Analysis 2021 trade and list management thread 1

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7577969923

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Did you listen to the Q&A? they kind of let slip this is a 4 year plan.

They also mentioned the senior experienced players they want around the group and Hall wasn’t one of them.

They also mentioned the age demographic they want for the list and Brown didn’t fit into it at 29 this year. Hall just turned 30.


Barring a career best year, Hall will be traded or delisted next year.

He’s a 30 year old, fringe 22 player in a side that wants to build around their core 20-22 year olds.
I kind of think he would have to have a career-best year and show that he is great at working with the younger players to have a chance of getting another contract. Definitely capable of playing at AFL level but that may not matter given the stage we are at.
 

FlyHigh18

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There were many moments last year where Hall looked like a doofus bc the rest of the team couldn’t match his pace. He’ll be better now that we have legs.

Age might not fit the direction of the club but speed, agility and mobility certainly does.

I’d back him in, he’ll stay.
 

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Snake_Baker

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There were many moments last year where Hall looked like a doofus bc the rest of the team couldn’t match his pace. He’ll be better now that we have legs.

Age might not fit the direction of the club but speed, agility and mobility certainly does.

I’d back him in, he’ll stay.

I agree, our synchronicity was terrible last year, and it was the result of the major shift in game plan.

I hope they are going to drill, drill, drill with footballs a lot in the preseason.
 

Egga

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Priority signings:
LDU
Larkey
McDonald
McKay

Also extend:
Tarrant
Ziebell
Comben
Dumont
Perez
J Walker

Will need to prove themselves:
Bonar
Hayden
Garner
Tyson
EVW & WWalker (if given 1 yr extensions)

Gone:
Hall

Can’t Decide:
Atley - could fall into the same boat as Macmillan. Or not.
Campbell - could be retained as backup. Or not.
Mahoney
 

Da Humph

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Priority signings:
LDU
Larkey
McDonald
McKay

Also extend:
Tarrant
Ziebell
Comben
Dumont
Perez
J Walker

Will need to prove themselves:
Bonar
Hayden
Garner
Tyson
EVW & WWalker (if given 1 yr extensions)

Gone:
Hall

Can’t Decide:
Atley - could fall into the same boat as Macmillan. Or not.
Campbell - could be retained as backup. Or not.
Mahoney
Would be looking closely at his form next season. Doesn’t warrant an extension based off of this year.
 

Snake_Baker

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Would be looking closely at his form next season. Doesn’t warrant an extension based off of this year.
Would you be giving Cunnington a contract under the same criteria?

There would be several dozen good players available if everyone didn't factor the obscurities of 2020.
 

Da Humph

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Yes very true. However, Ziebell’s weaknesses were apparent in 2019 as well.. Whilst he was moved back into the middle as Scott panicked, his kicking in general leaved a lot to be desired. He isn’t really a consistently viable option in the middle, nor has he done much forward, like we all thought he would. Goes missing and struggles to impact games, Not to mention he is injury prone on top of this.

From what I HAVE seen, I would be a little upset if he was handed an extension early in the season. Really wanna see him back to his best.
 

Egga

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He has all the classical hall marks of a "sleeper" mate.

I'm bullish about him as a future midfielder if his fitness & size can be shaped enough to facilitate his unquestionable poise & football smarts.
Yep. Really interested to see what he does from here.

Would be looking closely at his form next season. Doesn’t warrant an extension based off of this year.
We finished 17th, so I reckon that argument applies to most of the list. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in club culture and JZ and Tarrant are critical to that. Jack still has value to add both on the field and off.
 

Da Humph

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Yep. Really interested to see what he does from here.



We finished 17th, so I reckon that argument applies to most of the list. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in club culture and JZ and Tarrant are critical to that. Jack still has value to add both on the field and off.
Firmly agree. Which is why I really hope he finds form next season.
 

Shinboner1

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I kind of think he would have to have a career-best year and show that he is great at working with the younger players to have a chance of getting another contract. Definitely capable of playing at AFL level but that may not matter given the stage we are at.
The way the team is going I don't see him getting his contract renewed.
Unless he comes out and wins the brownlow he'll get a thankyou video and sent on his way.
Think he's great but no way are we going to be recontracting 30+yr olds unless they are key players eg tarrant and goldy.
 

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Snake_Baker

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Yes very true. However, Ziebell’s weaknesses were apparent in 2019 as well.. Whilst he was moved back into the middle as Scott panicked, his kicking in general leaved a lot to be desired. He isn’t really a consistently viable option in the middle, nor has he done much forward, like we all thought he would. Goes missing and struggles to impact games, Not to mention he is injury prone on top of this.

From what I HAVE seen, I would be a little upset if he was handed an extension early in the season. Really wanna see him back to his best.

Jack is not quick, he's getting a lot of injuries and that ****ing goal kicking just magnified his bad year.

However, if the midfield & half back press are putting on the heat, and Jack stays fit, then his impact in matches ins unquestionable, and we need his physical presence more than ever in a forward line consisting of only Larkey & Comben.

If he has a significant injury interrupted year again, then I could see Jack himself pulling the pin early, otherwise he's required.

There's no doubt he was visibly frustrated last year, and he's not the sort of bloke who kids himself.
 
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HTPunter

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Sure. That's what you reckon.

I don't see any reasonable basis for what you reckon, and that's the actual point.



He gave us something that we need, but I'd like to see the finishing improve. I reckon the injestion of pace and the improvement in the younger players, can only help him be better in 2021.
You don't see any reasonable basis for a 30 year old who has always "had elite attributes" but never actually been consistently good, not being resigned on a list that has just shown it is committing to rebuilding?

Even if you don't agree with the conclusion, you must surely see the reasonable basis. Or you are thick.
 

HTPunter

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If he's on the list in 22 it won't be lucky. It will be because he has had a year in 2021 that convinced the coaching and list management groups that he has more offer. That will be the result of hard work and consistency over 21. He has some genuinely elite attributes.
Over 9 seasons and 124 games he hasn't looked like having the hard work or consistency to show that his speed and acceleration will ever be used to its full potential. I'd be pleasantly shocked if it did now on the other side of 30.

As soon as he has a good couple of games, he gets more work put into him and he falls away. He finished 16th in the B&F for a reason. He was traded for pick 68 for a reason. He barely got more votes than Larkey and Hayden who played 5 and 7 less games respectively. He's 30. This has been a career pattern, not a down year. Also he's no Luke McDonald, who was also maligned but able to have a positional and role change at only 25,Hall has long been played in his best spots.
 
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Caracas

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A big year coming up for Bonar, Campbell, Comben, Hall, Hayden, Garner, Tyson & Josh Walker

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I think Campbell is doing the best he can, Snake. It’s hard to see any improvement from him. You’d have to think his only duties now are to support the young brigade in the VFL and be ready to plug the dyke if Goldy and Xerri get injured at the same time. All the other guys you mention should and need to lift their output - except maybe Josh Walker, who is a more talented Campbell, I think.


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7577969923

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Over 9 seasons and 124 games he hasn't looked like having the hard work or consistency to show that his speed and acceleration will ever be used to its full potential. I'd be pleasantly shocked if it did now on the other side of 30.

As soon as he has a good couple of games, he gets more work put into him and he falls away. He finished 16th in the B&F for a reason. He was traded for pick 68 for a reason. He barely got more votes than Larkey and Hayden who played 5 and 7 less games respectively. He's 30. This has been a career pattern, not a down year. Also he's no Luke McDonald, who was also maligned but able to have a positional and role change at only 25,Hall has long been played in his best spots.
I don't think any of your points are wrong at all. That only reinforces my point that if he is still on our list in 22 it will have nothing to do with luck. It will be because he has had a career-best year and optimised his obvious attributes as well as playing smart. That might prove difficult for him as well given our priorities in 2021. If it comes down to a choice for the last spot in the 22 between Hall and Curtis Taylor (just one example) they will and should pick Taylor every time.
 

Caracas

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He has all the classical hall marks of a "sleeper" mate.

I'm bullish about him as a future midfielder if his fitness & size can be shaped enough to facilitate his unquestionable poise & football smarts.
If he has the wherewithal, he could become a passable imitation of Sam Mitchell.


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7577969923

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The way the team is going I don't see him getting his contract renewed.
Unless he comes out and wins the brownlow he'll get a thankyou video and sent on his way.
Think he's great but no way are we going to be recontracting 30+yr olds unless they are key players eg tarrant and goldy.
I kind of agree. It would be great if he did win a Brownlow as we might get a decent pick for him from a team in the window.

Hall would probably look like a great player in a very good team. He has spent his career playing for teams that were mediocre at best.

Looking at our list I would think Hall, Atley, Tyson, and Garner would all need to do something well above what we have seen from them to get another year.
 

blackshadow

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If he's on the list in 22 it won't be lucky. It will be because he has had a year in 2021 that convinced the coaching and list management groups that he has more offer. That will be the result of hard work and consistency over 21. He has some genuinely elite attributes.
Agreed.

He's got genuine X factor.

He's also had surgery to help with his breathing problems.

If he builds on what he's shown he can do he'll be in royal blue and white for a few years yet.
 

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