2021 Whats going Right, Whats going wrong so far?

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Simon Crawshay

Club Legend
Jun 4, 2016
1,665
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Said it in another thread but there is Buckleys chance we will still be second last come round 12.

Crows, Saints, WCE, North, Carlton and GC before the MSD
Talent wise we have the above sides (except West Coast and possibly Saints) covered and also our application had been top class most matches.

But.......

We don't kick goals.

Which means we can't put teams away (we are like a boxer without a knockout punch) which means every one of these games will come down to a couple of goals either way which means a large part will be down to luck.

So apart from North (who are a rabble) and possibly Gold Coast I put our winning odds at best 50/50 fo most of these matches.

Which makes a win at Launceston this Sunday so vital because if we can't win down there against Adelaide by golly we are in strife!
 

The hands of stone

All Australian
Sep 13, 2020
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Said it in another thread but there is Buckleys chance we will still be second last come round 12.

Crows, Saints, WCE, North, Carlton and GC before the MSD
A lot will depend on how quickly Gunston gets back in the groove .

I can see us winning 3-4 of those but also while our forwardline isnt functioning winning 1-2 as well.
 

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savagelunchbox

I'm being followed by a moonshadow.
Jan 4, 2011
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There's still no clear plan that's been made evident. The team selection is still suggesting that we're just a few tinkerings to the gameplan away from turning it all around. However the gameplan suggests the knowledge that the list is rubbish and we're playing a dour, overly defensive lockdown style to prevent being blown away and occasionally being close enough to sneak a victory here and there. To paraphrase Adelaide Hawk, we aren't going to win too many games if we're not scoring goal.

The recruiting of a Kyle Hartigan instead of a KPD who has been in a good system and ready to take the next step and become an automatically selected AFL player also suggests that the coaching staff think we're closer than what we are. Same can be said for the recruits of Phillips, Scully and Patton. Fortunately for the longevity of the club, the latter 2 are no more and aren't taking 2 spots on an already plodder-filled side.
 

Dew2KFC2Flag08

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Oct 12, 2008
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Said it in another thread but there is Buckleys chance we will still be second last come round 12.

Crows, Saints, WCE, North, Carlton and GC before the MSD
Think we lose all of them except Adelaide and North.

EDIT: Just remembered GC is in Darwin not GC, 50/50
 

almuz

Team Captain
Mar 24, 2012
416
812
AFL Club
Hawthorn
There's still no clear plan that's been made evident. The team selection is still suggesting that we're just a few tinkerings to the gameplan away from turning it all around. However the gameplan suggests the knowledge that the list is rubbish and we're playing a dour, overly defensive lockdown style to prevent being blown away and occasionally being close enough to sneak a victory here and there. To paraphrase Adelaide Hawk, we aren't going to win too many games if we're not scoring goal.

The recruiting of a Kyle Hartigan instead of a KPD who has been in a good system and ready to take the next step and become an automatically selected AFL player also suggests that the coaching staff think we're closer than what we are. Same can be said for the recruits of Phillips, Scully and Patton. Fortunately for the longevity of the club, the latter 2 are no more and aren't taking 2 spots on an already plodder-filled side.
Not sure about the Hartigan point. Promising young KPD don’t grown on trees and definitely aren’t likely to be let go by the other 17 teams in the AFL.

No problem with getting in Hartigan for mine - he’s solid enough and protects the younger bodies from getting destroyed by seasoned key forwards.

Going too much the other way and only bringing in 23 year olds and under is a recipe for doing a North. We’d end up without any on/off field leadership meaning good habits are not instilled within the group which means our progress is equivalent to running on a treadmill ala Carlton and Dees in the 00s.

Definitely agree about the game plan being super uninspired atm. Wish we played with a bit more fluidity but that may just be a skill thing.

Sick of: we win the ball from the stoppage > backwards handball >backwards handball > hurried snap down the line. Watching us atm can feel like a rugby Union game.

Collingwood from about ‘14 to ‘16 were still pretty bad/young but they played an attractive brand of footy which only got better once they had the talent to fully execute. Wish we’d do something similar.
 

savagelunchbox

I'm being followed by a moonshadow.
Jan 4, 2011
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Not sure about the Hartigan point. Promising young KPD don’t grown on trees and definitely aren’t likely to be let go by the other 17 teams in the AFL.

No problem with getting in Hartigan for mine - he’s solid enough and protects the younger bodies from getting destroyed by seasoned key forwards.

Going too much the other way and only bringing in 23 year olds and under is a recipe for doing a North. We’d end up without any on/off field leadership meaning good habits are not instilled within the group which means our progress is equivalent to running on a treadmill ala Carlton and Dees in the 00s.

Definitely agree about the game plan being super uninspired atm. Wish we played with a bit more fluidity but that may just be a skill thing.

Sick of: we win the ball from the stoppage > backwards handball >backwards handball > hurried snap down the line. Watching us atm can feel like a rugby Union game.

Collingwood from about ‘14 to ‘16 were still pretty bad/young but they played an attractive brand of footy which only got better once they had the talent to fully execute. Wish we’d do something similar.
There was no young KPD on the list to 'protect' when we traded for Hartigan. Kossie was being moved forward and the draft was a month after. Bringing in an old D grader to fill a gap someone else with potential could also fill is more Hawthorn, not North. The only thing Hartigan doesn't have that our other old D graders has is a history of injuries.

There are plenty of young, promising KPD in the AFL that would be enticed to ask for a trade for AFL exposure. We just don't hear about them.

EDIT: I do agree with the handballing crap. We're obsessed with handballing to stationary targets and seem to avoid the handball to the moving target.
 
Last edited:

12obocop

Draftee
Apr 1, 2021
2
3
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Hawthorn
Dan Howe is a player that we need a hell of a lot more from. I've been quick to jump on Mitchell, Worpel, O'Meara and Sheils when we get out gunned in the midfield, but the reality is they aren't always in their as a quartet. Where is the support coming from guys like Dan Howe? He played his 72nd game on the weekend, at 25 years old is physical mature enough and is blessed with some height as a mid at 191cm.

Tackling numbers are a crude but often fair indication of a player's commitment to the contest and level of intensity. Howe has laid 4 (TOTAL) in 5 games this season. 4. Comparatively Wingard has laid 10, Burgoyne 11, Morrison 13, Mitchell 17, O'Meara 21, Shiels 22.

You could argue his role is different, he swings back/mid/high half forward. All positions require more defensive intensity and Howe simply doesn't put the opposition under any pressure. It used to be a feature of his game.

Its most disappointing to see as we are desperately crying out for a) tall versatile mid to impose himself on the contest and b) a player in his age bracket that can step up and show something. He has been blessed with opportunities and development and so far this year, its not counting for much.
I wouldn't be questioning Howes commitment to the contest..one of the hardest players in the team. He helps out a lot in defense as the link up player and probably dosn't the speed to lay the tackles.
 

QuietB

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2008
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Loving how they are going.

The win against Essendon is looking better and better. And the losses have been against 3 top sides in the Tigers Cats and Dees plus Freo in Perth.

Every single game the Hawks play until July is winnable.

Saints, Eagles (MCG), North, Carlton, GC, Sydney, Scum, GWS

We are about to find out where they are at.
 

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QuietB

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2008
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Not sure about the Hartigan point. Promising young KPD don’t grown on trees and definitely aren’t likely to be let go by the other 17 teams in the AFL.

No problem with getting in Hartigan for mine - he’s solid enough and protects the younger bodies from getting destroyed by seasoned key forwards.
How quickly people forget a young Zac Dawson or Ryan Schoenmakers
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
6,844
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Talent wise we have the above sides (except West Coast and possibly Saints) covered and also our application had been top class most matches.

But.......

We don't kick goals.

Which means we can't put teams away (we are like a boxer without a knockout punch) which means every one of these games will come down to a couple of goals either way which means a large part will be down to luck.

So apart from North (who are a rabble) and possibly Gold Coast I put our winning odds at best 50/50 fo most of these matches.

Which makes a win at Launceston this Sunday so vital because if we can't win down there against Adelaide by golly we are in strife!
Boxer without a knockout punch isn't such a great comparison considering probably the greatest of all time in Mayweather Jr had less than a handful of actual KOs out of 50 fights. I get the point though.

West Coast are the walking wounded at the moment and we've got them at as good a time as any.
 

Simon Crawshay

Club Legend
Jun 4, 2016
1,665
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Boxer without a knockout punch isn't such a great comparison considering probably the greatest of all time in Mayweather Jr had less than a handful of actual KOs out of 50 fights. I get the point though.

West Coast are the walking wounded at the moment and we've got them at as good a time as any.
After kicking 100 points this week we may have just discovered our right hook again 😊

Honestly if we play the same fast flowing, attacking style we are a decent (60/40) chance of beating every one of these teams.

If we go back in our shell and play slow, defensive again then I think we are 50/50 for most of them.
 

PhatHQ

Premiership Player
Sep 26, 2015
3,480
4,326
Newcastle
AFL Club
Hawthorn
How quickly people forget that Alir Alir was there for the taking and we chose not to.
Would have been a nice piece but at the cost of a future second Rd pick over 4 years I think that it was worth a pass.
If we were to look at a guy like Oscar Clavarino this year who is ooc and could come cheap or throw cash at Darcy Moore next season RFA, or Tom Barrass after a true assessment of the list this season you take Hartigan or whoever as a stop gap til you hit what you truely need in the right age bracket rather than Alir who would be a couple of years early on the list expectations.
 

rjslcM

Club Legend
Apr 18, 2008
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There's still no clear plan that's been made evident. The team selection is still suggesting that we're just a few tinkerings to the gameplan away from turning it all around. However the gameplan suggests the knowledge that the list is rubbish and we're playing a dour, overly defensive lockdown style to prevent being blown away and occasionally being close enough to sneak a victory here and there. To paraphrase Adelaide Hawk, we aren't going to win too many games if we're not scoring goal.

The recruiting of a Kyle Hartigan instead of a KPD who has been in a good system and ready to take the next step and become an automatically selected AFL player also suggests that the coaching staff think we're closer than what we are. Same can be said for the recruits of Phillips, Scully and Patton. Fortunately for the longevity of the club, the latter 2 are no more and aren't taking 2 spots on an already plodder-filled side.
Edit: saw that you made your post before this weekend's win. I still stand by my words written below, but I understand it's easier to be pessimistic after a few losses. Hopefully you might feel a little more optimistic after what you saw on the weekend.

Clear plan is evident: the list is building, our coaches have stated this numerous times. Therefore, the plan is for the club to get maximum return from the current players on the list (development), and bring in talent where possible to add to that. Is this plan heading in the right direction? Evidently, we have players with a handful of games showing that they have what it takes, showing positive signs in their development. I therefore fervently disagree that team selection suggests that 'we're just a few tinkerings to the gameplan away from turning it all around'. Rather, as evidenced by players with a handful of games showing that they can play, it suggests that development in players is trending okay under the current mix. There are many variables important in supporting and nurturing development.

The gameplan? I find it laughable that we could assume that the players should be playing exactly like one single imagined gameplan right now. There are so many different ways for a team to approach a situation within one single match. You can't expect a Year 7 student to complete a Year 12 Physics assignment. There are many classes he needs to take between then, some of them exciting, some of them not exciting, some of them don't even look like the end product, but all are likely important to getting there. This is about development.

Please provide further evidence that our gameplan is 'overly defensive'.
 

CliffMcTainshaw

Club Legend
Apr 11, 2015
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I'm hoping North like the look of Jackson Callow and we are able to pick up Edwards.
Just read that Edwards may not be nominating. He's still at school doing Year 12 and would get shorter term contract than if he waits until next year. There is also the unappealing prospect, that in the mid year draft he might end up at North, where in next year's draft it's possible for him go to another club as he probably won't be the number 1 pick.
 

CD Xbow

Club Legend
Oct 1, 2014
2,172
4,628
AFL Club
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We are coming together, most of the pieces are in place for our next premiership We just need a team now.
I agree Grumble. We have some fine looking young prospects up forward, more backman than we know what to do with and a midfield that's probably one shy of being quality. All the parts need time to start working together then I think we will see significant gains.
 

Mr Meeseeks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 15, 2007
13,790
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After kicking 100 points this week we may have just discovered our right hook again

Honestly if we play the same fast flowing, attacking style we are a decent (60/40) chance of beating every one of these teams.

If we go back in our shell and play slow, defensive again then I think we are 50/50 for most of them.
Is possible at have been tweaking our style depending on who we have been playing?

If you ignore the freo game as an outlier as we were sh*t, we have played fast attacking footy (and won) v Ess and Ade. We locked the game up a bit more against Rich, Geel and Melb...

Against those last 3 teams clarko probably knew that we would not win a shoot out so he changed it up and we were competitive in all 3 games for the most part.

WCE next week but aside from them our oppo over the next 7 or 8 weeks gets easier. Im expecting some more entertaining footy from here on.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
 

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