List Mgmt. 2021 Trade & List Management Thread I

Remove this Banner Ad

DuckYeah

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2010
5,534
6,241
Moist island
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I think it is a bit of a fantasy TBH.

I hope we offer him a bunch of cash, to set a market value at pretty high.

I doubt we'd have the trade currency to do it. or at least be willing to part with the trade currency to do it.

And PSD is nonsense because the reality of us doing that would be less than 1% chance.
We need to sign buckets first fu**in
 

Log in to remove this ad.

archereleven

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 7, 2013
10,776
15,930
Cairns
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Atlanta Falcons
I think it is a bit of a fantasy TBH.

I hope we offer him a bunch of cash, to set a market value at pretty high.

I doubt we'd have the trade currency to do it. or at least be willing to part with the trade currency to do it.

And PSD is nonsense because the reality of us doing that would be less than 1% chance.
Yeah, it's most likely a pipe dream but if he did want to come we would pay him and Carlton would accept very good compensation.

KPFs coming into their prime don't grow on trees, we would be ******* stupid to not work out a suitable trade if he wanted in.



On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
36,233
33,532
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
He'll attract unreasonable offers.

So in all likelihood you'll need to be ball park of an unreasonable offer to counter. Less sure, but ball park.
No, we just let him walk. We don't have to counter a crazy offer with one of our own. If someone out there wants to offer him 1 million+ on a long term deal, and he accepts that deal, so be it. Despite his current standing in the Coleman, he's not worth that kind of money at present, and we shouldn't be paying it.

And if if does walk on a 1 million dollar contract, we'll get a 1st rounder for him at a bare minimum, and it opens the door for a play at a F/A by freeing up a ton of cap space.
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
36,233
33,532
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
You’re not in trouble right now, but I think you will be unless some of your key players sign for unders.

In the next 6 months you need to sign Cripps, McKay and in 18 months Walsh.
In the space of those 2 years, we also lose Betts, Murphy and Casboult, and Williams and Martins frontloaded deals enter the back end of those contracts, and these are the 2 years be banked up salary cap space to sit at 105 percent of the cap.

Weitering is already signed up long term, and you can bet your bottom dollar we forecast a million or so each year for Cripps in future budgeting. We can also put aside some of the money we had earmarked for C Curnow into McKays contract, and McGoverns next deal wont be anything special either.

I think we'll be just fine salary cap wise. Im not seeing us with some kind of Star studded line-up that would put the kind of pressure on our cap that some in here are suggesting.
 

Tas

Premium Platinum
Dec 23, 2002
55,490
42,947
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
No, we just let him walk. We don't have to counter a crazy offer with one of our own. If someone out there wants to offer him 1 million+ on a long term deal, and he accepts that deal, so be it. Despite his current standing in the Coleman, he's not worth that kind of money at present, and we shouldn't be paying it.

And if if does walk on a 1 million dollar contract, we'll get a 1st rounder for him at a bare minimum, and it opens the door for a play at a F/A by freeing up a ton of cap space.
It is crazy talk for someone who hasn't kicked more than 26 goals in a season. We dodged massive bullets after throwing terrible contracts at DeGoey and Kelly who's form nosedived post contract offer.

I think it is fine to pay a premium, i am okay with what we paid Corr given we are so far under the cap if we don't give someone anything we are going to lose part of the benefit of previously bringing contracts forward.

But people can go crazy with just unrealistic contracts, we pretty much sunk a torpedo into GWS and Collingwood with those horrific contracts that forced their clubs to pay a lot more than they wanted to, GWS is staring down the barrel of Kelly activating a trigger for another 6 years at $1m a year, they are never going to contend paying that kind of money to a guy who isn't Martin-like in terms of winning games consistency off his own boot.

You can't roll the dice with list management and hope you pick the right horse with a ludicrous offer, that isn't a list management strategy, that is blind gambling.
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
36,233
33,532
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
It is crazy talk for someone who hasn't kicked more than 26 goals in a season.
He's good, but there are question marks. He doest crash packs or run through the loose defender as much as he should, and his kicking is a little suspect (despite being a left footer, he insists on round the corner snaps, even when on his preferred and 25 meters out). He's getting his goals mainly on account of his height, and defenders shitting themselves and holding his jumper or infringing.

Dont get me wrong, I think he's growing into a solid 60 or so goal a year KPF (and should be thereabouts this year), which is where I price him at around 750k or so. Certainly if he bags a Coleman or two and AA honors over this season or the next two leading up to his F/A contract, he'll command around a million or so a season as a F/A.

Talk of 1.2 or 1.3 million is crazy (thats Martin or Bont money), and I'd be happy to let him walk for that money, which could be better spent on a F/A (and take the 1st round pick on offer).
 

DuckYeah

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2010
5,534
6,241
Moist island
AFL Club
North Melbourne
No, we just let him walk. We don't have to counter a crazy offer with one of our own. If someone out there wants to offer him 1 million+ on a long term deal, and he accepts that deal, so be it. Despite his current standing in the Coleman, he's not worth that kind of money at present, and we shouldn't be paying it.

And if if does walk on a 1 million dollar contract, we'll get a 1st rounder for him at a bare minimum, and it opens the door for a play at a F/A by freeing up a ton of cap space.
Not if he wants the $$$$ thumbs his nose at yas and walks to the PSD.. i mean, your mob did it to gold coast.. what goes round comes around
 

Le Grille

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2005
13,358
22,770
Perth
AFL Club
North Melbourne
He's on track for the Coleman at present, and as a 23 year old KPF, that's a reasonable offer for 2 years. If he's up there in the Coleman calculations over the next 2 years, then when his F/A window opens in 2023, he can expect a lot more than 750k when he hits F/A.
The poster might be saying that’s significantly under, compared to what might be on offer elsewhere


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
36,233
33,532
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Not if he wants the $$$$ thumbs his nose at yas and walks to the PSD.. i mean, your mob did it to gold coast.. what goes round comes around
No we didn't do anything of the sort.

Carlton offered Gold Coast two future picks — one second-rounder and one third-rounder — for Martin, but the Suns turned that down. The Blues also knocked back Gold Coast’s offer of Martin and Pick 15 for Pick 9.
AFL trade news 2019: Jack Martin Carlton trade, how Gold Coast Suns and Blues strike deal before AFL pre season draft (foxsports.com.au)

We offered a future 2nd plus a third rounder for Martin, and they told us to GAGF, preferring a pick swap. I think a future second and a third are a fair price for an uncontracted player valued at 650k when we hold PSD pick 1.

It's not like we 'walked him to the PSD' or didnt make a reasonable offer based on the contract terms and the players proven ability.

If someone wants to come along and make a 1.2 million dollar offer for Harry, then I'd be furious if we matched it (he's not worth that kind of money) and we would expect a 1st round pick in exchange (which is a fair price for someone valued at 1.2 million bucks, even uncontracted and notwithstanding the PSD).

Its on par with our offer to the Suns for Martin (who we valued at half that price by way of contract terms, and wasnt exactly setting the world on fire at the Suns).
 

Le Grille

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2005
13,358
22,770
Perth
AFL Club
North Melbourne
No we didn't do anything of the sort.



AFL trade news 2019: Jack Martin Carlton trade, how Gold Coast Suns and Blues strike deal before AFL pre season draft (foxsports.com.au)

We offered a future 2nd plus a third rounder for Martin, and they told us to GAGF, preferring a pick swap. I think a future second and a third are a fair price for an uncontracted player valued at 650k when we hold PSD pick 1.

It's not like we 'walked him to the PSD' or didnt make a reasonable offer based on the contract terms and the players proven ability.

If someone wants to come along and make a 1.2 million dollar offer for Harry, then I'd be furious if we matched it (he's not worth that kind of money) and we would expect a 1st round pick in exchange (which is a fair price for someone valued at 1.2 million bucks, even uncontracted and notwithstanding the PSD).

Its on par with our offer to the Suns for Martin (who we valued at half that price by way of contract terms, and wasnt exactly setting the world on fire at the Suns).
The suns clearly valued him higher though, so it a distinct possibility any club who threw that kind of cash to Harry might play hardball at the trade table. I think personally there would be a trade but I wouldn’t rule out a PSD situation, I could imagine someone like dorodo doing it (if the dons were in a position to do so)


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

shinboner magic

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 17, 2007
14,651
18,000
melb home of the kangas
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
hellas,liverpool,storm,au
No we didn't do anything of the sort.



AFL trade news 2019: Jack Martin Carlton trade, how Gold Coast Suns and Blues strike deal before AFL pre season draft (foxsports.com.au)

We offered a future 2nd plus a third rounder for Martin, and they told us to GAGF, preferring a pick swap. I think a future second and a third are a fair price for an uncontracted player valued at 650k when we hold PSD pick 1.

It's not like we 'walked him to the PSD' or didnt make a reasonable offer based on the contract terms and the players proven ability.

If someone wants to come along and make a 1.2 million dollar offer for Harry, then I'd be furious if we matched it (he's not worth that kind of money) and we would expect a 1st round pick in exchange (which is a fair price for someone valued at 1.2 million bucks, even uncontracted and notwithstanding the PSD).

Its on par with our offer to the Suns for Martin (who we valued at half that price by way of contract terms, and wasnt exactly setting the world on fire at the Suns).
Ok 2nd rounder plus Liam Anthony or PSD baby 😍😍😍
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
36,233
33,532
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
The suns clearly valued him higher though, so it a distinct possibility any club who threw that kind of cash to Harry might play hardball at the trade table.
Ok 2nd rounder plus Liam Anthony or PSD baby 😍😍😍

If Harry was contracted, I think we can all agree he'd be worth 2 x 1sts (ballpark). Uncontracted, at a million per season (or more), and with the PSD in play, its a single 1st.

We offered a 2nd and a 3rd for Martin on 650k. A 1st for McKay on a million is in the same ballpark. It's unders, but in context its fair.
 

Le Grille

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2005
13,358
22,770
Perth
AFL Club
North Melbourne
If Harry was contracted, I think we can all agree he'd be worth 2 x 1sts (ballpark). Uncontracted, at a million per season (or more), and with the PSD in play, its a single 1st.

We offered a 2nd and a 3rd for Martin on 650k. A 1st for McKay is in the same ballpark. It's unders, but in context its fair.
I am just saying it makes no difference what you or I think is fair ( I’d say a first is fair) but there is a mechanism there which could lead to a nuclear option being taken if the team wanting Harry were unwilling to trade that much. That’s the point of these discussions.

Not casting doubt on your account of events but I’m sure the suns would have wanted more than a second and third for Martin


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 

archereleven

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 7, 2013
10,776
15,930
Cairns
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Atlanta Falcons
He's good, but there are question marks. He doest crash packs or run through the loose defender as much as he should, and his kicking is a little suspect (despite being a left footer, he insists on round the corner snaps, even when on his preferred and 25 meters out). He's getting his goals mainly on account of his height, and defenders shitting themselves and holding his jumper or infringing.

Dont get me wrong, I think he's growing into a solid 60 or so goal a year KPF (and should be thereabouts this year), which is where I price him at around 750k or so. Certainly if he bags a Coleman or two and AA honors over this season or the next two leading up to his F/A contract, he'll command around a million or so a season as a F/A.

Talk of 1.2 or 1.3 million is crazy (thats Martin or Bont money), and I'd be happy to let him walk for that money, which could be better spent on a F/A (and take the 1st round pick on offer).
I think your underselling Harry a bit here but opinions are like....

A solid 60 goal forward? He is on track to kick 60 by round 16 this season. If he was a better kick, it would be more like round 13-14.

Elite - Goals(3.7), behinds(2.7), shots at goal(6.6), score involvements(7.7) and marks inside 50(4.4).

He's 23 and is going to blow up. He will get paid imo.


On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

DuckYeah

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2010
5,534
6,241
Moist island
AFL Club
North Melbourne
No we didn't do anything of the sort.



AFL trade news 2019: Jack Martin Carlton trade, how Gold Coast Suns and Blues strike deal before AFL pre season draft (foxsports.com.au)

We offered a future 2nd plus a third rounder for Martin, and they told us to GAGF, preferring a pick swap. I think a future second and a third are a fair price for an uncontracted player valued at 650k when we hold PSD pick 1.

It's not like we 'walked him to the PSD' or didnt make a reasonable offer based on the contract terms and the players proven ability.

If someone wants to come along and make a 1.2 million dollar offer for Harry, then I'd be furious if we matched it (he's not worth that kind of money) and we would expect a 1st round pick in exchange (which is a fair price for someone valued at 1.2 million bucks, even uncontracted and notwithstanding the PSD).

Its on par with our offer to the Suns for Martin (who we valued at half that price by way of contract terms, and wasnt exactly setting the world on fire at the Suns).
😂 yeh, we’ll offer you a third rounder, you tell us to GAGF and walk him to the PSD... same sh*t mate. Not that I think he will be at NMFC.. im making a point that if ya a campaigner expect campaigner acts...

Edit: hahaha how funny would it be to see Carlton tank to us in round 18 to lift us off the bottom of the ladder to remove a pick one in the PSD hahahahahahahaha
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
36,233
33,532
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Not casting doubt on your account of events but I’m sure the suns would have wanted more than a second and third for Martin
They did want more. They wanted our 1st rounder in exchange for Martin and 15. We held firm on our offer of a 2nd (and a third) based on the contract on offer (650k), Martins exposed form, and the PSD risk they faced.

A 2nd and a 3rd weren't exactly crazy unders for an uncontracted Jack Martin. It seems reasonably fair all things considered. The Suns could easily have used those two picks to pay for Academy players, or bundled them together for a pick upgrade back into the 1st round.

Its certainly not the case that we intentionally walked Martin to the PSD by presenting some kind of troll offer, and screwed GCS over.

If some Bizzaro land situation occurs and Harry walks on some kind of crazy godfather offer of a million plus over 7 years, it would (clearly) be a 1st rounder in exchange (and that would be well unders).
 

R00StaR

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 3, 2003
5,573
3,154
Asgard
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Kangaroos
If Harry was contracted, I think we can all agree he'd be worth 2 x 1sts (ballpark). Uncontracted, at a million per season (or more), and with the PSD in play, its a single 1st.

We offered a 2nd and a 3rd for Martin on 650k. A 1st for McKay on a million is in the same ballpark. It's unders, but in context its fair.
But you said he's worth $750k, only 100k more than Martin. One could assume based on that 2 x 2nd rounders would be fair or PSD.
 

Malifice

Moderator
Oct 2, 2007
36,233
33,532
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
😂 yeh, we’ll offer you a third rounder, you tell us to GAGF and walk him to the PSD... same sh*t mate. Not that I think he will be at NMFC.. im making a point that if ya a campaigner expect campaigner acts
How were we being campaigners? We offered a second and a third round pick for Martin, who hadn't exactly set the world on fire. That's close to his (contracted) value of a late 1st (ballpark).

Not seeing how our offer of (2nd+3rd for Martin) is 'the same sh*t as' (a 3rd rounder or GAGF for McKay).

Obviously if he leaves on some kind of insane deal, we'd have to take unders due to the contract situation, but a future 1st (for example) is unders.
 

Remove this Banner Ad