List Mgmt. 2021 Trade, FA and Draft Chat

[Cameron_Jezza]

Means we have 6 spots for them.

Congrats on the flag. I would suggest trading your 2022r2 for richmond pick 40,44 to get the picks to help fill your 6 lost spots.

 

[markm106]

Role players were integral in tigers 3 flags. For instance Castagna ended up not getting a game last year when they dropped away. But was very important when they were up and running.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

It’s like how there’s some consensus that Spargo and ANB are miraculously improved players this year, even though they played at more or less the same level (relative to their experience at the time compared with now) in 2018. But everyone loves a whipping boy, even though the top few players for each side set a ceiling for how good the role players can be.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

That being said Atley plays as a HB. His performance hasn’t wavered too much throughout his career - has produced an acceptable output no matter how well or poorly the side has gone.

 

[Sellout Scully]

Atley and David Mackay

14

David Mackay

Age

35

Ht

181cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

315.4

4star

D

16.5

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.0

3star

MG

265.5

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.2

3star

are a bit different.

Atley was a reasonable and well-liked role player who I think many expected to kick on to the next level but he never really did.

Mackay was a permanent whipping boy at Adelaide for years and was seen as having a limited ceiling. Many Crows fans always wanted him to be dropped but he always kept getting picked.

Fun fact: Mackay's only Brownlow vote in his career was against us.

 

[Topkent]

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera for the draft please.

 

[Bluelegs]

Champ

 

[schmuttt]

Oh dear

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera for the draft please.

His highlight package gave me major Jack Watts flashbacks.

 

[adonski]

Melbourne don't draft kids that are on the softer side, surely we realise this by now

 

[Lampers]

His highlight package gave me major Jack Watts flashbacks.

The irony is now, I think the team could accomodate a Watts skilled player, but only out on the wing so limited spots.

Watts couldn’t handle body contact well, but Langdon doesn’t need to either.

 

[mrmonkey]

Role players were integral in tigers 3 flags. For instance Castagna ended up not getting a game last year when they dropped away. But was very important when they were up and running.

With three flags there's no doubt that 2017-2020 Richmond team will be amongst the best, yet at the same time talent wise they're no where near as good as hawthorn and Geelong in their dominant periods. Just shows you if you have a good system, good things can happen.

 

[adonski]

With three flags there's no doubt that 2017-2020 Richmond team will be amongst the best, yet at the same time talent wise they're no where near as good as hawthorn and Geelong in their dominant periods. Just shows you if you have a good system, good things can happen.

Expansion clubs thinning the talent pool these days

 

[danster168]

The irony is now, I think the team could accomodate a Watts skilled player, but only out on the wing so limited spots.

Watts couldn’t handle body contact well, but Langdon doesn’t need to either.

Watts was never an afl standard player. He survived about 3 list cuts due to Melbourne having so many new coaches that wanted to see if they could get something out of him. He was soft and played slow. And seems like a douche off the field.

 

[pjfairbairn]

Watts was never an afl standard player. He survived about 3 list cuts due to Melbourne having so many new coaches that wanted to see if they could get something out of him. He was soft and played slow. And seems like a douche off the field.

That's revisionist history. He might not have been a No 1 draft pick calibre player, but he played plenty of very good games at AFL level. His teammates also seemed to really like him.

 

[markm106]

For me there’s two issues when it comes to Jack Watts. Did he work hard enough? I don’t know he had the drive to really push himself to be the best he could. And then there’s our development at the time. As a whole our development was poor. There’s also the question of whether we should have let him play more school footy in year one.
He did play some good footy throughout his career but never reached the heights we’d expect from a number one pick.

 

[schmuttt]

Watts was never an afl standard player. He survived about 3 list cuts due to Melbourne having so many new coaches that wanted to see if they could get something out of him. He was soft and played slow. And seems like a douche off the field.

You don't play 150 games without being AFL standard. Watts was a very flawed player and a wasted talent but he was still good enough to play that often.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Watts was never an afl standard player. He survived about 3 list cuts due to Melbourne having so many new coaches that wanted to see if they could get something out of him. He was soft and played slow. And seems like a douche off the field.

This is a crazy statement. Watts might not have gotten close to living up to #1 pick, but he was an AFL standard player. Had great skills, just didn't apply himself anywhere near enough and most definitely came to Melbourne at a time when we lacked any decent leaders and had easily the worst development department in the AFL. If you said his application and effort at times weren't AFL standard, then I'd agree with you. Was more interested in the nose beers and boobies by the sound of it.

Also I'm not sure where the douchebag off field comes from either! I've met him a number of times and he's always been extremely respectful and a lovely guy. I met him out on the town one night not long after the B&F where I'd had a long conversation with him, and when I saw him out he remembered my name and came over and said hi to me and my group. Besides being a bit of a lad, never heard a bad word about him off field tbh. Always came over to say hi to my kids when we went and saw them at practice. Always had a lot of time for Jack..

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

If Jack had put in even a little bit more effort than he did he could have been a star, the margin was so fine with him. What a colossal waste. Extremely friendly bloke though, that’s beyond doubt.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

It’s ****ed how much criticism he got for his football as early as 2009-2012, when he was still 21 and under. I don’t know if it was unprecedented at the time but there’s certainly been a league wide shift away from that kind of hostility towards young players since, especially KPPs.

 

[The Dr]

It’s f’ed how much criticism he got for his football as early as 2009-2012, when he was still 21 and under. I don’t know if it was unprecedented at the time but there’s certainly been a league wide shift away from that kind of hostility towards young players since, especially KPPs.

Completely agree. He copped 10x more criticism than most high draft picks that underperformed for some reason. And handles it pretty well, at least from the outside.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Completely agree. He copped 10x more criticism than most high draft picks that underperformed for some reason. And handles it pretty well, at least from the outside.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Even in this first few years of his career I thought it was a bit weird how players like Jarryd Grant or Mitch Thorp seemed to fly totally under the radar compared to JW. Even Scott Gumbleton who went at pick 2, though he had a pretty tough run with injuries. A lot of it was probably to do with the way Watts played - looked very laconic on field which was partly to do with not being that hard at the ball but also in part just due to being super skilled and being used to not having to do much to dominate. Even when he did start playing somewhat to potential in 2016/17 he still looked just as laconic IMO but was taking marks and kicking goals.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

It’s crazy that he would have been the second oldest player in our GF team, and he’s still only 30. Hard to see him as more mature than May, BBB and Max - or even Viney and Lever.

 

[Lampers]

If Jack had put in even a little bit more effort than he did he could have been a star, the margin was so fine with him. What a colossal waste. Extremely friendly bloke though, that’s beyond doubt.

I’m not sure Watts ever had that true fight, that campaigner, that aggression, that desire for physical contact.

Those things are either there, or they’re not.

Need Viney’s attitude, with Watts’ vision and skills, in Sam Frost’s body - I’m sure Taylor will pick one of those up with a selection in the 40s.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I’m not sure Watts ever had that true fight, that campaigner, that aggression, that desire for physical contact.

Those things are either there, or they’re not.

Need Viney’s attitude, with Watts’ vision and skills, in Sam Frost’s body - I’m sure Taylor will pick one of those up with a selection in the 40s.

Maybe not but even without it you can be a very good footballer IMO. His best showed that. Just didn’t stay involved in games enough or went missing from week to week, which I guess is more likely if you play for a dysfunctional team.

It’s a bit chicken and egg I guess - if he’d been playing for a team like ours this year I’m confident he’d have been very handy regardless of how hard he is, but we were never going to reach that stage with him there. Only thing that matters at the end of the day is that he never was a star, and Gawn went through the same environment Jack did to turn out his best

 

[Lampers]

Maybe not but even without it you can be a very good footballer IMO. His best showed that. Just didn’t stay involved in games enough or went missing from week to week, which I guess is more likely if you play for a dysfunctional team.

It’s a bit chicken and egg I guess - if he’d been playing for a team like ours this year I’m confident he’d have been very handy regardless of how hard he is, but we were never going to reach that stage with him there. Only thing that matters at the end of the day is that he never was a star, and Gawn went through the same environment Jack did to turn out his best

I agree with that, but you can’t carry too many inherently soft players in a team. They also have to be exceptional at other things, which Watts was.

I also think there was too much emphasis on what Watts wasn’t
Rather than what he could do exceptionally well, and trying to make him what he wasn’t naturally setup for.

If he’d been allowed to be a very good third forward, or backline distributor, or wingman, then he would’ve been fine.

But fans and it appeared coaches too didn’t want to have a number 1 pick be that sort of player. Cut off your nose to spite your face stuff. The number one pick status was such a burden.

Lukosius at Gold Coast is somewhat reminiscent of Watts. Key position height, great skills, not that physical, but they don’t seem to be trying to make him into something he doesn’t have the tools for.