Analysis 2021 trade thread

[mattsmob]

They might be young but they’ll be 50 in about 30 years

Sure but for the next year they'll still be early 20's.

 

[mpal6]

I've been a vocal supporter of "we need a second ruck" idea so I'm excited about Fort coming onboard. Hope it happens. If Fort can take the first ruck from Big O, it'll be interesting to see what Oscar can do as a full forward who plays deep. I doubt there'll be many defenders out there who can spoil BigO when he goes for a mark at its highest point.

We need to add something different to give us an edge for 2022 and Big O in forward line might be one of them.

 

[jackess]

Sure but for the next year they'll still be early 20's.

The mistake was drafting HSmith and Lane. Not Fort

 

[martinson]

IIRC the only Premiership winner in recent memory not to play 2 rucks was Richmond in 2020 when there were much shorter games and injury issues.

There seems to be a dearth of quality ruckmen overall . It wasn't that long ago when nearly every team had a good one. And in previous eras he was probably the most important player.

When a Gawn comes along you can see how important the ruckman is . Many of the teams are now making do with what they have.

 

[martinson]

The mistake was drafting HSmith and Lane. Not Fort

I think that's true. We brought 2 guys on to the list ,admittedly they're young, presumably to be ruckmen and the very next year we're out trying to get another one.

 

[mattsmob]

The mistake was drafting HSmith and Lane. Not Fort

Should've said that to start off with. I agree that I'm not sure where Smith fits at AFL level but he's still growing into his body and hasn't had much of a go in the ruck yet. Also at the time of drafting him we needed a project ruck/key position player so it wasn't particularly surprising. Lane I like as a pure ruck and thought it was a good idea to draft him last season, for me I hope he is our main ruck in the reserves next season.

 

[lioninthesand]

My point being that it's far more likely to work with Hipwood or McStay who are more mobile and have class and experience than Fullarton who at this stage you would obviously go with a smaller player.

Yeah obviously you would prefer Hippy over Fullerton, but either way, it's extremely tall for a team who already struggles horribly with rebound defence.

My response was more about the fact I used the finals team and a relevant, top of mind example.

Who knows hey? I'd say the plan is to use Fort (in place of Fullerton) and Oscar while Hipwood is out and then go to a forward resting ruck model, once Hippy is back - if all 5 bigs are available.

The club is probably not as bogged down about how we use him, they just want a decent ruck as back up and an option to use as part of various possible scenarios.

 

[lioninthesand]

My point being that it's far more likely to work with Hipwood or McStay who are more mobile and have class and experience than Fullarton who at this stage you would obviously go with a smaller player.

Yeah obviously you would prefer Hippy over Fullerton, but either way, it's extremely tall for a team who already struggles horribly with rebound defence.

My response was more about the fact I used the finals team and a relevant, top of mind example.

Who knows hey? I'd say the plan is to use Fort (in place of Fullerton) and Oscar while Hipwood is out and then go to a forward resting ruck model, once Hippy is back - if all 5 bigs are available.

The club is probably not as bogged down about how we use him, they just want a decent ruck as back up and an option to use as part of various possible scenarios.

 

[Dalions]

The mistake was drafting HSmith and Lane. Not Fort

How can you honestly say that that is a mistake?

 

[jackess]

How can you honestly say that that is a mistake?

I don’t think see the point of putting several years into developing an average ruck. Let alone 2

 

[mattsmob]

I don’t think see the point of putting several years into developing an average ruck. Let alone 2

Surely the idea is they become better than just average.

 

[jackess]

Surely the idea is they become better than just average.

I don’t see it

 

[Dalions]

I don’t think see the point of putting several years into developing an average ruck. Let alone 2

Well I hope they both prove you wrong.

I personally don’t see 2 developing rucks on a list as a mistake.

 

[jackess]

Well I hope they both prove you wrong.

I personally don’t see 2 developing rucks on a list as a mistake.

If they’re any good they’ll probably want to explore opportunities in a couple of years

 

[mattsmob]

If they’re any good they’ll probably want to explore opportunities in a couple of years

If they're good they'll be pushing for the number 1 ruck spot as Oscar hits 30.

 

[Lazza16]

We have 4 ruckman on our list without Fort Us looking at a 29 year old ruckman probably means Ambrorgio doesn’t think Fullarton Lane or Smith are ready to take the mantle if heaven forbid something happens to BigO

and?

 

[Nunez]

It's not like they're signed to long term contracts.

 

[Lazza16]

Really?

Melbourne, sure.

The Bulldogs were the runners up. I'd argue they have barely two halves of a ruck.

Port had 2-ish, although Ladhams only played 2/3rds of their season and Lycett is ok at best.

Geelong kinda have one. A bit of a conceded pass. They definitely don't have two.

Then us, who played Oscar plus a combination of someone whose primary ruck skill was dodging the opponent and someone who at least jumped but barely more than that.

GWS played the propped up corpse of Mumford.

Sydney plays a single ruck.

And I don't consider Essendon to have really made finals.

One team in the top 8 played two credible rucks.

I'd argue the Doggies should not have been there in the 1st place.

 

[Dalions]

If they’re any good they’ll probably want to explore opportunities in a couple of years

If they’re any good they might be pushing best 22 by then.

 

[AFLQLD]

Well I hope they both prove you wrong.

I personally don’t see 2 developing rucks on a list as a mistake.

Rucks are a weird commodity at football clubs. They generally take a while to develop physically, experience matters a lot and it can be hard and slow to get that experience and they ideally need some other useful roles they can fill. I think the conventional wisdom has been that unless there is a NicNat to be drafted early it is better to wait and grow one or two slowly or buy in a semi-ready made one when you need them.

There is another side to this as well. When you do produce or unearth a good one they become a sought after resource. And they often have longish careers. So the strategy of having a few developing ruckman isn’t necessarily an error if you can get one reasonable AFL level ruckman out of them (Darcy for example) or potentially get some trade value (Chol for example).

I think every club now keeps a pretty close eye on all ruckmen at all clubs for this reason. The trick is to know when to move them on for trade value or lock them in to keep them at the club. In hindsight we probably kept Archie a little too long because we had no one else really developing until Fullarton came along. Now at least there will be options to consider as they develop over the next year or two. And longer term the potential that one might eventually replace Oscar.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The mistake was drafting HSmith and Lane. Not Fort

The real mistake was not drafting Sam Hayes in 2017. Instead we went for Wooller and he's gone already.

 

[Lazza16]

Rucks are a weird commodity at football clubs. They generally take a while to develop physically, experience matters a lot and it can be hard and slow to get that experience and they ideally need some other useful roles they can fill. I think the conventional wisdom has been that unless there is a NicNat to be drafted early it is better to wait and grow one or two slowly or buy in a semi-ready made one when you need them.

There is another side to this as well. When you do produce or unearth a good one they become a sought after resource. And they often have longish careers. So the strategy of having a few developing ruckman isn’t necessarily an error if you can get one reasonable AFL level ruckman out of them (Darcy for example) or potentially get some trade value (Chol for example).

I think every club now keeps a pretty close eye on all ruckmen at all clubs for this reason. The trick is to know when to move them on for trade value or lock them in to keep them at the club. In hindsight we probably kept Archie a little too long because we had no one else really developing until Fullarton came along. Now at least there will be options to consider as they develop over the next year or two. And longer term the potential that one might eventually replace Oscar.

Speaking of Nic..I see Wc interested in Archie Smith which is holding up Sam PP move.

 

[blueiris]

and?

Thanks for bringing so much to the conversation

 

[Lazza16]

Thanks for bringing so much to the conversation

What is to bring...imo it is a done deal.

 

[Lazza16]

What is to bring...imo it is a done deal.

Would u like to chat about it for another 2 or 3 pages?