Teams 2021 St.Kilda Best 22 (assuming all players are fit)

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Yawkey way

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I won’t go into the different roles players have within the team but exactly what qualifies as finding enough of the ball is clearly open to debate.

Anyway personally I think quite a few spots might be up for grabs and I couldn’t care less who gets them so long as the saints are winning. I have no idea if Higgins is seen as best 22 by the club but watching him play he certainly doesn’t seem slow. I’ve often looked at the combine results and wondered how meaningful they are in isolation, this is an interesting piece I read recently that touches on in game and testing speed.

 

Crusty Undies

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It’s your team and I liked the method I just don’t see based on pretty limited evidence that he’s a best 22 lock. I hope by this time next year with some runs on the board we can say that but played 10 games in a team that didn’t have great small forward options when he wasn’t injured, versus coming into a team with a lot of small forward options.
Didn't have great small forward options? You're joking right? Richmond would have the biggest depth of small forwards of any team in the league. Dan Butler was struggling for a game there and we've seen what some more opportunity has done for him.
 

BrutThough

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Didn't have great small forward options? You're joking right? Richmond would have the biggest depth of small forwards of any team in the league. Dan Butler was struggling for a game there and we've seen what some more opportunity has done for him.
Which one of Jason Castanga, Daniel Rioli or Jake Aarts do you consider a great player?

All do a good job playing a certain role in the Richmond forward line but none are particularly great players in their own right.
 

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Crusty Undies

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Which one of Jason Castanga, Daniel Rioli or Jake Aarts do you consider a great player?

All do a good job playing a certain role in the Richmond forward line but none are particularly great players in their own right.
Dusty spent half the finals as a small forward, Kane Lambert spends most of his time there too. Shai Bolton, Sydney Stack and Marlion Pickett have all been predominantly small forwards who can rotate through the midfield and wings. None of them except dusty are worldbeaters but to say Richmond don't have small forward options is absolute nonsense. They built a style based around small, high pressure forwards and they've had enough spare to let 3 go in the past 2 years without it impacting their ability to win premierships.
 

BrutThough

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Dusty spent half the finals as a small forward, Kane Lambert spends most of his time there too. Shai Bolton, Sydney Stack and Marlion Pickett have all been predominantly small forwards who can rotate through the midfield and wings. None of them except dusty are worldbeaters but to say Richmond don't have small forward options is absolute nonsense. They built a style based around small, high pressure forwards and they've had enough spare to let 3 go in the past 2 years without it impacting their ability to win premierships.
Bolton played a lot more midfield in 2020. Pickett primarily on the wing and rarely spent time as a small forward. Stack played as much at half back or in the midfield as he did up forward.

They do have options, but I agree with the original comment that their small forwards are all average players.
 

phantom13

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Yeh...

For me if were expanding the "Small Forward" to include Lambert, Dusty, Bolton (Prestia) then Higgins is further back cause hes competing with Steele, Hanners etc.

Tigers small forwards
Castagna, Aarts, Rioli, Pickett and Higgins couldnt break into that side.

Saints small forwards ahead of Higgins
Butler, Billings, Gresh

Im suprised at how contraversial saying "Higgins isnt a lock for our best 22" is to be honest. I hope he gets back to that rising star form and better but based on his output and our depth i think hes got a fight on his hands (which is a good thing).

Put it this way. King, Membrey, Butler, Gresh and Billings are all likely locks for the forward line. Hill, Steele, Jones, Crouch, Clark, Hanners are our Mids (either resting forward or on the bench) thats 11 players. If you take the midfield group (5 positions) forwards (6 positions) and bench (3 positions if were playing 2 rucks). you have 3 spots left. Is Higgins getting one of those every week? I dont think he is.
 

phantom13

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Dusty spent half the finals as a small forward, Kane Lambert spends most of his time there too. Shai Bolton, Sydney Stack and Marlion Pickett have all been predominantly small forwards who can rotate through the midfield and wings. None of them except dusty are worldbeaters but to say Richmond don't have small forward options is absolute nonsense. They built a style based around small, high pressure forwards and they've had enough spare to let 3 go in the past 2 years without it impacting their ability to win premierships.
I think thats based way more on depth of players, system and mids. Dusty, Edwards, Lambert, Cotchin, Prestia, Bolton, McIntosh, Graham arent traditional small forwards but sort of roll through the whole of the ground at times.

Higgins is either competing with proper small forwards (if so hes behind Butler, Gresh and Billings, ala Rioli, Bolton, Castagna) or hes competing with our rolling mid/fwds Crouch, Steele, Hanners, Hill, Jones, Clark and the above).

Either way hes not one of the first picked in my opinion.
 

The Jack

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Which one of Jason Castanga, Daniel Rioli or Jake Aarts do you consider a great player?
3 duds. Proves you don’t have to be that good to be a premiership player. Don’t tell Dermie. Right place, right time. You need plenty of luck and good timing thrown in with some star team mates. Our time will come.
 

Gershwin

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Yeh...

For me if were expanding the "Small Forward" to include Lambert, Dusty, Bolton (Prestia) then Higgins is further back cause hes competing with Steele, Hanners etc.

Tigers small forwards
Castagna, Aarts, Rioli, Pickett and Higgins couldnt break into that side.

Saints small forwards ahead of Higgins
Butler, Billings, Gresh

Im suprised at how contraversial saying "Higgins isnt a lock for our best 22" is to be honest. I hope he gets back to that rising star form and better but based on his output and our depth i think hes got a fight on his hands (which is a good thing).

Put it this way. King, Membrey, Butler, Gresh and Billings are all likely locks for the forward line. Hill, Steele, Jones, Crouch, Clark, Hanners are our Mids (either resting forward or on the bench) thats 11 players. If you take the midfield group (5 positions) forwards (6 positions) and bench (3 positions if were playing 2 rucks). you have 3 spots left. Is Higgins getting one of those every week? I dont think he is.
I don’t think Billings is a lock for the best 22. He needs to have greater impact on games. I think he will get squeezed out of the team.


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enricoisbest

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Long time watcher first time poster.

More excited about our prospects for this year than I have been for ages. Genuinely believe we have the cattle to have a crack at top 4 and after that - anything could happen.

Lots of young players enter this year with another preseason and with that a tougher more AFL prepared body.

Best 22 if all fit

B Paton Howard Wilkie
HB Coffield Carlisle Webster
C Hill Steele Billings
HF Gresham Membrey Higgins
F Marshall King Butler
R Ryder Jones Crouch

I/C Hannebery Clark Battle Ross
 

Crusty Undies

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Bolton played a lot more midfield in 2020. Pickett primarily on the wing and rarely spent time as a small forward. Stack played as much at half back or in the midfield as he did up forward.

They do have options, but I agree with the original comment that their small forwards are all average players.
They were all played in an alternate position tho. The fact that they have small forwards who can double as mids or hbfs doesn't mean they have no small forward depth, it means they have so much they can afford to play them elsewhere. And unlike your comparisons to mids who can play fwd like Steele or Gresh, they are all fwd/mids or fwd/hbfs. Primarily small forwards but talented enouhgh to play elsewhere and required to because they're overflowing on small forwards.
 

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BrutThough

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They were all played in an alternate position tho. The fact that they have small forwards who can double as mids or hbfs doesn't mean they have no small forward depth, it means they have so much they can afford to play them elsewhere. And unlike your comparisons to mids who can play fwd like Steele or Gresh, they are all fwd/mids or fwd/hbfs. Primarily small forwards but talented enouhgh to play elsewhere and required to because they're overflowing on small forwards.
Pickett is not a small forward in any capacity. He is a full time midfielder and played more than 70% of time in the midfield in 2020.

Stack played some time forward, midfield and back this season, and his season total of 2 goals helps support the statement that the small forwards they have are average players (or below average looking at Stacks performances).
 

gringo2011

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Pickett is not a small forward in any capacity. He is a full time midfielder and played more than 70% of time in the midfield in 2020.

Stack played some time forward, midfield and back this season, and his season total of 2 goals helps support the statement that the small forwards they have are average players (or below average looking at Stacks performances).
They have good pressure forwards. None of them are one way players and are expected to pressure every kick. Richmond also play a chaos ball kick up forward so their forwards don't get lots of easy shots. Their side is built on work ethic and trust that everyone plays their role. They are hard to see the purity of talent because of it. They are deceptively good rather than an average side that plays as a team.
 

Crusty Undies

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Pickett is not a small forward in any capacity. He is a full time midfielder and played more than 70% of time in the midfield in 2020.

Stack played some time forward, midfield and back this season, and his season total of 2 goals helps support the statement that the small forwards they have are average players (or below average looking at Stacks performances).
None of them played small forward this season, that's literally precisely my point. They have such a plethora of small forwards that they are forced/allowed to play them in different positions. It's still a ridiculous assertion that Richmond don't have small forward depth when, as I've said and has been on display for the last 4 years; they've built a system upon which scoring relies on small forwards. If they didn't have a plethora of quality small forwards they would not have won 3 of the last 4 premierships.
 

hayes

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Richmond want super quick forwards around Lynch and Riewoldt. They don’t give a stuff whether the smalls kick goals or not because they know someone will be kicking goals from the turnovers they create. Most average only a goal a game, Higgins wasn’t able to do that in his time there. Does a decent job at finding the ball for a small forward though.
 

BrutThough

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None of them played small forward this season, that's literally precisely my point. They have such a plethora of small forwards that they are forced/allowed to play them in different positions. It's still a ridiculous assertion that Richmond don't have small forward depth when, as I've said and has been on display for the last 4 years; they've built a system upon which scoring relies on small forwards. If they didn't have a plethora of quality small forwards they would not have won 3 of the last 4 premierships.
I'm not saying they don't have depth. I'm saying that their small forwards are average players. They players they field in those positions every single week last year - Rioli, Castagna, Aarts - are all average quality players who are able to fulfil the specific role they are given. Their scoring system in 2020 also didn't rely on those small forwards to win them games - all went at under 1 goal a game with the majority of their scoring coming from their talls and Martin.

Bolton is a very good player but he played more in the midfield this year in the same way we moved Gresh a few years ago into the midfield - not because our small forward options were great but because Gresh/Bolton was too talented to be in the forward pocket all game. And if Pickett hasn't played as a small forward at AFL level. Saying he is some type off small forward depth despite not actually playing that position makes no sense at all. They aren't playing him in the midfield because they have so many great small forwards. He is playing in the midfield because he is a midfielder.
 

Joffaboy

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Personally don't care who Richmond use as small forwards, whomever they are, it seems to work. If the bonus is we pick up the likes of Higgins and Butler, I won't be complaining.

Butler was in the AA squad, and Higgins is an upgrade on Hind/Lonie/Kent.

And while I appreciate the discussion on their small forwards, we tend to get caught up in individual worth not worth to the team structure.

Rioli, Castagna, Aarts, are they better than Butler and Higgins individually is the debate. What they bring to a successful gameplan and team structure is the actual point.

I think the argument is whether Higgins fits the STKFC team structure and gameplan as Butler obviously did. We won't know that until there is proof, however I doubt our recruiters select players from other clubs on sentiment. So far there targets have fitted very well into a moribund St.Kilda lineup. The 5 were all good pickups in 2019, but low hanging fruit as there were so many holes to fill. The fact that all five (yes even Hill) were an integral part of our finals tilts, plus the likes of Wilkie and draftees Coff, Clark, and Paton shows our recruiting team are switched on.

They have credits in the bank so I would say Higgins will more likely to be a plus more than a bust.

Oh and Billings is in the 22.
 
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pebblesofsand

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None of them played small forward this season, that's literally precisely my point. They have such a plethora of small forwards that they are forced/allowed to play them in different positions. It's still a ridiculous assertion that Richmond don't have small forward depth when, as I've said and has been on display for the last 4 years; they've built a system upon which scoring relies on small forwards. If they didn't have a plethora of quality small forwards they would not have won 3 of the last 4 premierships.
I think they built a system that matched their list. Until they got Lynch they never really had a dominant 2nd tall so they used med/smalls who could run both ways to provide pressure in the back half and scoring pressure in the front half.

The interchange cap is dropping to 75, so it's a fair chance they will find it harder to provide that all over the ground pressure. Further complicated by Jack Reiwoldt being 33 and in decline.

We scored more goals per game than Richmond did last year on an average of 6 less i50's because we have a better spread of taller marking players than them - which should be an advantage with the lower interchange numbers.
 

Phoenix_9

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With Geary injured and Crouch suspended, our round 1 side basically picks itself.

Paton - Howard - Wilkie
Coffield - Carlisle - Clark
Hill - Steele - Billings
Gresham - Membrey - Higgins
Butler - King - Marshall
Ryder - Jones - Ross
Battle - Hannebery - Long - Sinclair

Webster/Long might be battling for the same spot.

Lonie/Kent might sneak in if they want more pure forward options.
 

Kildonan

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SENIORS:
FB:
Wilkie - Howard - Paton
HB: Coffield - Carlisle - Long

C: Hill - Clark - Jones
R: Ryder - Crouch - Steele

HF: Billings - Marshall - Higgins
FF: Membrey - King - Butler

IC: Gresham - Hannebery - Battle - Sinclair

RESERVES:
FB:
Clavarino - Frawley - Joyce
HB: Webster - Highmore - Connolly

C: McKenzie - Ross - Byrnes
R: Alabakis - Dunstan - Bytel

HF: Lonie - Allison - Kent
FF: - McKernan -

IC:
 

Kildonan

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I also left out Roberton ... and Mason Wood
 
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Brains Trust66

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Long time watcher first time poster.

More excited about our prospects for this year than I have been for ages. Genuinely believe we have the cattle to have a crack at top 4 and after that - anything could happen.

Lots of young players enter this year with another preseason and with that a tougher more AFL prepared body.

Best 22 if all fit

B Paton Howard Wilkie
HB Coffield Carlisle Webster
C Hill Steele Billings
HF Gresham Membrey Higgins
F Marshall King Butler
R Ryder Jones Crouch

I/C Hannebery Clark Battle Ross
Welcome aboard . Always great to have new people on this site . BTW I think my side looks just like yours .


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