List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

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George

George

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Aug 17, 2015
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127,288
Victoria
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Phi Eagles & Phillies, Liverpool, PAO FC
Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis
Jack Lonie
Paul Hunter

Traded;
Luke Dunstan

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley


To see the full playing list list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

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List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – Monday November 15

List Lodgement 1
Friday October 29

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday November 3 - Tuesday November 9

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Wednesday November 10

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Thursday November 11 - Monday November 15

AFL Pre-Season Commences (First to fourth year players)
Monday November 22

National Draft
Round 1: Wednesday November 24 (7pm)
Round 2 – completion: Thursday November 25 (7pm - late)

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
Friday November 26 (3.20pm)

Final List Lodgement
Monday November 29

Pre-Season Commences (All other players)
Monday 6 December

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
December - March (tbc)

Pre-Season Christmas Break
Sunday 19 December - Sunday 9 January
 
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Mr_R0b0t said:
All the players you mentioned are quality midfielder. Xerri is effectively replacing Hunter, its that simple. He‘ll play 4-6 games per year. This will allow the use of our 1st round draft pick on a quality mid in a midfielders draft. Which our list desperately needs. By your theory we chase a quality ruckman and then hand over our 1st round in compensation. So we start season with a depth of ruckman and a sh*te midfield. We are no better.
Click to expand...


Woah, that is not my theory at all. No way do we give up that draft pick. The list also needs another defender but does not seem to come into the Xerri discussion.
 
Ephemeral Hope said:
We’re of a fairly similar mindset then, we just differ at our threshold of cheapness. If he doesn’t impact pick 9 and doesn’t impact our plans for the 2 NGAs he’s ok in my books.
Click to expand...

It would be absolute madness if he impacted on pick 9 or the NGAs. If anything pick 85 or a player swap with one of our fringe players would be best.
 

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Ray of Sunshine said:
Woah, that is not my theory at all. No way do we give up that draft pick. The list also needs another defender but does not seem to come into the Xerri discussion.
Click to expand...
Ok, your the recruiter now, comparing to the football department that has staff Australia wide, which player do you bring in for the Xerri role for next year, ready to play? Name a player? Yes, we do need a defender.
 
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bird_man said:
Never disputed you can't find good players in the rookie draft but you ar ignoring the fact that many players that hage left their existing club for more opportunity have also gone on to have great success.

Toby Nankervis was traded to Richmond when he couldn't cement a spot at Sydney and won a few flags...

Bacha Houli is another example.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I reckon our recruiters would be looking into all t state league like we did with Sharman, Wilkie and Highmore and clearly they think Xerri is better than what's out there.
Click to expand...

Early days yet and it may not be a done deal.
 
Ray of Sunshine said:
Agreed - it would have to be very cheap ie, pick 85. Definitely not 49 or the one we have in the 60s. People have been having a go at me (and i probably deserve it because i rarely back down) but one thing that I have observed about Melbourne is that it is not just a question of who they have traded in or drafted , it has also been their canny use of draft picks at the trade table. For me picks like 49 and 67 probably have great value and currency beyond an unproven ruckman. I am also strongly of the view that you go for best player available in drafts, irrespective of positional needs - but that is my opinion and others will differ.
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Pick 85. Are you actually being serious??

2020 draft only had 59 players picked, with most picks over 40 being junk picks traded as steak knives or acadamy players. 2019 had 65 players picked.

But you dont want to give up one of our 'valuable' picks in the 60's, and only want Xerri if he is pick 80+?? You must be fun at a group dinner when it comes to splitting the bill.

As long as we can cover Owens and Windhanger, who gives a f**k if Xerri is a pick in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s?? There is absolutely no chance teams are still picking anything other than acadamy upgrades or rookie upgrades after pick 50 / 55 or so. You must be about the only person out there that actually thinks there will be LIVE draft picks over 60 in the 2021 draft. Picks like the ones you are talking about only matter for points

If you want to go dumpster diving, save that for the rookie or mid-season draft where it belongs.
 
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puppy_dog7 said:
He’s going to play for his dad Cho, who never once dropped him.
Click to expand...

to be fair, we had no one better on the inside, Steel didn't hit his straps until Rat's 1st year. Crouch arrived last year, Ross and Coby Stevens were his only competition.
 
I think Xerri and Roma can split ruck/forward role pretty well 50/50.

If one is dominating in either position then we would be flexible enough to let it ride. If one is having a bad game then we can make the swap without sacrificing something positionally.

Heath could be great but will be a few years away at least.

Id also be open to dropping down the order on draft night. If Richmond or Brisbane want to give up a couple picks in the teens then that's fine.

Two of good mids will still be there for us.

Paton - Howard - Webster
Highmore - Wilkie - Sinclair
Billings - Steele - Hill
Sharman - Membrey - Higgins
Marshall - King - Butler
Ryder - Jones - Crouch
Gresham - Coffield - Clark - Bytel

Xerri in for any tall forward/ruck issues. He's in the team from round 1 2023.

Byrnes and Connolly first crack at the half back line.

Draftees all get a couple games along the way if form permits. Youth can help excite a good team to become even better. Look at Jordan and Bowey for the Dees.

Given Ratts first 2 years as coach have been during the most ****ed up seasons since WW2 I'm happy to give him a few more to adjust and keep developing this group into what he wants - Fast, aggressive, high scoring and high octane footy.
 
Mr_R0b0t said:
Ok, which player do you bring in for the Xerri role for next year, ready to play? Yes, we do need a defender.
Click to expand...

My opinion - bottom line. If he comes in, it has to be at a very cheap price. Given their recent success, it is not outside the realms of possibility that our list managers have alternatives, think WAFL or SANFL. One thing about defenders -it is amazing how many quality defenders (and ruckmen) in recent times gave come through the rookie draft - Wilkie among them but there is Rutten, Maxwell, Michael, Lumumba, McGovern, Dale Morris, Nathan Bassett, Firrito, Josh Gibson, Heath Grundy.,,the list goes on. As for rookie list ruckmen try Sandilands, Mumford, Jolly, Brogan, Jamar, Sam Jacobs etc
 
Enclosed_Animal said:
Pick 85. Are you actually being serious??

2020 draft only had 59 players picked, with most picks over 40 being junk picks traded as steak knoves or acadamy players. 2019 had 65 players picked.

But you dont want to give up one of our 'valuable' picks in the 60's, and only want Xerri if he is pick 80+??

As long as we can cover Owens and Windhanger, who gives a f**k if Xerri is a pick in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s?? There is absolutely no chance teams are still picking anything other than acadamy upgrades or rookie upgrades after pick 50 / 55 or so. You must be about the only person out there that actually thinks there will be LIVE draft picks over 60 in the 2021 draft. Picks like the ones you are talking about only matter for points

If you want to go dumpster diving, save that for the rookie or mid-season draft where it belongs.
Click to expand...
LOL. I’m not even sure pick 85 is worth any points.
 
Mr_R0b0t said:
Ray player drafting and player development are to separate things, player development has been woeful at St Kilda, players drafted at StK were rarely successful. Which is typical at low budget clubs. Tigers, Cats, Dees, WB and Sydney all excel in this area, all successful clubs. This should change with Damien Carroll coming on board.
Saints recruiting has greatly improved since Elshaug left, and the arrival of OShaugnessy, senior statistic analyst and Rath, we’re seen great improvement.
Click to expand...

Agree 100% though the development of Byrnes, Connolly and Sharman has been praiseworthy. Don't get me started on Elshaug, you could do one of those ESPN 60 for 60 documentaries on what happened to this club while he was there.
 
Enclosed_Animal said:
Pick 85. Are you actually being serious??

2020 draft only had 59 players picked, with most picks over 40 being junk picks traded as steak knoves or acadamy players. 2019 had 65 players picked.

But you dont want to give up one of our 'valuable' picks in the 60's, and only want Xerri if he is pick 80+??

As long as we can cover Owens and Windhanger, who gives a f**k if Xerri is a pick in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s?? There is absolutely no chance teams are still picking anything other than acadamy upgrades or rookie upgrades after pick 50 / 55 or so. You must be about the only person out there that actually thinks there will be LIVE draft picks over 60 in the 2021 draft. Picks like the ones you are talking about only matter for points

If you want to go dumpster diving, save that for the rookie or mid-season draft where it belongs.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Please remind me what picks Highmore, Byrnes and Connolly went at in their recent drafts. By your estimation Byrnes and Connolly were 'junk picks'. While you are at it, didn't Sharman go for pick 21 in a mid-season draft? And as I mentioned in another post , the last six players picked in the 2012 draft (numbers 99 through 107) played over 500 games between them. Four of them (inc Majak Daw, Touhy Cunningham) are still listed as playing and one, pick 105, Johannisen played for the Bulldogs in the last grand final. BTW, sadly, the 6 players we picked in that draft (24, 25, 40, 43, 75, 90) finished up playing 98 games between them, over 100 games less than the last five players picked in the 2012 rookie draft (picks 54 to 63). Recent history demonstrates that there is no such thing as a 'junk pick', unless you are referring to incompetent list management.
 
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Ray of Sunshine said:
Interesting. Please remind me what picks Highmore, Byrnes and Connolly went at in their recent drafts, and while your at it, didn't Sharman go for pick 21 in a mid-season draft?
Click to expand...
Ray of Sunshine said:
It would be absolute madness if he impacted on pick 9 or the NGAs. If anything pick 85 or a player swap with one of our fringe players would be best.
Click to expand...
Solid logic. Tell me then, why will there only be 50-60 live picks in this draft? Why wont we use live picks in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round if there is such value to be found??

Your cherry picking of a few select examples over the last few pages, and the value you put on picks over 50, have little tangible connection to reality

You are like the guy that hears a story of somebody once buying a diamond ring for $100 in Cash Converters. Now you think that the $100 note in your wallet is equivelant to the value of a diamond, and walk around the grocery store thinking that everything is massively overpriced. That decent quality steak should only be $2, because for $100 you can potentially buy a diamond. You think this logic makes you clever and able to recognise real value. To everyone else, you are just a tightarse who doesn't want to part with $20 for a perfectly good steak

As I say, as long as we get Windhanger and Owens, why does it matter if Xerri costs a pick in the 50s or the 80s or 130s? Basically no LIVE picks will be used past 50 (60 at the most). Pick 68 or 86 only matters for NGA points and is not going to be an actual player that we are missing out on.

Getting Xerri does not stop us picking someone like Highmore in the rookie draft or Sharman in the mid-season draft. The question here is Hunter OR Xerri for one list spot (as the third ruck). The hypothetical about us taking Xerri OR a late draft pick (who may or may not be a gem) is just a strawman you have created to get upset about
 
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Ray of Sunshine said:
recent times gave come through the rookie draft - Wilkie among them but there is Rutten, Maxwell, Michael, Lumumba, McGovern, Dale Morris, Nathan Bassett, Firrito, Josh Gibson, Heath Grundy.,,the list goes on. As for rookie list ruckmen try Sandilands, Mumford, Jolly, Brogan, Jamar, Sam Jacobs etc
Click to expand...

Can you please enlighten me as to how recent these players where drafted?

I prefer the ones this side of 2010.... We don't have the same recruiters that we did 10 years ago. The new ones seem to find pretty reasonable players with rookie and late picks.

Wilkie, highmore, byrnes, connolly, sharman, paton.

All late picks and rookie picks..all best 25 players
 
We are onto Part 3.
 
I don't think we've ever got to a Part 5 during a trade period either, so lets all work together to cook up some more mental bullshit
 
Choosing McCartin over Petracca? Thoughts? Concerns? How about that Bontempelli bloke. Nick Hind, what a player.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
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