VFL 2021 Sandringham Zebras

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pebblesofsand said:
Not sure how you come to that conclusion, of course he was hard done by.

Dunstan has played 100+ games for the Saints, missed most of last season through injury yet at the start of the year when he was back to full fitness wasn't even included in the first practice match and was then given a half in the 2nd match.

They then pick Bytel for the first game and then despite underperforming they keep him in the team.

And then on the back of no VFL games they give Dunstan a run and then immediately dump him even though he performed better than Bytel (and a number of other players) in that match.

The coaching staff had a closed mindset about Dunstan at the start of the season and now it might cost us at the end of the season.
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Well in my opinion he’d had more than enough opportunities over a number of seasons & it was time to get games into Bytel.

Its very debatable that Dunstan was better in that game at all. Turned it over, was horrible defensively & was pretty much exactly what we (& the coaching staff) had seen many times in the past. He’s also in his prime & Bytel is an infant footy wise

I’m happy if he stays or his form has improved his free agency currency. Either way its good for the club.


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pebblesofsand said:
And the coaches were wrong.

Dunstan averaged 20+ possession a game with Billy Longer and Tom Hickey in the ruck, you dont have to be rocket surgeon to figure out he'd do better with a better ruck combo.

The thing that really s***'s me about early selections were that at the start of a season, when we were supposed to be aiming for finals, they went with the untried "future" rather than the solid reliable known.
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Averaged 20+ possies and turned over how many under little pressure?

Not to mention was a weak spot defensively once the ball got outside of a contest.

I don’t recall you (or anyone else) bemoaning Dunstan not being selected in the first half of the season. Lots of re-writing history going on in this debate.


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Winmar2Lockett said:
Averaged 20+ possies and turned over how many under little pressure?

Not to mention was a weak spot defensively once the ball got outside of a contest.

I don’t recall you (or anyone else) bemoaning Dunstan not being selected in the first half of the season. Lots of re-writing history going on in this debate.


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Other people may rewrite history but I think you'll find I've been pretty consistent in my view that Dunstan would benefit from having a better midfield and a decent tap ruckman.

pebblesofsand
Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 7, 2020
People worried about Luke Dunstans disposal better look away next year when Brad Crouch gets the ball.

Unless you are an absolute superstar, its very hard to win a contested ball and then also dispose of it effectively. In 2019, more than half of Dunstans possessions were contested and he had a DE of over 60% - that's pretty good for anyone.

His problem is that, either through lack of tank or football nous, he has more games with under 25 possessions than above it. Will having a better midfield around him allow him to make that step? Not sure.

But I'm certain that he, like all our mids, will be rapt if Ryder can carry this years form through to next year.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Other people may rewrite history but I think you'll find I've been pretty consistent in my view that Dunstan would benefit from having a better midfield and a decent tap ruckman.

pebblesofsand
Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 7, 2020
People worried about Luke Dunstans disposal better look away next year when Brad Crouch gets the ball.

Unless you are an absolute superstar, its very hard to win a contested ball and then also dispose of it effectively. In 2019, more than half of Dunstans possessions were contested and he had a DE of over 60% - that's pretty good for anyone.

His problem is that, either through lack of tank or football nous, he has more games with under 25 possessions than above it. Will having a better midfield around him allow him to make that step? Not sure.

But I'm certain that he, like all our mids, will be rapt if Ryder can carry this years form through to next year.
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Dunny had some good points but it looked like he had three major impediments.

His disposal was s**t, I mean absolutely diabolical. I can remember him hand balling to players running past and it would go 2 meters behind where the player was....he's cleaned it up with the better mids around him.

He was unfit or didn't have a tank or what ever you want to call it. He was only good for about 60% to 70% of game time. He's lifted that to being able to stay on the field as long as any of our mids.

His disposal count was below what an inside mid should be getting. He's improved to a point where he regularly gets above 25 possessions a game even along side 2 to 3 another high possession clearance mids also getting ball.

He's somehow gone away and got everything to a point where he's actually a very good player, it's one of the best St Kilda stories of the year. We have a guy who was probably a delisted player at the end of his contract to being a top 10 player at the club. An absolutely brilliant and positive thing to happen in a very frustrating year where others went backwards or stagnated. Some seem to think he deserves to be punished for not being as good in the past.
 
gringo2011 said:
Dunny had some good points but it looked like he had three major impediments.

His disposal was sh*t, I mean absolutely diabolical. I can remember him hand balling to players running past and it would go 2 meters behind where the player was....he's cleaned it up with the better mids around him.

He was unfit or didn't have a tank or what ever you want to call it. He was only good for about 60% to 70% of game time. He's lifted that to being able to stay on the field as long as any of our mids.

His disposal count was below what an inside mid should be getting. He's improved to a point where he regularly gets above 25 possessions a game even along side 2 to 3 another high possession clearance mids also getting ball.

He's somehow gone away and got everything to a point where he's actually a very good player, it's one of the best St Kilda stories of the year. We have a guy who was probably a delisted player at the end of his contract to being a top 10 player at the club. An absolutely brilliant and positive thing to happen in a very frustrating year where others went backwards or stagnated. Some seem to think he deserves to be punished for not being as good in the past.
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The bubble burst and we're back to the normal state of disappointment but this year's good news stories are everywhere.

Crouch and Snaggs were fantastic pickups.
Highmore awesome, Byrnes too. Leo is gonna be a good player for us. Dunstan and Dmac redeemed and even Mason Wood has had a touch of the good oil.

I honestly think we'll look back on this year as the making of team.
We're still making too many mistakes, but if we're honest then we'd have to expect cohesion to be poor given the mass of changes.
 
gringo2011 said:
Dunny had some good points but it looked like he had three major impediments.

His disposal was sh*t, I mean absolutely diabolical. I can remember him hand balling to players running past and it would go 2 meters behind where the player was....he's cleaned it up with the better mids around him.

He was unfit or didn't have a tank or what ever you want to call it. He was only good for about 60% to 70% of game time. He's lifted that to being able to stay on the field as long as any of our mids.

His disposal count was below what an inside mid should be getting. He's improved to a point where he regularly gets above 25 possessions a game even along side 2 to 3 another high possession clearance mids also getting ball.

He's somehow gone away and got everything to a point where he's actually a very good player, it's one of the best St Kilda stories of the year. We have a guy who was probably a delisted player at the end of his contract to being a top 10 player at the club. An absolutely brilliant and positive thing to happen in a very frustrating year where others went backwards or stagnated. Some seem to think he deserves to be punished for not being as good in the past.
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He's also never been a great contested ball winner for an inside mid.

If you looked at his career stats you'd just think he was a similar type of player to Seb Ross.

Even this year where he's playing better than ever, his contested numbers are still a long way off the best in the comp
 
bird_man said:
He's also never been a great contested ball winner for an inside mid.

If you looked at his career stats you'd just think he was a similar type of player to Seb Ross.

Even this year where he's playing better than ever, his contested numbers are still a long way off the best in the comp
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He's surprisingly 5th in the comp this year for kicks inside 50 pg. His role seems to be to motor out of traffic and boot the ball to the top of the square, I noticed in that game he's actually pretty good at wheeling around even under tackle pressure and getting a kick off so that is pretty much what Seb used to play like. 18th in the comp for clearances pg. 5th for stoppage clearances pg and 17th for tackles pg. That is a pretty good snap shot of how he's playing IMO. Pretty much like a tough version of what Seb Ross was the last few years but with a the ability to win first use.
 
bird_man said:
He's also never been a great contested ball winner for an inside mid.

If you looked at his career stats you'd just think he was a similar type of player to Seb Ross.

Even this year where he's playing better than ever, his contested numbers are still a long way off the best in the comp
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Also playing as the more accountable mid in the set up we have, he's usually blocking for Crouch and Steele as he stands guys like Boak. He's the tradesman for the specialist to do the class work. Since he came in the midfield looks a lot better. Jones is dynamic but plays a free wheeling style and if we don't win the ball it's off the other way. Crouch was always considered a bit of a one way runner and Steele is just an all rounder who does it all well. I think Luke's workman like role actually benefits the side because it frees up the better mids.
 
gringo2011 said:
Also playing as the more accountable mid in the set up we have, he's usually blocking for Crouch and Steele as he stands guys like Boak. He's the tradesman for the specialist to do the class work. Since he came in the midfield looks a lot better. Jones is dynamic but plays a free wheeling style and if we don't win the ball it's off the other way. Crouch was always considered a bit of a one way runner and Steele is just an all rounder who does it all well. I think Luke's workman like role actually benefits the side because it frees up the better mids.
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I think Dunstan has been an important cog for our midfield the last 2 months. When we lose the contested ball count in a game we suddenly question whether the midfield mix is right.
I still think Seb should be rotating in their a little bit more as well to allow Steeley to go forward a bit more. As Steele is the only mid we have who can be a point of difference down there. Seb can also play a bit of a defensive role if needed on someone like Wines if Dunstan just isn’t quite getting the job done in that regard.
When you look at the rest of the comp you’d have to say our midfield (although may lack the class of a few others) is not far off some of the best in the comp, and the numbers in the last 6 weeks (besides Saturday) back that up. We’ve lacked continuity more than most other teams and are still inexperienced when it comes to playing together as a midfield group (Crouch Jones being new and injuries and lack of games to Jones, Byrnes, Dunny, Gresh etc)

Steele, Crouch, Dunstan, Jones, Ross, Byrnes doesn’t read too bad to me.

From Rd 15-17 CBA stats
Steele 54 attendances 86%
Dunstan 53 attendances 84%
Crouch 49 attendances 77%
Byrnes 16 attendances 31%
Jones 14 attendances 54% (one game)
Ross 3 attendances 5%
 
puppy_dog7 said:
I think Dunstan has been an important cog for our midfield the last 2 months. When we lose the contested ball count in a game we suddenly question whether the midfield mix is right.
I still think Seb should be rotating in their a little bit more as well to allow Steeley to go forward a bit more. As Steele is the only mid we have who can be a point of difference down there. Seb can also play a bit of a defensive role if needed on someone like Wines if Dunstan just isn’t quite getting the job done in that regard.
When you look at the rest of the comp you’d have to say our midfield (although may lack the class of a few others) is not far off some of the best in the comp, and the numbers in the last 6 weeks (besides Saturday) back that up. We’ve lacked continuity more than most other teams and are still inexperienced when it comes to playing together as a midfield group (Crouch Jones being new and injuries and lack of games to Jones, Byrnes, Dunny, Gresh etc)

Steele, Crouch, Dunstan, Jones, Ross, Byrnes doesn’t read too bad to me.

From Rd 15-17 CBA stats
Steele 54 attendances 86%
Dunstan 53 attendances 84%
Crouch 49 attendances 77%
Byrnes 16 attendances 31%
Jones 14 attendances 54% (one game)
Ross 3 attendances 5%
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Agree. You can never have too many good mids, especially if you can use guys like Steele, Gresh and Byrnes types up forward or in other roles. The Dogs managed to put Libba back in the guts this year despite having a ridiculous amount of quality in the centre. It hasn't damaged their balance at all.

Our midfield is a real strength all of a sudden.
 
gringo2011 said:
Agree. You can never have too many good mids, especially if you can use guys like Steele, Gresh and Byrnes types up forward or in other roles. The Dogs managed to put Libba back in the guts this year despite having a ridiculous amount of quality in the centre. It hasn't damaged their balance at all.

Our midfield is a real strength all of a sudden.
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That’s a good point. Look at the dogs. At full strength they have Bont, Libba, Macrae in the guts with Treloar and Dunkley still there. Smith and Hunter pushed to the wings and Lipinski in the twos.

Bont and Dunkley pretty much play forward and just run to the contest when they’re at full strength.

Steele and Gresh being Bont and Dunkley suits us. Dunstan is Libba and Crouch is Macrae. Clark can be Smith and Byrnes is the more outside Hunter. Jones becomes Treloar, he even has the soft tissue injuries. Bytel is Lipinski who sits in the twos until someone gets injured.
 
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Ephemeral Hope said:
That’s a good point. Look at the dogs. At full strength they have Bont, Libba, Macrae in the guts with Treloar and Dunkley still there. Smith and Hunter pushed to the wings and Lipinski in the twos.

Bont and Dunkley pretty much play forward and just run to the contest when they’re at full strength.

Steele and Gresh being Bont and Dunkley suits us. Dunstan is Libba and Crouch is Macrae. Clark can be Smith and Byrnes is the more outside Hunter. Jones becomes Treloar, he even has the soft tissue injuries. Bytel is Lipinski who sits in the twos until someone gets injured.
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If we keep our first round draft pick we can pick up a good midfielder in the draft as long as we can stay around pick 8 mark.
 
Just a hypothetical but would anything have changed had we drafted Heath with one of our late picks? I know we were interested but passed. We’ve ended up taking him anyway half a year later.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
Just a hypothetical but would anything have changed had we drafted Heath with one of our late picks? I know we were interested but passed. We’ve ended up taking him anyway half a year later.
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We may of wanted him later but when highmore was still available late we traded up to get him. Stoked to get him mid season and looking forward to see how he goes this weekend for the dragons
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
Just a hypothetical but would anything have changed had we drafted Heath with one of our late picks? I know we were interested but passed. We’ve ended up taking him anyway half a year later.
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I think we were happy to let him get some footy under his belt this year. Knowing we had a few spare places on the list meant we were probably a good chance of getting him mid year.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
Just a hypothetical but would anything have changed had we drafted Heath with one of our late picks? I know we were interested but passed. We’ve ended up taking him anyway half a year later.
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Had we used a late pick he'd have a 2 year contract, although we could have used a rookie spot it's pretty clear the club was intent on some DFAs for those places.

I can see that with almost no footy played last year and Max finishing skool this year clubs would be hesitant as not only did we pass on drafting him, so did 17 other clubs.
 
ScrappyDo said:
Had we used a late pick he'd have a 2 year contract, although we could have used a rookie spot it's pretty clear the club was intent on some DFAs for those places.

I can see that with almost no footy played last year and Max finishing skool this year clubs would be hesitant as not only did we pass on drafting him, so did 17 other clubs.
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With list reductions project rucks weren't in high demand. Lots of the best ruck options missed out at the ND.
 
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