List Mgmt. 2021 Trade and List Management thread III. IN: CCJ

[The Filth Wizard]

No campaigner other than North fans even know who our players are, and now I have to read on Facebook from experts how North shouldn't have got rid of Atley/Dumont lol

I'm sure these people are established list managers and footballing experts.

 

[GS WARRIORS]

Do DFA's have to go on the senior list?
Would we have to pick him up in the rookie draft to add him to the rookie list?

They can go on the rookie list.

They don't nominate for the drafts and after the rookie draft you can sign them to the rookie list. We did that with Campbell and could have done that with Walker but chose to put him on the senior list.

 

[The acurate one]

Ignoring any further experienced recruits...

250+ games
Goldy (273)

200+ games
Ziebell (239)
Cunnington (227)

150+ games
None

100+ games
Polec (146)
Hall (144)
Lmac (137)
Walker (123)
Turner (101)
Corr (100)

Would be another AFL list with with a worse bunch of 100-150 game players, that lot collectively are beyond ordinary sheesh.

 

[krakouers]

No campaigner other than North fans even know who our players are, and now I have to read on Facebook from experts how North shouldn't have got rid of Atley/Dumont lol

I'm sure these people are established list managers and footballing experts.

Matt Rendell & Terry Wallace got jobs, so the bar wasn’t really high to start

 

[tazaa]

We’re on a 6 year finals drought.
7 years since our last win. The list needed a shakeup and the last 2 off seasons have been brutal.

Our 1st round drafting is usually pretty good. We stuffed up taking Lachie Hansen in 2006. Lucky to get Goldstein in the end who remains from the 2006 draft.
Ziebell 2008.
Cunnington 2009.
Tarrant was the other from 2007 who just left. All successes.

Then you have the 1st rounders who were underwhelming in Atley who was the 2010.
Garner the 2012. Bread sandwiched in between them. If we had nailed these picks then we might have jagged a flag. But we didn’t.

As a result we then try and get arsey later in the draft and land a diamond but it never works out. Larkey the exclusion.

From 2010-2017 only McDonald, Turner, McKay, Simpkin, Larkey and LDU have been good picks. They were 1st round. Kayne was a rookie pick.
This is why we are in this predicament. We take the gun first up then go searching for gold and end up with s**t.
The drafting as a whole just has been subpar and we’ve never consistently cracked a gem in the latter rounds to fill in the role players.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Matt Rendell & Terry Wallace got jobs, so the bar wasn’t really high to start

I'll cop this.

 

[hammer3]

100%
Reckon we'd be doing the deal with the pies if we hadn't have given 40 for CCJ.
I wonder if the extra points the pies now have negates the reduction of our later picks in falling higher up the draft order?
Might only end up with say 41 and 45 now instead of 2 picks at 39-40.

How would we be trading the same as them and why would we even if we kept pick 40. They gave up a future 3rd and we already have a 2nd.

For someone so talkative with advice about footy as I’ve seen on here, how do you not realise what our picks will do? How can they be falling higher?


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[pupstar]

We’re on a 6 year finals drought.
7 years since our last win. The list needed a shakeup and the last 2 off seasons have been brutal.

Our 1st round drafting is usually pretty good. We stuffed up taking Lachie Hansen in 2006. Lucky to get Goldstein in the end who remains from the 2006 draft.
Ziebell 2008.
Cunnington 2009.
Tarrant was the other from 2007 who just left. All successes.

Then you have the 1st rounders who were underwhelming in Atley who was the 2010.
Garner the 2012. Bread sandwiched in between them. If we had nailed these picks then we might have jagged a flag. But we didn’t.

As a result we then try and get arsey later in the draft and land a diamond but it never works out. Larkey the exclusion.

From 2010-2017 only McDonald, Turner, McKay, Simpkin, Larkey and LDU have been good picks. They were 1st round. Kayne was a rookie pick.
This is why we are in this predicament. We take the gun first up then go searching for gold and end up with sh*t.
The drafting as a whole just has been subpar and we’ve never consistently cracked a gem in the latter rounds to fill in the role players.

Who are the teams that have nailed the draft between 2010- 17 with later picks. Lets say from round 3 on wards. The Doggies have a few but who else. We certainly are not alone in that department with the dogs the only exception if you ask me,

 

[Gippy Roo]

We’re on a 6 year finals drought.
7 years since our last win. The list needed a shakeup and the last 2 off seasons have been brutal.

Our 1st round drafting is usually pretty good. We stuffed up taking Lachie Hansen in 2006. Lucky to get Goldstein in the end who remains from the 2006 draft.
Ziebell 2008.
Cunnington 2009.
Tarrant was the other from 2007 who just left. All successes.

Then you have the 1st rounders who were underwhelming in Atley who was the 2010.
Garner the 2012. Bread sandwiched in between them. If we had nailed these picks then we might have jagged a flag. But we didn’t.

As a result we then try and get arsey later in the draft and land a diamond but it never works out. Larkey the exclusion.

From 2010-2017 only McDonald, Turner, McKay, Simpkin, Larkey and LDU have been good picks. They were 1st round. Kayne was a rookie pick.
This is why we are in this predicament. We take the gun first up then go searching for gold and end up with sh*t.
The drafting as a whole just has been subpar and we’ve never consistently cracked a gem in the latter rounds to fill in the role players.

Souv was a late pick. Pick 73 in the 2016 draft. BBB was also a late pick in his draft. Eddie (Mazda) Ford will be good in time. Our late bargain picks haven’t been all bad Taz.


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[Event Horizon]

So how many DFA or PSD pick ups can we have now, if we are to use 4 ND picks?


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[tazaa]

Who are the teams that have nailed the draft between 2010- 17 with later picks. Lets say from round 3 on wards. The Doggies have a few but who else. We certainly are not alone in that department with the dogs the only exception if you ask me,

We can’t do it from round 2 onwards.
Which is my point. We don’t draft well after we have our 1st pick but then how do we build a side? It takes atleast 30 quality footballers to win a flag and it’s never done with 1st rounders only.

Souv was a late pick. Pick 73 in the 2016 draft. BBB was also a late pick in his draft. Eddie (Mazda) Ford will be good in time. Our late bargain picks haven’t been all bad Taz. View attachment 1263178


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I stated Souv is the exception. We can claim Brown as a good pick but the last time I saw him was with a demons jumper on winning a flag.

 

[ferball]

We’re on a 6 year finals drought.
7 years since our last win. The list needed a shakeup and the last 2 off seasons have been brutal.

Our 1st round drafting is usually pretty good. We stuffed up taking Lachie Hansen in 2006. Lucky to get Goldstein in the end who remains from the 2006 draft.
Ziebell 2008.
Cunnington 2009.
Tarrant was the other from 2007 who just left. All successes.

Then you have the 1st rounders who were underwhelming in Atley who was the 2010.
Garner the 2012. Bread sandwiched in between them. If we had nailed these picks then we might have jagged a flag. But we didn’t.

As a result we then try and get arsey later in the draft and land a diamond but it never works out. Larkey the exclusion.

From 2010-2017 only McDonald, Turner, McKay, Simpkin, Larkey and LDU have been good picks. They were 1st round. Kayne was a rookie pick.
This is why we are in this predicament. We take the gun first up then go searching for gold and end up with sh*t.
The drafting as a whole just has been subpar and we’ve never consistently cracked a gem in the latter rounds to fill in the role players.

Brown was okay Froggy was alright too. Zurhaar

 

[pupstar]

We can’t do it from round 2 onwards.
Which is my point. We don’t draft well after we have our 1st pick but then how do we build a side? It takes atleast 30 quality footballers to win a flag and it’s never done with 1st rounders only.


I stated Souv is the exception. We can claim Brown as a good pick but the last time I saw him was with a demons jumper on winning a flag.

My point was that only 1 club in the period that you are talking about has had a bit of success its not just a North thing.

 

[Jasemon]

Geebus...

FB Williams, Tarrant, Macmillan
HB Pittard, Durdin, Dumont
C Murphy Jacobs Atley
HF Garner Daw, Walker
FF Hosie, Brown, Wood

R Campbell, Higgin , Ahern,

Int Menedue, Crocker, Ham ???

Did I miss anyone? That is a massive turnover.

EVW and Crocker?

 

[JarOfConfidence]

We’re on a 6 year finals drought.
7 years since our last win. The list needed a shakeup and the last 2 off seasons have been brutal.

Our 1st round drafting is usually pretty good. We stuffed up taking Lachie Hansen in 2006. Lucky to get Goldstein in the end who remains from the 2006 draft.
Ziebell 2008.
Cunnington 2009.
Tarrant was the other from 2007 who just left. All successes.

Then you have the 1st rounders who were underwhelming in Atley who was the 2010.
Garner the 2012. Bread sandwiched in between them. If we had nailed these picks then we might have jagged a flag. But we didn’t.

As a result we then try and get arsey later in the draft and land a diamond but it never works out. Larkey the exclusion.

From 2010-2017 only McDonald, Turner, McKay, Simpkin, Larkey and LDU have been good picks. They were 1st round. Kayne was a rookie pick.
This is why we are in this predicament. We take the gun first up then go searching for gold and end up with sh*t.
The drafting as a whole just has been subpar and we’ve never consistently cracked a gem in the latter rounds to fill in the role players.

Yes, Bryce I’m afraid did his (or our) cause no good with his picks through the 2010s, the most egregious of them being that 3-year period when we picked Harper, McKenzie, Durdin, Nielsen, Hibberd and half a dozen other shitmen, almost none of whom could play. Absolutely Diabolical.

 

[DocSholl]

It's the 2nd and 3rd rounders where we have consistently failed, and that's where good recruiting clubs cash in more often than not.

You should always expect to nail your first pick, but if you can also consistently pick up good players in the 20s and 30s then it makes a huge difference.

 

[Psicosis]

It's the 2nd and 3rd rounders where we have consistently failed, and that's where good recruiting clubs cash in more often than not.

You should always expect to nail your first pick, but if you can also consistently pick up good players in the 20s and 30s then it makes a huge difference.

Completely agree DS, our recruiting before Finnegan got more control was horrendous. Nailing first round picks should be the standard. However, from my perspective it’s not been just a draft issue.

If the Scott/Joyce regime had this group of kids, I have serious doubts that they would reach their potential. The club just did not have the off-field “mechanisms” (to use a Noble-ism) in order to allow these kids to thrive IMO.

The investment in off-field over the last 2 off-seasons says it all - assistant coaches, development coaches, medical, S&C, high performance, consultants etc.

These kids have the best chance now to be successful.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

No campaigner other than North fans even know who our players are, and now I have to read on Facebook from experts how North shouldn't have got rid of Atley/Dumont lol

No, you don't have to read Facebook.

And you shouldn't.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

EVW and Crocker?

Dyson.

 

[Event Horizon]

It's interesting that for most of the season there were two camps regarding Dumont: one camp were saying he's an underrated player that we can hopefully retain, while others were saying that if a decent compensation pick could be achieved through him exploring free agency, it would be a better option for the club. It seems nobody really predicted or imagined that it would end like this.

 

[Tas]

It's the 2nd and 3rd rounders where we have consistently failed, and that's where good recruiting clubs cash in more often than not.

You should always expect to nail your first pick, but if you can also consistently pick up good players in the 20s and 30s then it makes a huge difference.

To be fair, we haven't done a whole lot with any rounders. Goldy has been more of a success than most of our 1st rounders.

It is why I have been bitching incessantly about our crap player development, when someone like Black, Bastinac or Harper shows something and we turn them into potatoes it is demoralising.

 

[trooroo4life]

It's the 2nd and 3rd rounders where we have consistently failed, and that's where good recruiting clubs cash in more often than not.

You should always expect to nail your first pick, but if you can also consistently pick up good players in the 20s and 30s then it makes a huge difference.

Daniel Nielson, EVW, Ryan Clarke, Mitch Hibberd, Declan Watson, Josh Williams & Will Walker. That’s 7 consecutive 2nd rounders we absolutely butchered between 2014-2017. You are absolutely bang on, nail even half of those and that’s the core 24-25yo of our team atm.

 

[King Corey]

There's a couple of people who weren't fans of his but the above is why I rated Stibbard above Lewis.

When Lewis took over there was a bit of pointless fapping about him selecting Ziebell (wasn't exactly a creative stretch) but as explained well by tazaa other than having a reasonable strike rate in the 1st round we flamed out badly after that especially with 2nd rounders.

Under Stibbard sure he had a couple of sub-par drafts where the pool was bad or we traded his picks right back for Hawthorn magic beans.

But I think these are reasonable collections bodies of work in his last 2 years:

• Hansen, Thomas, Goldstein, Edwards, Adams
• Tarrant, Greenwood, S.Thompson, Grima

He didn't just take a 100+ gamer in the 1st round (it's on record he was overruled on taking in Selwood in 2006) he was taking another 3+ good players after that.

In the 2009+ period we more often than not collected our 1st round pick for 25+ games then got a smattering of games collectively out of everyone else. It's not enough.

It's insane that from 2012-2017 as pointed out we're left with about 7 blokes who have each cracked past about 25 games. These players should be the core of our side now.

 

[king of the road]

There's a couple of people who weren't fans of his but the above is why I rated Stibbard above Lewis.

When Lewis took over there was a bit of pointless fapping about him selecting Ziebell (wasn't exactly a creative stretch) but as explained well by tazaa other than having a reasonable strike rate in the 1st round we flamed out badly after that especially with 2nd rounders.

Under Stibbard sure he had a couple of sub-par drafts where the pool was bad or we traded his picks right back for Hawthorn magic beans.

But I think these are reasonable collections bodies of work in his last 2 years:

• Hansen, Thomas, Goldstein, Edwards, Adams
• Tarrant, Greenwood, S.Thompson, Grima

He didn't just take a 100+ gamer in the 1st round (it's on record he was overruled on taking in Selwood in 2006) he was taking another 3+ good players after that.

In the 2009+ period we more often than not collected our 1st round pick for 25+ games then got a smattering of games collectively out of everyone else. It's not enough.

It's insane that from 2012-2017 as pointed out we're left with about 7 blokes who have each cracked past about 25 games. These players should be the core of our side now.

But I’ve been given the impression it was all Brad Scott’s fault. This is a real shock.

 

[hoffseason gains]

Completely agree DS, our recruiting before Finnegan got more control was horrendous. Nailing first round picks should be the standard. However, from my perspective it’s not been just a draft issue.

If the Scott/Joyce regime had this group of kids, I have serious doubts that they would reach their potential. The club just did not have the off-field “mechanisms” (to use a Noble-ism) in order to allow these kids to thrive IMO.

The investment in off-field over the last 2 off-seasons says it all - assistant coaches, development coaches, medical, S&C, high performance, consultants etc.

These kids have the best chance now to be successful.

The biggest thing I’ve noticed is that now all our young blokes who were drafted as midfielders actually get centre bounce and wing time even over veterans. If I’m not mistaken, guys like Atley, McDonald, McKenzie, Garner all were first round picks and all projected to move up the ground into the midfield at some stage, but never made the transition because they just played pure half back flank or in garner’s case pure forward. McDonald has been moved onto a wing but in a defensive role, a far cry from what we thought he’d be doing, despite his great BnF season the year before. We see when players don’t have the time to develop in the middle, they will rarely ever become midfielders.

But this year, Phillips, Powell, Thomas, LDU, Mahony, CT, Scott, all got more time in the mid than they ever had before. I know people complained that Phillips originally was playing forward but the fact he was getting any centre bounces at all is a change from the past regime, who I’m sure would’ve played him as a pressure forward for 6 years.