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List Mgmt. 2021 Team & Beyond...

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CatToTheFuture said:
Apologies if this is overly negative on Cameron, it's not meant to be. I posted the below elsewhere in regards to the cats chucking it ask in the get Jez:

With two KPFs in the wet we lose a substantial amount of forward half defensive pressure. Last night we lost the game in the middle while our forward mix was mostly right.

Where we and other sides have held ground on Richmond is having strong defensive efforts in f50 otherwise you get slaughtered on the rebound.

I think the MC would be looking at last night and thinking Cameron would have made us actively worse not better.


So what's the cats strategy going forward?

Well on paper they'd be copying west coast 2018 for 2021. Not only has this not beaten Richmond at the MCG but is the polar opposite of what the cats have done since Richmond became the dominant team.

To take advantage of this they need fast ball movement. They currently do not have a system that generates consistently fast ball movement.

It's also debatable whether this is the right strategy for a side that plays at KP. Where it's easier to sag off your man to spoil and so you need good ground level work.

Now bearing in mind that the cats have been chasing Cameron for years as a Hawkins replacement, unofficial offers etc will have been made long in advance of this year.

Those unofficial offers would have been made in a context where Hawkins was seen to be either trailing off the end of his career or outright retiring this year.

That brings us to second aspect here which is the looming ruck situation at the cats.

With Harry Taylor retiring, barring Sam DeKoning putting on 5kgs of muscle before rd 1 Blitz will shift to FB.

Suddenly Stanley has no back up from Blitz in the ruck anywhere outside d50. Hawkins can help a bit in f50 but not through the middle.

We would normally look to Sav as a ruck forward chopping out Stanley but if we are playing Jez + Hawk + Sav then we would have no f50 defensive pressure at all and we'd be really badly exposed on the rebound against sides like the Tigers.

So the MC have a problem here. How do they shoehorn 2 KPFs into a playing style designed for 1?

The cats did not plan for this problem.

So to stay in the window they probably need Hawkins to retire or not recruit Jez at all. Because without pressure forwards preventing rebounds they'll get slaughtered by Richmond


So where does that leave the cats?

Jez has asked to get out now so there's no going back.

The cats are in a situation where the value he adds is only really in a post Hawkins world.

That's looking like 2023 now not 2021 and so the timing means that in the first year he truly adds value as KPF half our midfield is retired and he turns 30.

They can't really retire Hawkins after the year he had, they can't trade in Jez and not play him, they can't lose Blitz ruck work and not play Sav.

So while the value of Jez in the general market is high, any trade for him has a high probability of closing the premiership window for 2021.

Scott might make it work but there have to be wholesale changes to the midfield and its a low probability

So what's a fair trade for Jez if your list of things given up includes your shot at the 2021 premiership?
Click to expand...

You've just articulated something that has been nagging at me; If Harry Taylor retires we have an opportunity to redress the top-heavy nature of our defense.
However if we acquire Jeremy Cameron then we are potentially creating a similar problem in terms of our forward line/ruck division balance, exactly as you have outlined.
 

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Look at our recent losses in finals. We don’t score enough under immense pressure. So game style of over handling the ball to get a perfect possession to control the ball hasn’t got it done.
need metres gain mentality from a stoppage and forward half of the ground.
 
STPer18 said:
Bews and Kolo have to be replaced in the backline, they offer absolutely nothing offensively, are probably two of the worst kicks in the entire comp, and their defensive work is vastly overrated, especially when you consider we've already got O'Connor and Henry respectively who are already superior and are still showing signs of development. Any two players who can both provide run and clean disposal to take their spot. Clark a clear replacement for Bews, and what I'd give for a Mackie-type to replace Kolo...
Click to expand...

Richmond also have a lot of Indigenous talent.
Not to make it a race debate or anything of the sort but the Indigenous athletes make brilliant footballers (given they are the original creators of the game). They are built for speed and Richmond had four of them stretching our defense last night.
It's been a key factor to their success.
Another reason why West Coast will forever remain a strong and successful club.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
Richmond don't have to beat Richmond. West coast didn't have to either.
Click to expand...

WCE beat Richmond by 8 goals in 2018 and kicked 20 goals. Darling had 6 and Kennedy 3. Worked then.

How many teams have Kennedy/Darling, Lynch/Riewoldt or Hawkins/Cameron upfront?

I'm not sure where the problem lies having 2 of the best forwards in your team is?
 
thecatattack said:
WCE beat Richmond by 8 goals in 2018 and kicked 20 goals. Darling had 6 and Kennedy 3. Worked then.

How many teams have Kennedy/Darling, Lynch/Riewoldt or Hawkins/Cameron upfront?

I'm not sure where the problem lies having 2 of the best forwards in your team is?
Click to expand...
Cameron and Hawkins will be an awesome forward line, that's the least of our worries. It's why I'd like some flair and attack off half-back, gives those up the field an open forward half to work in. Only time you get a relatively open forward line is from a centre clearance, or a rebound/turnover. We lack genuine bounce out of the back-half.
 
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This was our leadership group this year:

Joel Selwood - 200 games as captain
Patrick Dangerfield - 3rd year vice captain
Mark Blicavs - 2nd year vice captain
Mitch Duncan - 7th year (according to club release but I think it's only 6 years. First added to the group in 2014, omitted in 2015 & returned in 2016)
Zach Tuohy - 3rd year
Tom Stewart - 2nd year
Mark O’Connor - 1st year


Let's have a refresh of this group and it's nothing against the guys in there but it feels a bit defence heavy. Also look at the next group coming through, because only one of those guys will be under 28 come the start of next season

Love Joel and everything he's bought to the club, but gotta think things are coming to an end. No doubt on his leadership abilities, and they will be evident regardless of the title, but does he step down from the captaincy for the last year (maybe 2) of his career to relieve some of the pressure that comes with being captain & he can just play?

In terms of the next captain, the obvious choices seem Dangerfield or Blicavs as they are the current vice captains, and long been said how well respected Blicavs is within the club walls

This is slightly left field, though not really as he is in the leadership group - Mitch Duncan. He's done a 6-year apprenticeship in the leadership group & he really stood up this finals series; as per coaches votes he was BOG against Brisbane, equal BOG against Collingwood, and with 3 votes last night, he was the only Cat to pick up votes in the Norm Smith



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STPer18 said:
Cameron and Hawkins will be an awesome forward line, that's the least of our worries. It's why I'd like some flair and attack off half-back, gives those up the field an open forward line to work in. Only time you get a relatively open forward line is from a centre clearance, or a rebound/turnover. We lack genuine bounce out of the back-half.
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree.

Someone like Clark will be key for us. We need calm and collected, elite ball users out of defense.
 
Cursed Cat said:
You've just articulated something that has been nagging at me; If Harry Taylor retires we have an opportunity to redress the top-heavy nature of our defense.
However if we acquire Jeremy Cameron then we are potentially creating a similar problem in terms of our forward line/ruck division balance, exactly as you have outlined.
Click to expand...
I think we'll need to keep the taller defensive line. Protects from long kicks into f50 and slows up ball movement against us
 
Changes I want to see include the Club playing hard ball more about home games, home strips etc etc. The diplomatic angle isn't really working. I want some backbone.

There's no reason we should be playing spud teams like Essendon and Hawthorn at the G any more, for instance.
 

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Chinacats said:
I expect Selwood will only play 15-16 games next year. He is too slow now. I think forward pocket could be a position as he is a decent kick. So kicking for goal and short kicks in and around 50 might suit. But his lack of pace is a worry. That would be exposed down back on quick forwards.
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Agree. And a very good decision maker. Would prefer him to give it away, though. We got up and comers who could do that spot. Retire on top.
 
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CatToTheFuture said:
I think we'll need to keep the taller defensive line. Protects from long kicks into f50 and slows up ball movement against us
Click to expand...

What's your best back 6 combo CttF?

It's a tough one imo; Henderson and Blicavs are obvious choices, but then again De Koning will need exposure.

Is Henry a 3rd tall defender or can he make the transition to KD? I like his mobility a lot.

Kolodjashnij and Bews have very tough jobs. Honest players. Personally I'd be inclined to persist with Bews, but not with Kolo.
That small defender's role is really niche.
 
It will suck not seeing Gaz out there anymore. But we played well when he wasn't in the team this year.

Hopefully we get a few fresh faces in the assistant coaching ranks.

Not too worried about Selwood. We hardly had him this year. But it will most likely be his last year.
Parfitt, Guthrie, Menegola and Duncan are our engine room now. Anyone else are support acts, including Danger.

Getting Cameron should see us not as reliant on Hawkins which will be great.

Hopefully some debuts to add some excitement. Krueger, Stephens, SDK, Evans, whoever we draft this year. Plus Clark being injury free.

One thing I want to see in 2021.. Kolo always kicking down the line. Never want to see him kick across defensive 50 ever again unless the player he is kicking to is 50m in the clear. And even then I don't really want to see it.
 
thecatattack said:
Yep, I agree.

Someone like Clark will be key for us. We need calm and collected, elite ball users out of defense.
Click to expand...
The way we play, it must be hell for the tall fowards with 30 players hanging around you. So long as we are treacle slow ball movers, it will remain that way. Be nice to see Clark driving it down.
 
thecatattack said:
WCE beat Richmond by 8 goals in 2018 and kicked 20 goals. Darling had 6 and Kennedy 3. Worked then.

How many teams have Kennedy/Darling, Lynch/Riewoldt or Hawkins/Cameron upfront?

I'm not sure where the problem lies having 2 of the best forwards in your team is?
Click to expand...
It worked for them in west in 2018 and hasn't since.

I mean I appreciate that attacking forward entries with those in there is going to rack up some massive scores.

I just think it's going to leave our backline very exposed if we have to either ruck with Blitz and leave a backline hole, or ruck with Sav/Stanley in combination leaving a f50 defensive hole.
 

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CatToTheFuture said:
It worked for them in west in 2018 and hasn't since.

I mean I appreciate that attacking forward entries with those in there is going to rack up some massive scores.

I just think it's going to leave our backline very exposed if we have to either ruck with Blitz and leave a backline hole, or ruck with Sav/Stanley in combination leaving a f50 defensive hole.
Click to expand...

Blitz will probably go back with H retiring.

Blitz has been rucking from the wing anyway so I'm not sure if you've seen that as a problem before the GF or just now.

Blitz back. Cameron replaces Rohan. Danger more time in the mid. I see no problems there.
 
Cursed Cat said:
What's your best back 6 combo CttF?

It's a tough one imo; Henderson and Blicavs are obvious choices, but then again De Koning will need exposure.

Is Henry a 3rd tall defender or can he make the transition to KD? I like his mobility a lot.

Kolodjashnij and Bews have very tough jobs. Honest players. Personally I'd be inclined to persist with Bews, but not with Kolo.
That small defender's role is really niche.
Click to expand...
I think with the players we have the back 6 is about right. Taylor out for a ready made DEK would be ideal so we can keep Blitz on the wing/ruck but not sure where he's at. We need a replacement for Hendo for 2022. Maybe Cox or Reid at the draft this year give them a year in the 2s.

As long as our mids keep running to support and using the window given by the slower entries.
 
I love Selwood as captain, he embodies everything you want in a captain and always stands up in big games, as he did last night. I also wouldn't be averse to seeing him hand it over to someone like Stewart; hoping to see Joel with a Boak like resurgence because when on song, Selwood is one of the best mids in the league. I don't think Danger is the right choice for captain and it is purely an age thing.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
It worked for them in west in 2018 and hasn't since.

I mean I appreciate that attacking forward entries with those in there is going to rack up some massive scores.

I just think it's going to leave our backline very exposed if we have to either ruck with Blitz and leave a backline hole, or ruck with Sav/Stanley in combination leaving a f50 defensive hole.
Click to expand...
They were clearing it out of the centre quicksmart, and it was like they had 3 Mitch Duncans delivering quickly to their forwards. We dawdle it down the boundary line.
 
Mark Blicavs is the next captain for mine. Served an apprenticeship as a VC under Joel for a couple of seasons now, and playing around the ball and potentially further into the backline in 2021 he'll be in a great position to lead the team. Just seems to have the abilities within him to lead from the front. For the first three finals Blitz was right next to Joel during the anthem too (yesterday Danger shuffled up the line next to Joel).

Also, having met Blitz a couple of times, he's exactly the kind of person we want representing our club in public. Humble, kind and respectful

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strauchnyy said:
1. Mindfulness mental coach to help the team seize opportunities and keep calmer under pressure so we can kick straight when it matters.

Rest is less important and I’ll post a write up later
Click to expand...

LOL... that bloke would be the richest bloke in the sports world and in demand by bigger clubs than minnows of the AFL world...
 

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