Training 2021 Pre-Season

[puppy_dog7]

Richmond are similar. Edwards is A grade but not elite, Prestia similarly sits in between. Cotchin has been elite but not for a couple of years and Dusty spends less and less time in there. They have 4 or 5 others that rotate through but you don't look at their list a swoon. Bulldogs have a huge pile of elite mids but it is sort of doubling up in most of them. Geelong again has one elite and a pile of A graders. Collingwood has had one of the best midfield groups but age is catching up now, West Coast again, is very good but not like a gallery of elite mids. Post has masses of quality but not much variation etc.

Hanners, Steele, Gresham, Jones, Crouch, Sinclair, Billings, Hill, Ross, Clark with a few running though is starting to look very good with Paddy and Marshall as the rucks. There is a real depth of quality there now and is seriously underrated by outsiders. 3 or 4 years ago we had Ross and Stuv and then a gulf.

Crouch is close to elite, Steele is elite if he backs up, Gresham and Jones have a point of difference inside, Billings, Ross, Hill and Sinclair outside. Clark and Crouch can inside bull. Hanners can do both. If we an keep fit we will stretch good mids. It's not far off the elite midfield IMO and has most bases covered.

I completely agree. I feel like outsiders and the media have just been spurting that we lack midfield depth and quality for so long now that its just become part of the narrative every year.
And when St.kilda people say, well Steele is now close to elite category, Crouch is A grade, Gresh is A grade in that he has that point of difference to be a clearance specialist but also go forward and kick 3-5 goals on his day, Ross is consistent A-B grade barring last year, Jones is a good inside-outside that can lack consistency at times, then as you said there's still Hill, Clark, Sinclair and even Bytel as well.
Our midfield may not have a Dangerfield or a Martin or a Fyfe but how many do? Do I think our midfield is top 4 in the comp for quality? maybe not, but we are really not that far off it compared to what the outsiders keep saying and i also think we have more variety in our mid group then what people give us credit for. An extra year of development in Clark, Gresh and Bytel as well as the group gelling together namely with (Hill, Jones, Hanners and now crouch) this group could realistically take another big step this year or next.

I just feel outsiders looking in are always a year or so behind in predicting progression.

 

[puppy_dog7]

I don't think we have any less "stars" in the midfield (or anywhere on the ground actually) compared to Port who they talk up as someone we won't be as good as.

It's only because Port finished on top last year and get kissed on the dick every year with the fixture. Their young talent also gets talked up a lot more than it should. They still rely heavily on a lot of older players who arent far off retirement

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

We have to keep bringing in some mid 20s players to stay up or get internal improvement. Hanners and Paddy will be hard to replace and our fill in depth is at the end. We look like we are putting together a list to challenge now.

Ya for sure, but I don't think they necessarily have to be big fish, marquee signing types, which is the vibe I got from that fox video.
While it'd be great to get a Dangerfield/Judd/Neale type player, I reckon we could also get away with internal development + Steele/Lyons/Dougal Howard type trades, trades that don't necessarily blow your mind, but that turn over the list and improve important places. I guess what I was trying to say is that our potential premiership "super stars" are probably one our list already.

 

[phantom13]

I completely agree. I feel like outsiders and the media have just been spurting that we lack midfield depth and quality for so long now that its just become part of the narrative every year.
And when St.kilda people say, well Steele is now close to elite category, Crouch is A grade, Gresh is A grade in that he has that point of difference to be a clearance specialist but also go forward and kick 3-5 goals on his day, Ross is consistent A-B grade barring last year, Jones is a good inside-outside that can lack consistency at times, then as you said there's still Hill, Clark, Sinclair and even Bytel as well.
Our midfield may not have a Dangerfield or a Martin or a Fyfe but how many do? Do I think our midfield is top 4 in the comp for quality? maybe not, but we are really not that far off it compared to what the outsiders keep saying and i also think we have more variety in our mid group then what people give us credit for. An extra year of development in Clark, Gresh and Bytel as well as the group gelling together namely with (Hill, Jones, Hanners and now crouch) this group could realistically take another big step this year or next.

I just feel outsiders looking in are always a year or so behind in predicting progression.

100% Even Danger isnt what he used to be.

Fyfe, Neale, Martin, Bont... maaaaaybe Cripps.

We bat deeper than all of them (provided Hanners and Jones dont miss half the year with hammies).

 

[gringo2011]

Rioli gets the last name boost as well.

I also think there is a bit of bias where we get talked about as a team with no stars so some players we have don't get the same plaudits a player with the same output gets at another club where the media narrative leans towards them being a team with heaps of stars.

Being under estimated by the media is a good things at time but it would also be great if some of our players could the attention and credit they deserve.

We don't have any real "stars" who kids line up to get signature types at the moment but we do have a big group of your players on the cusp of being those. Steele will get some more profile if he keeps playing like he did in 2020, King looks a future marquee player, Marshall will continue to get plaudits and build a profile, Gresham needs to go harder but he's close to taking a step up, Crouch and Ross are both a little off broadway despite their past output but could easily jump back up etc. Off and Clark are little guns. Even Dougal has potential to jump up and become elite.

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

It’s because we lack success. Haven’t won a flag in 55 years - had a shot at 3 grannys in the last 10+ years and still found a way to leave without the silverware. People know how it goes down at St Kilda and that’s not gonna change in the media unfortunately until we win one. Look at the Doggies - hadn’t one won a flag in a similar time frame however because of their 2016 win - in the media these days they’re still in the top 8 / “could sneak up and win a flag” convo rather than our narrative of... “not there yet”. Just gotta win one and it’ll change for the club.

 

[The Punter]

It’s because we lack success. Haven’t won a flag in 55 years - had a shot at 3 grannys in the last 10+ years and still found a way to leave without the silverware. People know how it goes down at St Kilda and that’s not gonna change in the media unfortunately until we win one. Look at the Doggies - hadn’t one won a flag in a similar time frame however because of their 2016 win - in the media these days they’re still in the top 8 / “could sneak up and win a flag” convo rather than our narrative of... “not there yet”. Just gotta win one and it’ll change for the club.

We did not play in three games where we could have won three total premierships. This feeds into the narrative of St Kilda as greater failures than they are.

There were two grand finals and two premierships on offer. It's just that one of the grand finals took eight quarters.

End communication.

 

[gringo2011]

I completely agree. I feel like outsiders and the media have just been spurting that we lack midfield depth and quality for so long now that its just become part of the narrative every year.
And when St.kilda people say, well Steele is now close to elite category, Crouch is A grade, Gresh is A grade in that he has that point of difference to be a clearance specialist but also go forward and kick 3-5 goals on his day, Ross is consistent A-B grade barring last year, Jones is a good inside-outside that can lack consistency at times, then as you said there's still Hill, Clark, Sinclair and even Bytel as well.
Our midfield may not have a Dangerfield or a Martin or a Fyfe but how many do? Do I think our midfield is top 4 in the comp for quality? maybe not, but we are really not that far off it compared to what the outsiders keep saying and i also think we have more variety in our mid group then what people give us credit for. An extra year of development in Clark, Gresh and Bytel as well as the group gelling together namely with (Hill, Jones, Hanners and now crouch) this group could realistically take another big step this year or next.

I just feel outsiders looking in are always a year or so behind in predicting progression.

You'd almost say we could be an elite midfield if a combination of things happen. Gresham has to take the next step and stay fit which gives us a unique little buzz-box mid who creates and wins his own ball, kind of like Prestia with a bit more flair. We need Steele to at least back up his 2020, Hanners to play 20 plus games, Crouch to get back to his high accumulation best, Ross to get a preseason in and back to his best form which is AA quality, Hill and Billings to own the wings or at least Hill and someone perhaps Sincs, Bytel and Byrnes to pressure from below and fill in for injury. Marshall, Paddy and Hunter to somehow allow us to always have a fit solid ruck abvailable. Jones to make the step from an inconsistent injury plagued mid to a Jack Steven type pace off a step mid. All that happens we are up there with any midfield.

It's unlikely all of that will happen but a lot isn't unrealistically dreaming stuff either.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s because we lack success. Haven’t won a flag in 55 years - had a shot at 3 grannys in the last 10+ years and still found a way to leave without the silverware. People know how it goes down at St Kilda and that’s not gonna change in the media unfortunately until we win one. Look at the Doggies - hadn’t one won a flag in a similar time frame however because of their 2016 win - in the media these days they’re still in the top 8 / “could sneak up and win a flag” convo rather than our narrative of... “not there yet”. Just gotta win one and it’ll change for the club.

I think we have definitely lacked stars and actually lacked a brand or a style that captured the imagination. Bruce and Stuv were our high profile players for years and Bruce was a decent player but his star was more in his character than skill. We have rebuilt from the ground up in a short period and the media haven't caught up yet. Brisbane was in a similar boat and even Port. Once you start winning the hype follows.

 

[The_Steadier]

Ya for sure, but I don't think they necessarily have to be big fish, marquee signing types, which is the vibe I got from that fox video.
While it'd be great to get a Dangerfield/Judd/Neale type player, I reckon we could also get away with internal development + Steele/Lyons/Dougal Howard type trades, trades that don't necessarily blow your mind, but that turn over the list and improve important places. I guess what I was trying to say is that our potential premiership "super stars" are probably one our list already.

Neale is the odd man out there.

He wasn't a superstar when he was traded, just a v good player (and the trade cost was lower than a tim kelly/judd etc accordingly).

I agree that we don't need to target guys like bont/cripps etc that are already bonafide 'marquee' players- but we should still be throwing as much money as we can muster in landing guys that could reasonably do a neale and go from v good to superstar.

A guy like taranto would be a good example, but I'm sure there are others like him.
We shouldn't be shy about trying to do what the bombers did last year and get a v good player (dunkley) to want be traded.

Not saying we go after dunkley- but we should be trying very hard to shake a taranto etc player loose

 

[phantom13]

I say 3 grannys for no wins.

The draw was still a Grand Final we didnt win that could have netted us a flag.

 

[The Punter]

I say 3 grannys for no wins.

The draw was still a Grand Final we didnt win that could have netted us a flag.

But if we had have won that one, there would have been no third grand final.

Two flags on offer in those two years. Losing three grand finals (and we didn't lose one of them) or saying we played in three grand finals for no flags makes us sound 50% worse than we actually were. Collingwood lost three grand finals (and three flags) in 1979-1981. We didn't do that.

 

[phantom13]

But if we had have won that one, there would have been no third grand final.

Two flags on offer in those two years. Losing three grand finals (and we didn't lose one of them) or saying we played in three grand finals for no flags makes us sound 50% worse than we actually were. Collingwood lost three grand finals (and three flags) in 1979-1981. We didn't do that.

I take your point but to me it more talks to how close we were (could read as desperately unlucky, but for a toe poke and a bad bounce).

We had 3 grand finals in 2 years, no one has ever done that, two of them were decided by a grand total of 12 points.

Its semantics, just saying the whole 3 grannys in 2 years isnt uncommon.

 

[BrutThough]

We don't have any real "stars" who kids line up to get signature types at the moment but we do have a big group of your players on the cusp of being those. Steele will get some more profile if he keeps playing like he did in 2020, King looks a future marquee player, Marshall will continue to get plaudits and build a profile, Gresham needs to go harder but he's close to taking a step up, Crouch and Ross are both a little off broadway despite their past output but could easily jump back up etc. Off and Clark are little guns. Even Dougal has potential to jump up and become elite.

I see Butler being the player huge with kids. Between the way he plays and his hair, he really has that quality which helps him stand out.

 

[Remboy]

I think we have definitely lacked stars and actually lacked a brand or a style that captured the imagination. Bruce and Stuv were our high profile players for years and Bruce was a decent player but his star was more in his character than skill. We have rebuilt from the ground up in a short period and the media haven't caught up yet. Brisbane was in a similar boat and even Port. Once you start winning the hype follows.

We just need to get a tattooist down to the club and get a few sleeves and neck tatts done. Problem solved.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I see Butler being the player huge with kids. Between the way he plays and his hair, he really has that quality which helps him stand out.

I’m not a kid and all I think about is that goal late in the third against the Dogs when he burned someone off with a snakey or two and drew out the euphoria because we all knew he’d kick it!

 

[borderbarry]

The player I would like to steal from Gold Coast has red hair and only played about 4 games. Future best player in the comp in my opinion.

 

[saintskit]

There's not much stopping someone from say, recording it and uploading it to mega or similar to share privately.
Not that you would ever condone such a practice, just providing an example.

If anyone can do this I'd very much appreciate it!

 

[Joffaboy]

Jeez Sydney did well salary dumping injury busts Hannebery and Jones to us.
No Hanners in tomorrows squad but will be right for R1 apparently.
ok

 

[bergholt]

And when St.kilda people say, well Steele is now close to elite category, Crouch is A grade, Gresh is A grade in that he has that point of difference to be a clearance specialist but also go forward and kick 3-5 goals on his day, Ross is consistent A-B grade barring last year, Jones is a good inside-outside that can lack consistency at times, then as you said there's still Hill, Clark, Sinclair and even Bytel as well.

A-grade is generally considered to be All-Australian quality. By that measure Crouch and Gresh are nowhere near it - neither have even made the squad. Steele is now A-grade, he's the only one in our side.

 

[borderbarry]

Jeez Sydney did well salary dumping injury busts Hannebery and Jones to us.
No Hanners in tomorrows squad but will be right for R1 apparently.
ok

Has anyone seen the squad? Where do I find it?

 

[saintkildaman]

Jeez Sydney did well salary dumping injury busts Hannebery and Jones to us.
No Hanners in tomorrows squad but will be right for R1 apparently.
ok

Hope you’re taking the piss

 

[SaintBenny]

Has anyone seen the squad? Where do I find it?

Squad selection: Six new Saints named to take on Roos https://www.saints.com.au/news/867434

 

[SaintBenny]

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

But if we had have won that one, there would have been no third grand final.

Two flags on offer in those two years. Losing three grand finals (and we didn't lose one of them) or saying we played in three grand finals for no flags makes us sound 50% worse than we actually were. Collingwood lost three grand finals (and three flags) in 1979-1981. We didn't do that.

How can any real supporter forget our Premierships of 96/04/08?