players would come from the region.
We aren't Carlton or any of the others either we are a completely different club.
Boyd trade wasn't really like that either. Their best player and captain walked out and Boyd was what they got.
Not saying some trades aren't worth it though.
Cameron and Dangerfield you just get no matter what and almost don't worry about the price.
All the others? Meh. I'm not to excited about seeing Issac Smith running around in Geelong jumper.
Not looking forward to it TBH. Whatever tiny little thread of club loyalty and passion over buisness is now officially gone.
I know it's the way it is but it's a bit sad.
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Meh. It's a good list, who cares where the players came from
 
Jordan Clark
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also recorded a personal best time trial result as he looks to cement his spot in the senior side.
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AFL news 2021: Best pre-season trainers, pictures, trimmed down, bulked up, Jordan De Goey, Nat Fyfe, Dustin Martin | Fox Sports
 
Partridge said:
And plenty of average players became great coaches too.

Even in the current era, you'd never call Clarkson or Hardwick great players.
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I’ve always been curious as to why so many back pocket players became coaches and good coaches. Plenty in recent years, Sheedy too i think. Strange, I’m amazed there haven’t been more creative forwards as successful coaches, like Blight (speaking of strange).
 
MacStradbroke said:
I’ve always been curious as to why so many back pocket players became coaches and good coaches. Plenty in recent years, Sheedy too i think. Strange, I’m amazed there haven’t been more creative forwards as successful coaches, like Blight (speaking of strange).
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True. Malthouse I think was one, Pagan was one, Bomber played there a fair bit, CS, BS, Parkin?, + heaps more
 
Spazz Cat said:
I do. Just enjoy it more when half the team isn't traded in.
Doesn't mean I'm right though or anything. Some people enjoy the trade period and all that stuff now more than the actual game.
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Precisely, which is really bizarre. It's been growing all the time but last year in particular confirmed it for me.

Amazing the absolute certainty some have about what picks will make it and when.
 
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