Training 2021 Pre-season Training

[caesar88]

Well of course. Pressure happens in general play. And pressure has increased across the board over the last 20 years, including zoning.

So how is this not alleviated by an effective tap ruckman and, dare I say it, a tall forward with second and third efforts like Reid?

It is helped by having an effective tap ruckman. It's not solved by it. The onus has to be on the ball-carrier to do better with the ball once they have possession to work it out of the congestion and pressure. Quite often hack kicking it is not the right move in those situations. But as you say that's the way the game has evolved, and it's left even some of the most polished players of the last decade - Pendlebury, Kelly - looking pretty frantic and rushed.

The hack kick is just a staple of our game atm, even if it is a depressing part of it. If I were to knock every player who was a frequent hack-kicker, there would be very few players left to enjoy watching.

 

[dosser]

It is helped by having an effective tap ruckman. It's not solved by it. The onus has to be on the ball-carrier to do better with the ball once they have possession to work it out of the congestion and pressure. Quite often hack kicking it is not the right move in those situations. But as you say that's the way the game has evolved, and it's left even some of the most polished players of the last decade - Pendlebury, Kelly - looking pretty frantic and rushed.

The hack kick is just a staple of our game atm, even if it is a depressing part of it. If I were to knock every player who was a frequent hack-kicker, there would be very few players left to enjoy watching.

There is nowhere near as much shepherding and blocking as there used to be. Players are trained to spread now instead of throwing their bodies at their opponents. This means that there is less time and space for the player with the ball.

 

[Kapers]

Regarding the hack, yes ruck do matter, but I feel it more a mindset in some of our players. I may be wrong, but I don't remember seeing many hack kicks out of Richmond, and they're midfield as a similar ruck situation to us.

The difference is the mindset.

Space vs player. Richmond are willing to lose space if it goes to a player, we will often take space even if it goes to a opposing player.

IMO it's a left over part of our 2014-2018 game plan that only really worked becuase we had some of the best forwards and best midfielders. It didn't hurt to have a really good defenders to back it up. But Richmond have laid down the lay of the land, possession is better than space, and the Swan's have started to implement a lot of that. I think we'll get there, especially with a young squad learning together.

 

[caesar88]

There is nowhere near as much shepherding and blocking as there used to be. Players are trained to spread now instead of throwing their bodies at their opponents. This means that there is less time and space for the player with the ball.

Yep very good point. I watched a lot of footy matches over the summer and it became even more apparent to me just how difficult it is for these players in such thick congestion and under such intense pressure. There's not really much point in me laying into these guys who are simply products of the game they've been playing in, and who are just trying to do their best, even with mixed results. So I am making a conceited effort to not do so going forward.

However like I said above, it makes those players who can somehow rise above the pressure and do good things in the thick of the action all the more commendable, and so important to the team.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

The hack kick or hurried kick is because we don’t have great outside run. When Jetta was in the team the out the back handball to him who had time to do a half circle compose and kick was a real asset and exciting as he was our best kick.

Hewett has great evasive skills but sometimes he turns into trouble rather than first option. Parker is an old school slam it on the boot style mid and Kennedy stands up in a tackle nearly every time but doesn’t get the support.

Florent has the tools but just hasn’t maintained it. He started last year on fire then seemed to just do a little too much.

have always thought we would be a better side instantly if we had just one mid with that first metre explosive pace

they are out there but come at a cost we don’t seem to target that at the trade table (probably due to cost) so we need to find that guy in the draft but takes years to mature to that player.

We’ve been a kick forward at all costs team for a long time. Ryan O’Keefe was the master and a champion in his time. If the forwards just played in front for that very kick which usually drops quickly they’d make them look better

 

[Wolftone]

ExcellentView attachment 1024172

Ex-celent

 

[Wolftone]

Do we though, is it possible we just have a mediocre team, with mediocre depth, who are competing for spots with mediocre best 22 players, albeit a few A and B graders, most of which are injured?

No. It is not possible. ALL the media rate our list highly. NOT just a few. Asked if he thought our list better than Carlton David King replied, by miles. Why you may ask? Yes, Carlton have addressed certain issues and positional problems over the summer but their inspiring player retired. Who inspires Carlton? Cripps? If so he has to step up far more often and be consistent. But the difference between Swans and Carlton is our players are self driven with self belief. We also picked players on a needs basis not just because we thought they would look good in a Swans Guernsey. We have been able to get elite talent onto our list by very careful drafting. We have also picked assistant coaches who are packed with specialist knowledge and the all complement each other. We are changing the way we play too. This list could be an evolving dynasty, that is how highly experts rate it. Dermie, Dunstall, King, Healey, Gary Lyon, Lethal. What did Lethal say 'If their kids ever grow up watch out! Asked what he meant by that he said for pure talent the Swans list leaves the others for dead.' He also said it is now up to the coaches to develop the list and only time will tell if they can do that.

 

[Crust]

Yep very good point. I watched a lot of footy matches over the summer and it became even more apparent to me just how difficult it is for these players in such thick congestion and under such intense pressure. There's not really much point in me laying into these guys who are simply products of the game they've been playing in, and who are just trying to do their best, even with mixed results. So I am making a conceited effort to not do so going forward.

However like I said above, it makes those players who can somehow rise above the pressure and do good things in the thick of the action all the more commendable, and so important to the team.

Auto correct is never one's friend

 

[Jewelsbon]

Auto correct is never one's friend

I think there's a lot of conceited efforts on this forum

 

[RUNVS]

Auto correct is never one's friend

Yep, it tricks you into trusting it and then betrays you when you need it most.

 

[RUNVS]

Bear31 needs to go to Swans training, setup some loud speakers and start playing Sweet Caroline loudly

 

[Superstar swan]

I really hope horse isn’t serious about playing campbell in defence

 

[RUNVS]

I really hope horse isn’t serious about playing campbell in defence

Doesn't surprise me. Longmire has a history of prioritising defence over attack.

 

[Superstar swan]

Doesn't surprise me. Longmire has a history of prioritising defence over attack.

The first bloke we get through the door with a weapon of a boot in years and horse wants to turn him into nick smith

 

[S120]

The first bloke we get through the door with a weapon of a boot in years and horse wants to turn him into nick smith

"We like what Braeden can deliver off half-back and through the midfield, just because of his kicking. He can shift teams around a bit and use his speed. The new manning-the-mark rule, where the man on the mark can't shift very far, if you've got players who can help exploit that through their speed or their kicking then that will be useful down the track.

Sure sounds like Nick Smith.

 

[caesar88]

The first bloke we get through the door with a weapon of a boot in years and horse wants to turn him into nick smith

Have you actually watched Campbell play? If you have you'd have seen him play plenty of footy across half back where he uses his run to provide rebound and then his left boot to send it to the forward half in a split second. Nothing complicated about it. Doesn't mean he won't still be moving up getting plenty of the ball in the forward half.

 

[RUNVS]

Have you actually watched Campbell play? If you have you'd have seen him play plenty of footy across half back where he uses his run to provide rebound and then his left boot to send it to the forward half in a split second. Nothing complicated about it. Doesn't mean he won't still be moving up getting plenty of the ball in the forward half.

I remember watching this, watching Campbell kick some goals with ease that most AFL players would struggle with and thinking "yep, he will make a great defender"

 

[caesar88]

I remember watching this, watching Campbell kick some goals with ease that most AFL players would struggle with and thinking "yep, he will make a great defender"

Just because he's winning most of his possessions in the back half, doesn't mean he'll be doing any defending! Applying pressure and making contests when he's required to, sure, but Horse's quotes - "speed", "kicking", "exploit", "deliver" - make it pretty obvious they see Campbell as a weapon to hurt other teams from the back half, not defend against other teams from the back half.

 

[RUNVS]

Just because he's winning most of his possessions in the back half, doesn't mean he'll be doing any defending! Applying pressure and making contests when he's required to, sure, but Horse's quotes - "speed", "kicking", "exploit", "deliver" - make it pretty obvious they see Campbell as a weapon to hurt other teams from the back half, not defend against other teams from the back half.

Yes, Campbell kicks the ball to Florent who is in space, Florent goes for a run and then decides that Sinclair is actually 260cm tall and kicks it well over his head, going straight to an opposition defender where the ball goes flying out of our attacking 50 as quickly as it entered.

 

[Millky95]

Yes, Campbell kicks the ball to Florent who is in space, Florent goes for a run and then decides that Sinclair is actually 260cm tall and kicks it well over his head, going straight to an opposition defender where the ball goes flying out of our attacking 50 as quickly as it entered.

 

[caesar88]

Yes, Campbell kicks the ball to Florent who is in space, Florent goes for a run and then decides that Sinclair is actually 260cm tall and kicks it well over his head, going straight to an opposition defender where the ball goes flying out of our attacking 50 as quickly as it entered.

That's a problem for Florent to work on, or perhaps a sign that Horse needs to use Florent differently. But what if Campbell kicks the ball to Blakey? Hewett? McInerney? Rowbottom? Stephens?

Alternatively, owing to the point Horse was making re the rule change, Campbell could bypass that middle player altogether, and decide to launch the ball into forward 50 himself, from the half back line.

 

[RUNVS]

That's a problem for Florent to work on, or perhaps a sign that Horse needs to use Florent differently. But what if Campbell kicks the ball to Blakey? Hewett? McInerney? Rowbottom? Stephens?

Out of those players only Blakey and McInerney are particularly known for their kicking ability. Hewett and the others are pretty good kicks, but not damaging kicks.

I just think that our most elite kickers should be the ones delivering the ball into the forward line as it doesn't matter how well Campbell sets up the play if the play is ruined by some other players dodgy kick into the forward 50. It makes whatever Campbell did 25 seconds earlier completely irrelevant.

 

[caesar88]

Out of those players only Blakey and McInerney are particularly known for their kicking ability. Hewett and the others are pretty good kicks, but not damaging kicks.

I just think that our most elite kickers should be the ones delivering the ball into the forward line as it doesn't matter how well Campbell sets up the play if the play is ruined by some other players dodgy kick into the forward 50. It makes whatever Campbell did 25 seconds earlier completely irrelevant.

I don't believe the kick inside 50 needs to be damaging. I'm not even convinced you need great kicks to do it (not saying Hewett, Rowbottom etc aren't good kicks). I think the most important thing to have when kicking inside 50 is just composure. The target itself is often only about 40 metres away at most. Find the target, get it on your boot, and send the ball to him. Composed players will be able to do this 90% of the time even if they don't have the most damaging or delicate kick. It's easier when that ball carrier is under less pressure because you've given them time by delivering a Campbell-like bullet that leaves the opponents in their dust.

The kick from the back half though does generally need to be more damaging. If you have a player like Campbell who can deliver a bullet that covers 50m+ in about 1 second, and part the seas per se, then that can change the entire game as you're suddenly from defence into attack before the other team has had time to react or set up against it, and you've also given your forwards the best chance possible by giving them time over their direct opponents, and the freedom to stay inside forward 50. Rampe is also great at these.

 

[TheMase]

Sorry but some seriously just do not understand modern footy.......

 

[Donza]

Sorry but some seriously just do not understand modern footy.......

Looked like I arrived at a good time.