List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

www.bigfooty.com

Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

D2D3 · Oct 4, 2021

Munga said:
Really? I don't get that view of it. Am I the only one here who thinks the club has been generous to Dunstan?

They've literally offered a contract to a player they don't rate, sounds like the club being loyal and throwing him a lifeline if he wants it. But because of that opinion, Dunstan doesn't want to be there anymore, and that's fair enough. If he doesn't find any other offers I still doubt that he will stay with us, he'd rather be playing where he's valued.

It sounds like nothing more than two parties mutually moving on for the best for both. All the crap the club is getting for this seems misguided.

Haha I actually don’t really disagree with you on that count, and it does come off to me like Dunston overrrates himself a bit, especially if he thought he should of been best 22 from the get go this year. But then he did play some good footy later on, we will likely get bare minimum for him if anything and it’s not like our list is chock full of midfielders banging down the door for his spot.

Spose we’ll see, if the best he can get is a couple of years at Gold Coast it would seem many others agree with Ratts.

LennyHayes77 · Oct 4, 2021

KingsRansom said:
Also Billings is criminally under rated, but then again, everyone needs a whipping boy now that Dunstan, Acres, Newnes and Bruce are gone.

There is a year between Billings and Petracca, now I'm not comparing the players they are right now, but so far over there careers, petracca has averaged

21.55 disposals
0.97 goals

Where Billings has averaged

20.87 disposals
0.71 goals

It's seriously bees dick territory...

Absolutely awful comparison. Stats aren't everything my friend. What does Billings do with his 20 touches a game? Does he ever impact the game in a meaningful way? Or does he just just look for the safe option every time.
Also look at the goal averages. 0.7 a game, while not terrible it could be so much better if he could kick it straight (drafted for his kicking ability no less) and how many times has he missed a crucial set shot that could have put us in a good spot?
I was one of the people happy to see the back of him before he'd re-signed but now that he has I don't mind it. Glad he's on a lot less coin though to be honest!
He can be a solid contributor but he really needs to add a bit of flair and confidence into his game.

St Kilda Death · Oct 4, 2021

Rors said:
Numbers & the eye test literally back up my claim… I said Billings is a slightly better version of Tom Phillips (ie: basically a rich mans Tom Phillips)

That’s pretty much spot on. Prove me wrong

If your eye test tells you Tom Phillips is on Billings level..

gringo2011 · Oct 4, 2021

Munga said:
Really? I don't get that view of it. Am I the only one here who thinks the club has been generous to Dunstan?

They've literally offered a contract to a player they don't rate, sounds like the club being loyal and throwing him a lifeline if he wants it. But because of that opinion, Dunstan doesn't want to be there anymore, and that's fair enough. If he doesn't find any other offers I still doubt that he will stay with us, he'd rather be playing where he's valued.

It sounds like nothing more than two parties mutually moving on for the best for both. All the crap the club is getting for this seems misguided.

I reckon you're trying to spin it. I doubt Dunny or his manager are thinking we handled it well and he isn't going to be leaving with anything but bad blood. He 100% won't stay, I think he'd be more likely to play SANFL than turn up at Moorabin next year. Like it or not Dunstan was a solid servant of the club and we've managed to cause a really messy break up. That's not very professional, he'll have players that are his mates and others in the industry watch what's going on.

gringo2011 · Oct 4, 2021

Bill Mohr said:
I dont think he would be better than plenty of previous P/ship players, just my opinion. I also think his 4 yr contract was too long. Not sure why the club did that. I dont have any problem with him getting another contract though, he has the skills and is consistent. He went just ok- didnt do enough in last yrs finals and Hill was very , very ordinary.. They will get another chance in 2022 but only one.

I think they are hoping he returns to his best and getting him at cheaper rates over a longer term ends up being a master stroke.

Saintbloke · Oct 4, 2021

Premium said:
We currently have a group of young players that have not even scratched the surface of how good they will be.

Max King could be the best tall forward there has been for years.
Higgins to me has been a great pick up and just adds x factor in our forward line.
Clark is nearing the stage he is going to be a force.
Coffield has shown how good he can be and expect a big year to shut his doubters up.
Gresham has missed the last couple years and he is ready for the midfield he was being prepped for.
Paton can play and will be vital when we play finals.

Then we has Highmore , Sharman , Connolly , Bytel , Byrne , Allison , Heath all talented with bright futures.

We also can't rule out Battle stepping up next year - it's amazing when a guy becomes un-contracted , they realize their AFL career could be gone , so they give it the max and this could his year and for a guy who only just turned 23 has a big future.

The old man in this lot is Gresham at 24 and you look at our guys at 25 - you can see we have a young strong list.
Steele , Marshall , Butler , Jones , Howard , McKenzie , Wilkie all 25.

I don't reckon Gresham will be playing midfield- he will be slower off the mark since his particular injury, and we need pace and elite kicking in that midfield- he has neither. Might be worth a shot doing the Caleb Daniel role in the back half as a smart player linking up, as I think we lack the ground level smarts down there. Clark needs a big preseason so he can take the next step- I think he just needs to be fitter and harder in the body.. Coff is coming along OK and the rest just need to get their bodies right for a big season. I don't think we were at a good enough fitness and conditioning level his season.

gringo2011 · Oct 4, 2021

tomjoad said:
Yeah, it may be a bee's dick, but I think in this instance it's a case of "how you use it" Petracca has always looked like putting it together at some stage...and now has. Billings looks like he's about to cry, and doesn't want to be noticed. It may be a bee's dick, it's just that one swings around, and the other retracts in a stuck in permafrost kind of way.

Yeah, they have a completely different mind set. One is the general who lifts their platoon on his back and runs head on into battle and the other is the ambitious young minister that comes out after a disaster and distributes prepackaged meals to the effected. If you compare them you'll get depressed but sometimes it's better just to eat your lukewarm chicken thing that might be a schnitzel without complaining.

Premium · Oct 4, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I reckon you're trying to spin it. I doubt Dunny or his manager are thinking we handled it well and he isn't going to be leaving with anything but bad blood. He 100% won't stay, I think he'd be more likely to play SANFL than turn up at Moorabin next year. Like it or not Dunstan was a solid servant of the club and we've managed to cause a really messy break up. That's not very professional, he'll have players that are his mates and others in the industry watch what's going on.

Is a hard break up when the coach tells him the truth , at least know we have management that calls a spade a spade.

tomjoad · Oct 4, 2021

LennyHayes77 said:
Absolutely awful comparison. Stats aren't everything my friend. What does Billings do with his 20 touches a game? Does he ever impact the game in a meaningful way? Or does he just just look for the safe option every time.
Also look at the goal averages. 0.7 a game, while not terrible it could be so much better if he could kick it straight (drafted for his kicking ability no less) and how many times has he missed a crucial set shot that could have put us in a good spot?
I was one of the people happy to see the back of him before he'd re-signed but now that he has I don't mind it. Glad he's on a lot less coin though to be honest!
He can be a solid contributor but he really needs to add a bit of flair and confidence into his game.

I'm with you on this one. But 4 years is too long. I appreciate his "loyalty" but it's probably more due to the fact that no other team rates him beyond a certain price range than anything else. Personally I see little value in what he does, other than the very rare occasions he actually decides to turn up...and what's that, once or twice a year...playing the even rarer blinder amazeballs game every 2nd or 3rd year of his - up until recently - bloated contracts.
I'd rather have kept Dunstan...and I'm not much of a fan of him either, but at least he makes an effort with the ability he has.
Gringo mentioned before that he's like the ambitious minister handing out the meals after a battle. It's pretty apt. But man, I want the guy from "Heart of Darkness" with a bunch of impaled victims heads of those who dare oppose him...including the head of the minister handing out mystery schnitzel.

pebblesofsand · Oct 4, 2021

Premium said:
Is a hard break up when the coach tells him the truth , at least know we have management that calls a spade a spade.

Yep - he only averaged 25 possesions a game for the season. Coach clearly reckons he underperformed and that we have incredible midfield depth!!!

sunny3193 · Oct 4, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I reckon you're trying to spin it. I doubt Dunny or his manager are thinking we handled it well and he isn't going to be leaving with anything but bad blood. He 100% won't stay, I think he'd be more likely to play SANFL than turn up at Moorabin next year. Like it or not Dunstan was a solid servant of the club and we've managed to cause a really messy break up. That's not very professional, he'll have players that are his mates and others in the industry watch what's going on.

C’mon Gringo.
That’s putting a lot of mayo on it.
These conversations happen multiple times every year at every club.
It’s a reality of life.
No one will be watching.
No one in the industry cares.
What’s the difference between Dunstan and for example; Parker, Mayo, Marsh or Acres, apart from some public bellyaching by Luke?
Nothing.
All were told their services were no longer required.

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
Yep - he only averaged 25 possesions a game for the season. Coach clearly reckons he underperformed and that we have incredible midfield depth!!!

At least we know he will walk onto another clubs list as a free agent then...

pebblesofsand · Oct 4, 2021

tomjoad said:
I'm with you on this one. But 4 years is too long. I appreciate his "loyalty" but it's probably more due to the fact that no other team rates him beyond a certain price range than anything else. Personally I see little value in what he does, other than the very rare occasions he actually decides to turn up...and what's that, once or twice a year...playing the even rarer blinder amazeballs game every 2nd or 3rd year of his - up until recently - bloated contracts.
I'd rather have kept Dunstan...and I'm not much of a fan of him either, but at least he makes an effort with the ability he has.
Gringo mentioned before that he's like the ambitious minister handing out the meals after a battle. It's pretty apt. But man, I want the guy from "Heart of Darkness" with a bunch of impaled victims heads of those who dare oppose him...including the head of the minister handing out mystery schnitzel.

Despite what the media says a 3 + 1 contract is not really a "4 year contract" until you reach the triggers required for the 4th year.

A bit like how an incentive based contract of $500K a year is not really $700K until until you actually play 23 games, do well in the B & F etc etc.

joydivision22 · Oct 4, 2021

Saintbloke said:
I don't reckon Gresham will be playing midfield- he will be slower off the mark since his particular injury, and we need pace and elite kicking in that midfield- he has neither. Might be worth a shot doing the Caleb Daniel role in the back half as a smart player linking up, as I think we lack the ground level smarts down there. Clark needs a big preseason so he can take the next step- I think he just needs to be fitter and harder in the body.. Coff is coming along OK and the rest just need to get their bodies right for a big season. I don't think we were at a good enough fitness and conditioning level his season.

I personally think Gresham's best position is in the forward line. Whilst I love his creativity in the centre, his kicking has seriously let him down in the past through the midfield but he's very effective inside 50. Happy with either though but HBF ain't for Gresh imo

BrutThough · Oct 4, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I reckon you're trying to spin it. I doubt Dunny or his manager are thinking we handled it well and he isn't going to be leaving with anything but bad blood. He 100% won't stay, I think he'd be more likely to play SANFL than turn up at Moorabin next year. Like it or not Dunstan was a solid servant of the club and we've managed to cause a really messy break up. That's not very professional, he'll have players that are his mates and others in the industry watch what's going on.

I think Dunstan needs to take some responsibility for the messing ending as well.

We will never know what was said behind closed doors, but Dunstan is the one who nailed the final nail in his own St Kilda coffin by going on radio, slamming Ratts and saying he'd reject a contract over staying. As soon as he publicly said that, he took away his ability to return with his tail between his legs if there was no where else to go.

BrutThough · Oct 4, 2021

Gresham is a midfielder.

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
Despite what the media says a 3 + 1 contract is not really a "4 year contract" until you reach the triggers required for the 4th year.

A bit like how an incentive based contract of $500K a year is not really $700K until until you actually play 23 games, do well in the B & F etc etc.

Can I ask where the info of the deal being 3 years with a trigger is coming from?

Everything I've read and heard has suggested it's a 4 year deal, including Ratten when he announced it on SEN

pebblesofsand · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
At least we know he will walk onto another clubs list as a free agent then...

Irrelevant.

Process poorly managed - Dunstan could have been allowed to find his "true worth" and since he was OOC we could have offered what contract we felt was applicable. (Exactly the same as Billings and Ross)

But all we did was p*** him off so much he won't look at returning to us. Anyway not a problem - we have so much midfield depth to replace him!!!

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

BrutThough said:
Gresham is a midfielder.

He's also a quality small forward.

Opinions obviously differ on where he's play his best footy going forward.

sammm · Oct 4, 2021

D2D3 said:
Damn this Dunston situation is looking quite the debacle. Can’t imagine him coming back after what he’s said publicly though.

we don't want him, so whats the big deal.

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
Irrelevant.

Process poorly managed - Dunstan could have been allowed to find his "true worth" and since he was OOC we could have offered what contract we felt was applicable. (Exactly the same as Billings and Ross)

But all we did was p*** him off so much he won't look at returning to us. Anyway not a problem - we have so much midfield depth to replace him!!!

Not irrelevant at all.

Sounds like they had an honest adult conversation. Both agreed it would be best for Luke's career if he could find another club.

He said himself he wouldn't take a deal if it was offered to him. That's his choice.

Unfortunately it sounds like that's not as easy as Luke hoped.

tomjoad · Oct 4, 2021

pebblesofsand said:
Despite what the media says a 3 + 1 contract is not really a "4 year contract" until you reach the triggers required for the 4th year.

A bit like how an incentive based contract of $500K a year is not really $700K until until you actually play 23 games, do well in the B & F etc etc.

Fair call...but meh...Billings.
Everyone has that player they can't get on board with. The Dunstan's, Ross's, and Long's of the world. For me it's Billings.
He just pisses me off. All the talent in the world...and he just dicks around the field being barely noticeable...and now we're stuck watching the invisible Man dicking around trying to hit triggers for whatever his contract consists of.
It's going to be an unmemorable 3+1 years.

BrutThough · Oct 4, 2021

bird_man said:
He's also a quality small forward.

Opinions obviously differ on where he's play his best footy going forward.

He hasn't played as a permanent small forward since mid say through 2018.

No doubt he will still spend time forward but our midfield is no where near good enough to play our most talent mid as a permanent small forward.

Would be such a waste.

Winmar2Lockett · Oct 4, 2021

Rors said:
Numbers & the eye test literally back up my claim… I said Billings is a slightly better version of Tom Phillips (ie: basically a rich mans Tom Phillips)

That’s pretty much spot on. Prove me wrong [emoji2371]

Sorry got my Phillips brothers mixed up. Tom was pretty decent 2 seasons ago at the Pies… not sure what happened to him in 2020 & didn’t take any notice of him this season.

JBs 1st half of 2020 until they went into the hub was outstanding… then he got a case of the fumbles that was Ian Baker Finch like.

Injury ruined this season but still had some very good games early in the season.

He’ll never be the superstar we wanted him to be but all we really do need him to be is someone who uses the ball well & takes his chances.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bird_man · Oct 4, 2021

BrutThough said:
He hasn't played as a permanent small forward since mid say through 2018.

No doubt he will still spend time forward but our midfield is no where near good enough to play our most talent mid as a permanent small forward.

Would be such a waste.

He also is yet to prove he's any more than a solid mid.

I'm not sold he's a better mid than he is a forward.

Yes he can get the footy and win a clearance but he doesn't seem near as damaging in the middle as he does forward.

He was on track to being one of the very best small forwards in the comp. He kicked more goals than anyone taken in the 2015 draft before his move into the midfield.

I can he has strengths in the middle, but I think the Robbie Gray role of playing forward and pinch hitting in the guts would be ideal for him

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