List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

 
Oct 2, 2010
19,480
69,917
AFL Club
St Kilda
I have more then stuck up for him and expressed where he excels and is most valuable - just check my posting last week.

fact is, that we aren’t getting a positive output.
Fact is that the money he is on and the all park he wants is overpaying for this level of out put.

Funny story. Billings is my favourite player. My little picture, hasn’t changed since the day I put it there. I’m telling you that he is fools gold. That when the whips are cracking, he isn’t consistently standing up. He isn’t reliable.

you call it imaginary. I’m telling you that what I’ve heard. What’s been reported by Tom Morris and if you don’t want to believe us - there have been other posters on here sharing the same whispers.

we are significantly apart on figures with Billings and have been more some time. If someone met this figure, we get a first rounder.
The only journalist to report anything about figures or compensation with regards to Billings was Twomey last week who said rival offers would value him in band 3, the same as Crouch.
 
I have more then stuck up for him and expressed where he excels and is most valuable - just check my posting last week.

fact is, that we aren’t getting a positive output.
Fact is that the money he is on and the all park he wants is overpaying for this level of out put.

Funny story. Billings is my favourite player. My little picture, hasn’t changed since the day I put it there. I’m telling you that he is fools gold. That when the whips are cracking, he isn’t consistently standing up. He isn’t reliable.

you call it imaginary. I’m telling you that what I’ve heard. What’s been reported by Tom Morris and if you don’t want to believe us - there have been other posters on here sharing the same whispers.

we are significantly apart on figures with Billings and have been more some time. If someone met this figure, we get a first rounder.


He's just paid too much in reality. He's a GOP, should be paid as our 10th best player then there is no issue. It will have been one of the worst drafting periods of all time if he ends up getting us a second round pick. Pretty much ****ed up every high pick we touched post Brendan Goddard right up until possibly King and Clark and they haven't got there yet even if they are very likely to. Ironically even ****ed up the compensation for him as well.

Libba had better not screw up the compo pick if he goes.
 

bergholt

Good Ordinary Player
Mar 14, 2007
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Playing injured and copped a knee to the head which left him on the ground.

I understand people are judging him against the bont but billings is a very good player and likely to be more valuable as we improve. If he gets a band one offer great otherwise pay up and keep him, talk of accepting a second for billings is just whack imo.

A pick in the twenties or overpaying for someone else, hell you won’t get dunstan for $400 thousand.

I'm not comparing him to Bont, that ship sailed in their first year, I'm just comparing him to as a player in the easiest position on the ground. Lots of guys can go through that high half-forward role and contribute. Billings for $400k is fine, but he's about to turn 26, needs a big contract next time out. I don't think we should give it to him, he's just not that good.
 
It keeps being said.
If we lose Billings as a free agent and get Kelly as a free agent, we miss out on the compensation pick.

Yep. Which is why, if Billings is only going to get us Band 2, I would be ok with making the crazy $$ offer to Kelly.

If we are going to get Band 1, then I'd rather keep the pick and use the cash elsewhere.
 

puppy_dog7

Premiership Player
Jul 29, 2007
4,344
10,931
AFL Club
St Kilda
He's just paid too much in reality. He's a GOP, should be paid as our 10th best player then there is no issue. It will have been one of the worst drafting periods of all time if he ends up getting us a second round pick. Pretty much f’ed up every high pick we touched post Brendan Goddard right up until possibly King and Clark and they haven't got there yet even if they are very likely to. Ironically even f’ed up the compensation for him as well.

Libba had better not screw up the compo pick if he goes.
Completely agree. If we overpay on a contract to keep JB then what message does that send to the rest of the group?
To me it says that you don’t have to be consistent or a high ouput player and still get more money than 90% of the list. Especially since we already looked after him in his previous contract. He needs to start repaying the faith we’ve put in him before he commands a good deal.
 

Yawkey way

Norm Smith Medallist
May 8, 2017
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He's had a few well publicised mental health issues which probably haven't helped him to meet full potential as well. I've been watching him since he was drafted and never seen him make any impact as a KP so far. He might just never make it unfortunately.
Yes there’s a good chance of that but if I needed a full forward like collingwood do I’d roll the dice at the right price.
 

Yawkey way

Norm Smith Medallist
May 8, 2017
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I'm not comparing him to Bont, that ship sailed in their first year, I'm just comparing him to as a player in the easiest position on the ground. Lots of guys can go through that high half-forward role and contribute. Billings for $400k is fine, but he's about to turn 26, needs a big contract next time out. I don't think we should give it to him, he's just not that good.
He’s not a high half forward though, that may be his best position but we’ve used him on the wing and his numbers have been good.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The only journalist to report anything about figures or compensation with regards to Billings was Twomey last week who said rival offers would value him in band 3, the same as Crouch.
Okay… so let’s assume Twomey is right. 600k is what we reportedly offered Crouch which triggered Band 3. “Compo pick after our second rounder.”

so let’s use 600k as the contract offer. Are you okay Paying Billings 600k - which probably still has him in our top 10 highest paid players for the level of output and inconsistency he offers? You don’t even need to use this year to base his form off as an example, As He did the same thing last year in the second half of the year. So it isn’t a once off.

alternative is that we take whoever offers him a deal to the table and push for first round pick and bank the 500k difference and go after someone next off season along with Bing?
 
Matt Hammelmann from Aspley another one to look at for a later pick in the draft.

25 yr old 198cm forward, 2 time NEAFL Leading goal kicker, and currently averaging 4.3 goals a game in the VFL this season, leading the goal kicking easily.

He looked a bit of a galumph when we played them. He was pretty agricultural. I rate Hudson Garoni too but hasn't seemed to have a great season. Bailey Fritsch has a younger brother playing suburban footy who kicked 20 goals in a game recently would be a good rookie option.


Marcus Lentini is the one you'd list for a back up midfield option.Very surprised wasn't picked up in the midseason draft. I think he was runner up in the Round-Fothergill award a couple of years ago and leads the VFL in disposals and handballs. He seems to have been around for ages but still only 22 or something.
 
Oct 2, 2010
19,480
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AFL Club
St Kilda
Okay… so let’s assume Twomey is right. 600k is what we reportedly offered Crouch which triggered Band 3. “Compo pick after our second rounder.”

so let’s use 600k as the contract offer. Are you okay Paying Billings 600k - which probably still has him in our top 10 highest paid players for the level of output and inconsistency he offers? You don’t even need to use this year to base his form off as an example, As He did the same thing last year in the second half of the year. So it isn’t a once off.

alternative is that we take whoever offers him a deal to the table and push for first round pick and bank the 500k difference and go after someone next off season along with Bing?
Yes. I'd rather we just keep a good player in Billings then hold out for a compensation pick we are extremely unlikely to get.
 

Saintsydney

Senior List
Nov 29, 2014
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I don’t agree with murphy at all, I watched this kid at u/18s and he was the most likely imo to succeed at full forward in front of paddy and Boyd.

He was very good on the lead, had strong hands and an accurate uncomplicated kicking action. Imo he was a pretty safe bet but again as a guy who gave you a contest and kicked his two or three a game not as the next plugger. Now they have a full stable of key forwards their trying to reinvent him.

He has managed to get some games at the bulldogs so he’s doing something right but not a player I’d be looking at, maybe a good fit at the pies.
If their giving him away ( there must be good reason, but...) I would money ball him as potential KPB - like Jones to Carlton - take the risk
 
Okay… so let’s assume Twomey is right. 600k is what we reportedly offered Crouch which triggered Band 3. “Compo pick after our second rounder.”

so let’s use 600k as the contract offer. Are you okay Paying Billings 600k - which probably still has him in our top 10 highest paid players for the level of output and inconsistency he offers? You don’t even need to use this year to base his form off as an example, As He did the same thing last year in the second half of the year. So it isn’t a once off.

alternative is that we take whoever offers him a deal to the table and push for first round pick and bank the 500k difference and go after someone next off season along with Bing?

OK, explain how you "push" for band 1 compo.

If he gets a decent length contract and is paid amongst the highest earners in the AFL , we get band 1.
There is no push.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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OK, explain how you "push" for band 1 compo.

If he gets a decent length contract and is paid amongst the highest earners in the AFL , we get band 1.
There is no push.
The push is if we don’t get band 1. We take the club who he agrees a deal with to the table and ask for a first.

Christ, I would eVen be interested in a trade.
 

Premium

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2016
11,515
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Billings has been underwhelming , but we should pay him what he is worth whatever that is and if he doesn't want it let him go no big deal.
When we drafted him he was hyped and he has been as I said underwhelming but he is not the only high draft pick that has been average.
The thing is do you let a player who has never really had any injury problems walk out of the club at his prime , I would back Ratten in to make the right decision.
People also have to get over our drafting selections , every club hit and miss and after the McCartin trade we basically have not really picked a to many players that have been up to scratch which really is lucky and I'm talking about our late draft picks as well.

The club has changed totally since 2018 when Lethlean became General Manager , from this point when he came into the club , the team basically had hardly any talent.

You only have to look at the players that have been moved on and really when you see the players you can see why Richardson had no chance.

Draft
2018


- Max King (pick 4) He took a gamble and picked a injured Max King when he knew he wouldn't even play his first season most likely due to a ACL injury and now at 21 is looking like he might become a once in a generation player.

- Jack Bytel (pick 41) Another player teams stayed well clear of knowing he had to have a back operation and may never get back to the player he was as a junior / we took the gamble again knowing we had to go after talent and after his back operation looks to be on the right track however he has been hampered by the lack of game time because the VFL has devastated by Covid.

- Parker (pick 47) Hind (54) Young (67)

- Wilkie (rookie pick 3)

Our later picks were a stab in the dark because we had to fill the void of all the crabs we moved on and I would say they were all better than any of the guys we moved on.

Ray Connellan (del)
Nathan Freeman (del)
Sam Gilbert (del)
Hugh Goddard (del)
Tom Hickey (trd)
Darren Minchington (DFA)
Koby Stevens (ret)
Maverick Weller (PSS)
Nathan Wright (del)

Draft
2019

Ryan Byrnes (pick 52)
We only had 2 draft picks due to we attempted to get some experienced talent into the squad.
Leo Connolly (pick 64)


David Armitage - delisted
Billy Longer - delisted
Lewis Pierce - delisted
Sam Rowe - delisted

So as you you can see after 2 years Lethlean has moved on 13 players who were lucky to be even on a AFL list and then attempted to make the best of meager draft hand we had.

GOT Picks 12 and 18 - GAVE AWAY Picks 6 and 69

GOT Paddy Ryder, Dougal Howard, Pick 10 and a future fourth-round pick - GAVE AWAY Picks 12, 18 and a future third-round pick

GOT Pick 58 - GAVE AWAY Jack Steven


GOT Brad Hill and a future third-round pick - GAVE AWAY Blake Acres, Picks 10 and 58, a future second-round pick and a future fourth-round pick

GOT Picks 32 and 51 - GAVE AWAY Josh Bruce

GOT Zak Jones, Pick 56 and a future fourth-round pick - GAVE AWAY Picks 32 and 76 and a future third-round pick

GOT Dan Butler - GAVE AWAY Pick 56

So after 2 years at the club he has cleared more than half of the players in the squad and reloaded with more talent and amazing we even played finals that 2020.


Draft
2020

Mathew Allison
(pick26)
Tom Highmore
(pick 45)
midyear draft Max Heath (pick 7)
midyear draft Cooper Sharman (pick20)

GOT Brad Crouch from Adelaide as a restricted free agent

GOT Shaun McKernan from Essendon as an unrestricted free agent

GOT Jack Higgins, Pick 21 and a future fourth-round pick – GAVE AWAY St Kilda’s Pick 17 and future second-round pick


GOT Picks 67 and 74 from Essendon — GAVE AWAY Nick Hind and Pick 77


So In 3 years Lethlean has completely changed our squad and this year he will just about cleaned out the whole team with the removal of Geary will basically see in a new generation of players and a list loaded with talent that has massive scope.

I fully expect the club will move on the last of the players who are fill ins our injury prone - Frawley , Geary , McKernan , Hunter , Carlisle , Alabakis and re stock with young talent in the draft - making us one of the youngest teams in the AFL.

This year has been a washout , losing Ryder , Marshall , Jones , Paton , Gresham at the start of the season never helped and the basically form of a lot of the players - be positive because we will be playing finals next year and many years to come.
 

puppy_dog7

Premiership Player
Jul 29, 2007
4,344
10,931
AFL Club
St Kilda
Billings has been underwhelming , but we should pay him what he is worth whatever that is and if he doesn't want it let him go no big deal.
When we drafted him he was hyped and he has been as I said underwhelming but he is not the only high draft pick that has been average.
The thing is do you let a player who has never really had any injury problems walk out of the club at his prime , I would back Ratten in to make the right decision.
People also have to get over our drafting selections , every club hit and miss and after the McCartin trade we basically have not really picked a to many players that have been up to scratch which really is lucky and I'm talking about our late draft picks as well.

The club has changed totally since 2018 when Lethlean became General Manager , from this point when he came into the club , the team basically had hardly any talent.

You only have to look at the players that have been moved on and really when you see the players you can see why Richardson had no chance.

Draft
2018


- Max King (pick 4) He took a gamble and picked a injured Max King when he knew he wouldn't even play his first season most likely due to a ACL injury and now at 21 is looking like he might become a once in a generation player.

- Jack Bytel (pick 41) Another player teams stayed well clear of knowing he had to have a back operation and may never get back to the player he was as a junior / we took the gamble again knowing we had to go after talent and after his back operation looks to be on the right track however he has been hampered by the lack of game time because the VFL has devastated by Covid.

- Parker (pick 47) Hind (54) Young (67)

- Wilkie (rookie pick 3)

Our later picks were a stab in the dark because we had to fill the void of all the crabs we moved on and I would say they were all better than any of the guys we moved on.

Ray Connellan (del)
Nathan Freeman (del)
Sam Gilbert (del)
Hugh Goddard (del)
Tom Hickey (trd)
Darren Minchington (DFA)
Koby Stevens (ret)
Maverick Weller (PSS)
Nathan Wright (del)

Draft
2019

Ryan Byrnes (pick 52)
We only had 2 draft picks due to we attempted to get some experienced talent into the squad.
Leo Connolly (pick 64)

David Armitage - delisted
Billy Longer - delisted
Lewis Pierce - delisted
Sam Rowe - delisted

So as you you can see after 2 years Lethlean has moved on 13 players who were lucky to be even on a AFL list and then attempted to make the best of meager draft hand we had.

GOT Picks 12 and 18 - GAVE AWAY Picks 6 and 69

GOT Paddy Ryder, Dougal Howard, Pick 10 and a future fourth-round pick - GAVE AWAY Picks 12, 18 and a future third-round pick

GOT Pick 58 - GAVE AWAY Jack Steven


GOT Brad Hill and a future third-round pick - GAVE AWAY Blake Acres, Picks 10 and 58, a future second-round pick and a future fourth-round pick

GOT Picks 32 and 51 - GAVE AWAY Josh Bruce

GOT Zak Jones, Pick 56 and a future fourth-round pick - GAVE AWAY Picks 32 and 76 and a future third-round pick

GOT Dan Butler - GAVE AWAY Pick 56

So after 2 years at the club he has cleared more than half of the players in the squad and reloaded with more talent and amazing we even played finals that 2020.


Draft
2020

Mathew Allison
(pick26)
Tom Highmore
(pick 45)
midyear draft Max Heath (pick 7)
midyear draft Cooper Sharman (pick20)

GOT Brad Crouch from Adelaide as a restricted free agent

GOT Shaun McKernan from Essendon as an unrestricted free agent

GOT Jack Higgins, Pick 21 and a future fourth-round pick – GAVE AWAY St Kilda’s Pick 17 and future second-round pick


GOT Picks 67 and 74 from Essendon — GAVE AWAY Nick Hind and Pick 77


So In 3 years Lethlean has completely changed our squad and this year he will just about cleaned out the whole team with the removal of Geary will basically see in a new generation of players and a list loaded with talent that has massive scope.

I fully expect the club will move on the last of the players who are fill ins our injury prone - Frawley , Geary , McKernan , Hunter , Carlisle , Alabakis and re stock with young talent in the draft - making us one of the youngest teams in the AFL.

This year has been a washout , losing Ryder , Marshall , Jones , Paton , Gresham at the start of the season never helped and the basically form of a lot of the players - be positive because we will be playing finals next year and many years to come.
Yep, bit of an inverted dead cat bounce scenario for us, similar to the tiges 5 years ago and Melbourne last 2 years to now. In no way am I suggesting we can win it, but i think we’re very likely to be back in the 4th-8th spot next year.
 
Last edited:

bergholt

Good Ordinary Player
Mar 14, 2007
10,916
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Brunswick
AFL Club
St Kilda
He’s not a high half forward though, that may be his best position but we’ve used him on the wing and his numbers have been good.

Yeah maybe, but I guess there's a reason we're playing him at HF and that's because others do better on the wing. I think D-Mac plays wing more effectively than Billings, and that's something I never thought I'd say!
 
Okay.

curious. Who are your top 15 players at our club. In order.


I'll do it.......

Steele



Crouch
Jones
Howard
*Dunstan for now
Ryder
Sinclair
Gresham
Marshall
Clark
*Hill for a few weeks anyway.
Wilkie
*King- rising fast
Webster
Ross
Higgins
Billings
Membrey
Highmore
DMac
Paton
Byrnes
Wood
Coffield
Butler
Battle
Long
Connolly
Lonie
Kent
Bytel
Clav
Joyce
Phunter
Sharman
Allison
Alla

Geary Carlisle and Hanners really hard to put in. Obviously a few of the young ones will rise up eventually. McKernan and Frawley left off too. Probably left a few off.
 
Mar 14, 2011
12,767
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I'll do it.......

Steele



Crouch
Jones
Howard
*Dunstan for now
Ryder
Sinclair
Gresham
Marshall
Clark
*Hill for a few weeks anyway.
Wilkie
*King- rising fast
Webster
Ross
Higgins
Billings
Membrey
Highmore
DMac
Paton
Byrnes
Wood
Coffield
Butler
Battle
Long
Connolly
Lonie
Kent
Bytel
Clav
Joyce
Phunter
Sharman
Allison
Alla

Geary Carlisle and Hanners really hard to put in. Obviously a few of the young ones will rise up eventually. McKernan and Frawley left off too. Probably left a few off.
You have Billings in 17th. So in your opinion, would you pay him as a top 10 player on this list?
 

Yawkey way

Norm Smith Medallist
May 8, 2017
8,436
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Yeah maybe, but I guess there's a reason we're playing him at HF and that's because others do better on the wing. I think D-Mac plays wing more effectively than Billings, and that's something I never thought I'd say!
I’m a dmac fan and have backed him in when others thought he was a bad joke but billings is a very good wingman and a much better player.

I‘m just amazed how billing with a foot injury gets no love at all it’s just get jabbed up and play no excuses. Just because he can’t make the injury worse doesn’t mean it doesn’t hinder him because clearly it has. With Marshall it was don’t risk him etc but no love for billings.

This let billings walk approach has taken on life of its own, he‘s weak, timid, outside, can’t lay a tackle, can’t kick, beige, kicks sideways, doesn’t take the game on and there’s even more. Actually he’s a very good player who turns up most weeks and that’s the reason some posters hope he’ll get an offer large enough to trigger band one compo.

I’d like to know how posters putting the boots in reconcile their expectations and hopes for compensation with the player with so many faults it’s a wonder he’s best 22. Anyway I really rate him and hope we extend his contract, I think it will be a massive mistake if we don’t.

So there it is he’s certainly become a polarising player and there’s going to be some disappointed supporters either way.
 
Last edited:

Yawkey way

Norm Smith Medallist
May 8, 2017
8,436
22,441
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Red sox
I'll do it.......

Steele



Crouch
Jones
Howard
*Dunstan for now
Ryder
Sinclair
Gresham
Marshall
Clark
*Hill for a few weeks anyway.
Wilkie
*King- rising fast
Webster
Ross
Higgins
Billings
Membrey
Highmore
DMac
Paton
Byrnes
Wood
Coffield
Butler
Battle
Long
Connolly
Lonie
Kent
Bytel
Clav
Joyce
Phunter
Sharman
Allison
Alla

Geary Carlisle and Hanners really hard to put in. Obviously a few of the young ones will rise up eventually. McKernan and Frawley left off too. Probably left a few off.
You shouldn’t have done that gringo it’s going to bite you on the arse like a great white on a whale carcass 🤣🤣.
 
I'll do it.......

Steele



Crouch
Jones
Howard
*Dunstan for now
Ryder
Sinclair
Gresham
Marshall
Clark
*Hill for a few weeks anyway.
Wilkie
*King- rising fast
Webster
Ross
Higgins
Billings
Membrey
Highmore
DMac
Paton
Byrnes
Wood
Coffield
Butler
Battle
Long
Connolly
Lonie
Kent
Bytel
Clav
Joyce
Phunter
Sharman
Allison
Alla

Geary Carlisle and Hanners really hard to put in. Obviously a few of the young ones will rise up eventually. McKernan and Frawley left off too. Probably left a few off.
WOW I feel a little ill
That's one ordinary list
 
Oct 2, 2010
19,480
69,917
AFL Club
St Kilda
Okay.

curious. Who are your top 15 players at our club. In order.
Relevancy for listing our players?

All I know is we have few proven match winners on our list. But Billings is one of them. And we aren't a good enough list or club to be letting a proven match winner go for a pick in the mid to late 20s.
 
I'll do it.......

Steele



Crouch
Jones
Howard
*Dunstan for now
Ryder
Sinclair
Gresham
Marshall
Clark
*Hill for a few weeks anyway.
Wilkie
*King- rising fast
Webster
Ross
Higgins
Billings
Membrey
Highmore
DMac
Paton
Byrnes
Wood
Coffield
Butler
Battle
Long
Connolly
Lonie
Kent
Bytel
Clav
Joyce
Phunter
Sharman
Allison
Alla

Geary Carlisle and Hanners really hard to put in. Obviously a few of the young ones will rise up eventually. McKernan and Frawley left off too. Probably left a few off.
Steele

Marshall


Howard
Crouch
Jones
Ryder 33 years old
Clark
Sincs
King
Wilkie
Coffield
Dunstan
Byrnes

I give up just making me sad
 
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