List Mgmt. 2021 Team & Beyond...

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Whit3y said:
Any room in 2021 for our much hyped signings Jack Stevo and Jenko Jenkins?
Click to expand...
I'd be happy to never to see him again,that goes for Zuthrie as well and I'd move Ratugolea on in the Cameron deal.
Worth mentioning Scott was saying throughout the year Steven was best 22 Ratugolea made us a better side and Zuthrie seemed to be a permanent emergency,none played in a final,so much for those thoughts.
 
Cursed Cat said:
Hard to know where to go from here - there'd be those who don't wanna ''throw out the baby with the bathwater'', but I think that it's time to put a line through this current model and start afresh.

- Ablett and presumably Taylor's retirements open up opportunities for some fresh legs.

- Jeremy Cameron will hopefully take some of the burden from Hawkins shoulders.

- Like most of us I've greatly admired Joel Selwood's career, but I wonder whether it might not be time to hand the captaincy reigns on; we need new voices taking ownership of the team.

- Chris Scott will stay for at least another year (and will most likely see out his current contract); he needs to start ensuring that the club does not stagnate into a comfortable retirement home; he has prioritized experience and mature bodies, time to back in some youth for once imo.

- I want to see Parfitt complemented by Fogarty, Simpson and Narkle (if we retain him) in the midfield next year.
There's still a place for Duncan and Guthrie of course, but blokes like Rohan, Dahlhaus and Tuohy should not be keeping kids like Fogarty out of the team. Yes, there will be teething problems and quiet games from a midfield that skews younger; I'm very prepared to endure them.

- The backline needs remodelling; Harry's exit will give us an opportunity to do so.
Jack Henry should be manning one of the KD positions next year; beyond that it should be down to Mark Blicavs vs Lachie Henderson for that 2nd KD role; we don't need both. Ultimately though we will need to give Sam De Koning some opportunities next year; talented kids aren't gonna hang around forever awaiting their chance.

- Patrick Dangerfield is an interesting one; I think we have seen his best (which was great); unfortunately his footy IQ does not match his physical ability. I think expectations surrounding his ability to be our match-winner need to be adjusted.
Park him around half-forward; I really don't like him in the midfield, too sloppy with his disposal. He needs to keep things super-simple. His marking is probably his best strength moving forward, this year I've liked him most when he has been leading up the flanks and wings as a marking target; offers good value in those contests.

More opportunities for Brad Close; give Frank Evans a run ...

Time to freshen the place up.

B: Bews De Koning Kolodjashnij
HB: Stewart Henry O'Connor

C: Menegola Parfitt Duncan

HF: Close Cameron Dangerfield
F: Simpson Hawkins Miers

R: Stanley Guthrie Fogarty

I/C: Selwood (final year) Ratugolea Evans Narkle (if Narkle goes then I'd be giving Cooper opportunities)
Click to expand...
Youve dropped both blicavs and henderson?

fogarty isnt going to make it. neither will close.

de koning is just wildly speculative at this stage And i highly doubt will be ready next year.


ps. We have not got cameron yet.
 
Seeds said:
Youve dropped both blicavs and henderson?

fogarty isnt going to make it. neither will close.

de koning is just wildly speculative at this stage And i highly doubt will be ready next year.


ps. We have not got cameron yet.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see De Koning get opportunities next year - Henderson and Blicavs will no doubt have a part to play, but if we want to keep hold of our young talent we actually have to give them games or they will seek greener pastures.

If we get to - for argument's sake - Rd17 next year and an assault on the premiership is looking unlikely, then yes, I would definitely like the club to actually invest some games in younger players like De Koning and Evans. We know what Henderson and Blicavs are capable of. I like what Henderson did this year and I would have him holding down a KD spot for much of 2021, but ultimately I'd have an eye on getting De Koning into the team if there is scope to do so.

I think the time has come to remodel the backline as I mentioned in the post you quoted. I reckon Henry is capable of holding down a KD spot, but we won't ever know if we don't try him.

Unlike yourself I think Fogarty will make it, hopefully with Geelong, and I think Close showed he is good at his job in his handful of games this year.

I realise Cameron isn't a done deal to this point but the club has shown an ability to get these deals over the line more often than not over the years; I would be surprised if it doesn't get done.
 

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goyoucatters said:
If we'd been able to hold the game on our terms for long enough, we win that match. As it was, we went away from what had been working, became passive and fumbly around the ball, and unsurprisingly got belted mercilessly by a team that thrives on perceived pressure and opponents becoming reactive.

No problems with the game plan for mine. Got us to a very handy position by the half. And as soon as we ceded control of the game to let it be played on their terms instead, we were toast.
Click to expand...
And there inlies the problem. Why is it that against Richmond we cannot get the game on our terms for long enough? We revert to fumbling under pressure and making basic skill errors. Cannot handle the pressure.

The game plan got us to the GF so it obviously works but against Richmond or when teams bring serious pressure it simply doesn’t hold up.

Is that because the players aren’t skilled and composed enough to execute the plan?

It’s funny you say it’s lazy to question the game plan. I wonder if the coaches feel the same way? Maybe they do, it was a carbon copy of last years prelim after all...
 
Good thread
My initial thoughts before reading all the pages are that we needn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater
we were 22 points up in a Grand Final
Surely we are all chips on the table now...
Watch, rings and jewelry too
 
iameviljez said:
Why not? Given he is the president of the AFLPA and the club VC, players clearly respect his leadership.
Click to expand...

I think players just know he can do the talking to people stuff, doesn't mind the spotlight and doesn't really shut up - which they may not enjoy/be good at/want to do. He's fairly professional and he's a smart bloke, too, which helps.

To my mind, some of the best captains of the last decade and a bit have been fairly average footy players (Harley, Ling, Maxwell etc) - certainly not out and out stars. I've got no evidence, of course, but I think being an average footy player will likely make you a better captain because you understand the plight of the other bog average footy players on your list.

Maybe it undersells his empathy or whatever, but Dangerfield has always excelled and been a top talent. A natural football talent. He wouldn't necessarily understand why <Zach Guthrie> (or whoever) can't just do x, y or z. He's never had to get the most out of limited talents.

The other thing is time - he's 31 at the start of next season. He gets the captaincy and then hangs up the boots two, three years later? I'd sooner go a long term prospect like Stewart (28 next season) and lock in some long term stability (and my preference is always for defenders to be captains)
 
Falconx said:
I just hope they play Clark in the backline and not the midfield. I don't care if he is weak defensively since you can just put him up against the oppositions weakest small forward who usually does nothing anyways. It isn't as if we are going to line him up on Papley or Cameron. We seriously need someone other than Stewart who can kick and gain meters.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Kick WELL though, cos we can get a run and kick from Bewsy - it's just not always on target (and I'm a Bewsy fan!)
 
A few immediate needs and a few needs not too far away.


1. A genuine small forward that can hit the scoreboard. Not enough to have smalls that just provide defensive pressure. That should be a given. Is Evans, Close or Tarca capable of filling that role?

2. Another line breaking back. Clark has to play from round one. At the expense of a tall. Kolo is the one to make way for me.

3. Replace Taylor and Ablett. Like to see Blicavs return to a key defensive role. SDK to maybe get a small taste of form justifies. Ablett’s spot looks earmarked for Higgins but I’d prefer to use it on youth.

4. Selwood and Dangerfield. Need to prepare for their exits. Stephens needs to be blooded. Given half a dozen games. Fogarty hopefully also steps up too.

5. Cameron to assist Hawkins will help. He needs a foil badly.

6. Hit the draft with the 3 early picks if we can retain them. Trade up to get Bruhn. Use the other on Perkins. Two classy, quality kids.

7. Draft a young ruck.

8. Game plan. I didn’t mind the tweak in our game plan over the last few weeks. I don’t think that quicker moving game plan is the issue. It’s getting the right players to execute it. At its essence we lost last night purely because we dropped our quality in decision making and execution late in the second quarter from what we were doing earlier. Win the clearances and we win the game. We did early. We didn’t later. Why?
 
Seeds said:
Youve dropped both blicavs and henderson?

fogarty isnt going to make it. neither will close.

de koning is just wildly speculative at this stage And i highly doubt will be ready next year.


ps. We have not got cameron yet.
Click to expand...

Henderson was almost our best player in the second half of the season. Wouldn't have seen that coming.
 
year of the cat said:
A few immediate needs and a few needs not too far away.


1. A genuine small forward that can hit the scoreboard. Not enough to have smalls that just provide defensive pressure. That should be a given. Is Evans, Close or Tarca capable of filling that role?

2. Another line breaking back. Clark has to play from round one. At the expense of a tall. Kolo is the one to make way for me.

3. Replace Taylor and Ablett. Like to see Blicavs return to a key defensive role. SDK to maybe get a small taste of form justifies. Ablett’s spot looks earmarked for Higgins but I’d prefer to use it on youth.

4. Selwood and Dangerfield. Need to prepare for their exits. Stephens needs to be blooded. Given half a dozen games. Fogarty hopefully also steps up too.

5. Cameron to assist Hawkins will help. He needs a foil badly.

6. Hit the draft with the 3 early picks if we can retain them. Trade up to get Bruhn. Use the other on Perkins. Two classy, quality kids.

7. Draft a young ruck.

8. Game plan. I didn’t mind the tweak in our game plan over the last few weeks. I don’t think that quicker moving game plan is the issue. It’s getting the right players to execute it. At its essence we lost last night purely because we dropped our quality in decision making and execution late in the second quarter from what we were doing earlier. Win the clearances and we win the game. We did early. We didn’t later. Why?
Click to expand...
Spit on for me...
 
One thing is id like to try is to make a player on our list as a genuine tagger like Giants to with De Boer, and like the famous day of Cameron Ling... and who that player is..... id try Tom Atkins... might be a way for him to lock his position in trying this..
 
foxdog50 said:
One thing is id like to try is to make a player on our list as a genuine tagger like Giants to with De Boer, and like the famous day of Cameron Ling... and who that player is..... id try Tom Atkins... might be a way for him to lock his position in trying this..
Click to expand...

how handy would Lingy have been last night?
 

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foxdog50 said:
One thing is id like to try is to make a player on our list as a genuine tagger like Giants to with De Boer, and like the famous day of Cameron Ling... and who that player is..... id try Tom Atkins... might be a way for him to lock his position in trying this..
Click to expand...

The style seems to be a kind of run with player. Someone who doesn't completely negate but also gets a few touches. De Boer a little bit, Prestia a little bit, something like that. Not sure who would fit that description right now but I'm sure someone could be groomed.
 
Partridge said:
The style seems to be a kind of run with player. Someone who doesn't completely negate but also gets a few touches. De Boer a little bit, Prestia a little bit, something like that. Not sure who would fit that description right now but I'm sure someone could be groomed.
Click to expand...

Parfitt seems to be the most equipped of our current batch I think. And was playing well last night till getting injured.
 
Partridge said:
The style seems to be a kind of run with player. Someone who doesn't completely negate but also gets a few touches. De Boer a little bit, Prestia a little bit, something like that. Not sure who would fit that description right now but I'm sure someone could be groomed.
Click to expand...
Thats why I thought Atkins, does have a bit of tank in him, as he could play in the mid, plus has a bit of Mongrel about him...
 
CatToTheFuture said:
And I think we can probably replicate a lot of that clearance work with what we have but it's a clear structural shift away from what the list has been trained to do for years now
Click to expand...
I noticed better foot passing this season, but mainly it seemed to be designed for even more slow play, similar to a Hawthorn style of past years. If that can be worked on off season to speed up ball movement instead of slowing it, it would be of great benefit.

We have success during the season with a style of play that never does any good against the gun finals teams. I think player for player we match any team inc Richmond.
 
OddYears said:
And there inlies the problem. Why is it that against Richmond we cannot get the game on our terms for long enough? We revert to fumbling under pressure and making basic skill errors. Cannot handle the pressure.

The game plan got us to the GF so it obviously works but against Richmond or when teams bring serious pressure it simply doesn’t hold up.

Is that because the players aren’t skilled and composed enough to execute the plan?

It’s funny you say it’s lazy to question the game plan. I wonder if the coaches feel the same way? Maybe they do, it was a carbon copy of last years prelim after all...
Click to expand...

Your analysis would hold up if it can be proven that Richmond weren't applying sufficient pressure in the first half of both of these games, and then increased this pressure to 'unsustainable levels' (for us) in the respective second halves. After all, our game plan was clearly working very effectively in the first half of both matches, notwithstanding the inability to convert our dominance into significant scoreboard advantage on either occasion.

This hypothesis of 'crumbling under extreme pressure' would mean that Richmond just cruised through the first half of both matches, and then lifted 'as necessary' because the Cats were actually posing some sort of challenge. My observation of both games would be that, rather than seeing the Tigers massively lift after half-time, we just dropped away alarmingly. Much like we did in the third quarter of the QF against Port. And yet we played four quality quarters against the Lions in the PF a week ago, and against the admittedly rather insipid Pies in the SF as well.

So is it really because our game plan is 'unsustainable' for four quarters against the very best teams? Given it's based on less frenetic activity and more 'control' than a team like the Tigers, I find that hard to justify rationally. At the ground, still felt much more to me like we just dropped our intensity and got overwhelmed by the surge in a maddening rerun of last year's PF.

Which means I'm still not convinced that the game plan is such a huge issue. What's more, for any who think we should ape the Tigers' approach, I actually think that's even less likely to meet with success. They have achieved such synergy with it that I don't see any team coming up with anything other than a pale imitation. Surely the way to beat them is to devise a game plan that is different and sustainably disruptive to their 'chaos is king' philosophy. In that sense, it's entirely understandable that a game plan based on 'control' would be intuitively probable to counter their extreme chaos.

I also believe it's significant that we are the team that has run them closest (at least in terms of looking like we could hold and potentially break away from them) in every single one of their premiership years. Our game plan (or some adaptation of it) has shown the most prospect of actually being the scheme to bring them down. Getting to the point where we can be ascendant for longer has clearly been the biggest problem in the last two finals against them. But proving superior for two quarters each time is a demonstrable improvement on anything any other side has managed against them in their flag seasons; hence my belief that suggesting the game plan is hugely problematic is somewhat lazy analysis.
 
Last edited:
FB: O'Connor Henderson Bews
HB: Clark Blicavs Stewart
C: Menegola Higgins Duncan
HF: Miers Cameron Dangerfield
FF: Dahlhaus Hawkins Rohan
Foll: Stanley Guthrie Selwood
Int: Henry Simpson Parfitt Touhy
 
Cursed Cat said:
Hard to know where to go from here - there'd be those who don't wanna ''throw out the baby with the bathwater'', but I think that it's time to put a line through this current model and start afresh.

- Ablett and presumably Taylor's retirements open up opportunities for some fresh legs.

- Jeremy Cameron will hopefully take some of the burden from Hawkins shoulders.

- Like most of us I've greatly admired Joel Selwood's career, but I wonder whether it might not be time to hand the captaincy reigns on; we need new voices taking ownership of the team.

- Chris Scott will stay for at least another year (and will most likely see out his current contract); he needs to start ensuring that the club does not stagnate into a comfortable retirement home; he has prioritized experience and mature bodies, time to back in some youth for once imo.

- I want to see Parfitt complemented by Fogarty, Simpson and Narkle (if we retain him) in the midfield next year.
There's still a place for Duncan and Guthrie of course, but blokes like Rohan, Dahlhaus and Tuohy should not be keeping kids like Fogarty out of the team. Yes, there will be teething problems and quiet games from a midfield that skews younger; I'm very prepared to endure them.

- The backline needs remodelling; Harry's exit will give us an opportunity to do so.
Jack Henry should be manning one of the KD positions next year; beyond that it should be down to Mark Blicavs vs Lachie Henderson for that 2nd KD role; we don't need both. Ultimately though we will need to give Sam De Koning some opportunities next year; talented kids aren't gonna hang around forever awaiting their chance.

- Patrick Dangerfield is an interesting one; I think we have seen his best (which was great); unfortunately his footy IQ does not match his physical ability. I think expectations surrounding his ability to be our match-winner need to be adjusted.
Park him around half-forward; I really don't like him in the midfield, too sloppy with his disposal. He needs to keep things super-simple. His marking is probably his best strength moving forward, this year I've liked him most when he has been leading up the flanks and wings as a marking target; offers good value in those contests.

More opportunities for Brad Close; give Frank Evans a run ...

Time to freshen the place up.

B: Bews De Koning Kolodjashnij
HB: Stewart Henry O'Connor

C: Menegola Parfitt Duncan

HF: Close Cameron Dangerfield
F: Simpson Hawkins Miers

R: Stanley Guthrie Fogarty

I/C: Selwood (final year) Ratugolea Evans Narkle (if Narkle goes then I'd be giving Cooper opportunities)
Click to expand...
BLICAVS?
 
coylez said:
FB: O'Connor Henderson Bews
HB: Clark Blicavs Stewart
C: Menegola Higgins Duncan
HF: Miers Cameron Dangerfield
FF: Dahlhaus Hawkins Rohan
Foll: Stanley Guthrie Selwood
Int: Henry Simpson Parfitt Touhy
Click to expand...

I wouldn't play Hendo, Higgins, Dahl or Rohan. Depth only.

Get Sav, Simpson, Narkle, Close, Jarvis etc in there instead
 
coylez said:
FB: O'Connor Henderson Bews
HB: Clark Blicavs Stewart
C: Menegola Higgins Duncan
HF: Miers Cameron Dangerfield
FF: Dahlhaus Hawkins Rohan
Foll: Stanley Guthrie Selwood
Int: Henry Simpson Parfitt Touhy
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that team looks like it still loses to tigers. So frustrating but we need edge on either speed or clearances.
 
coylez said:
FB: O'Connor Henderson Bews
HB: Clark Blicavs Stewart
C: Menegola Higgins Duncan
HF: Miers Cameron Dangerfield
FF: Dahlhaus Hawkins Rohan
Foll: Stanley Guthrie Selwood
Int: Henry Simpson Parfitt Touhy
Click to expand...

Looking further - a post Selwood, Henderson team

B: Bews, DeKoning, O’Connor
HB: Clark, ........... , Stewart
C: Menegola, Duncan, ..........
HF: Simpson, Cameron, ........
F: Miers, Hawkins, Dangerfield

Foll: Stanley, Parfitt, Guthrie

Int: Henry, Fogarty, Stephens, Blicavs

Need more run. And elite ball users.
 
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