2021 Wooden Spoon

2021 Wooden Spoon

  • Adelaide Crows

    Votes: 128 11.3%
  • Brisbane Lions

    Votes: 2 0.2%
  • Carlton Blues

    Votes: 21 1.9%
  • Collingwood Magpies

    Votes: 29 2.6%
  • Essendon Bombers

    Votes: 140 12.4%
  • Fremantle Dockers

    Votes: 7 0.6%
  • Geelong Cats

    Votes: 11 1.0%
  • Gold Coast Suns

    Votes: 12 1.1%
  • GWS Giants

    Votes: 8 0.7%
  • Hawthorn Hawks

    Votes: 119 10.5%
  • Melbourne Demons

    Votes: 8 0.7%
  • North Melbourne Kangaroos

    Votes: 586 51.7%
  • Port Adelaide Power

    Votes: 3 0.3%
  • Richmond Tigers

    Votes: 20 1.8%
  • St Kilda Saints

    Votes: 5 0.4%
  • Sydney Swans

    Votes: 17 1.5%
  • West Coast Eagles

    Votes: 15 1.3%
  • Western Bulldogs

    Votes: 2 0.2%

  • Total voters
    1,133

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I think the Swans started to show some decent signs in the second half of last season. The big question mark is what they can get out of their older guys like Kennedy, Franklin etc?

Meh put in a good game in the last match of covid season, were pretty average before then. Think they will be more or less the same next year but think North have more scope for improvement through various avenues to make up the 2 win gap.

Semantics either way
 
I'd argue we got shafted the most when it came to hubs. We shifted around all over the place which no doubt contributed to our poor season. Not an excuse just a reason. We were 2 from 2.at the G against the premiers and another top 4 team and were 3-1 before the hubs started. Pretty hard to dismiss us based on evidence to the contrary. We cleaned out a whole group of veterans and got handy replacements in return. It's nowhere near a wooden spoon list and if anyone actually thinks this your not doing a good enough analysis.

What's the state of your injury list? That would be my main concern for the Hawks going into the season based on what I've been reading here
 

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Happy to oblige.

Please do so then.

Yeah, and it's a stretch.

I disagree and you seem to coming out here and saying it's factual, interesting how you said you can't be objective in a prediction, yet, here you making a statement that to you seems objective.

Yeah. You don't think that's a factor?

I actually do, but it's very silly as players get chosen just because they play for better teams. At the end of the day, it doesn't effect the player's performance. Jayden Short wasn't in the AA squad but he won Richmond's best and fairest.
 
Please do so then.
I did.

I disagree and you seem to coming out here and saying it's factual
No, I'm merely offering my assessment of those players as a counterpoint to yours.

interesting how you said you can't be objective in a prediction
When did I say that? I questioned the idea that "proof" is possible when making a prediction.

yet, here you making a statement that to you seems objective.
When did I say that? I've offered an assessment, which takes account of my own observations and opinions.

These are some clumsy attempts by you. Suffice to say, they're unlikely to stick.

I actually do
So you agree with me on that score.

Jayden Short wasn't in the AA squad but he won Richmond's best and fairest.
Relevance?
 
What's the state of your injury list? That would be my main concern for the Hawks going into the season based on what I've been reading here
Sicily and Gunston are big losses. We won't be able to replace Jack but if we can get Lewis back to his 2019 form and Patton can stay on the park that will offset his loss a bit. Contrary to other people's opinions we actually have a decent backline even without Sicily. Denver Grainger-Barass will play next year and he was the best key defender in the draft and ready to go. Guys like scrimshaw fly under the radar but he was pretty good this season in an intercepting role. Basically a Birchall clone and is only 22. My issue and where things could go pear shaped is how our midfield performs because on paper it's way under performing to its capabilities. IMO having Scott Burns as midfield coach didn't help which is why he is at another club. That group collectively need to get their fingers out of their arses because it's the main reason we are a middle of the road team.
 
Not really.

Ok. You don't think Simpkin isn't as good as I think he is, provide a reason as to why. I'll do it for you, his disposal isn't the best or you don't think his early 2020 form can be replicated in 2021, that's all you had to say.

Relevance?

I already explained to you why, the AA selection process is not the same as how coaches value their own players. Realistically, if every player does what they're asked at the highest calibre, their team should be well in contention. In this case Hardwick gives Short and all other team mates an order of how to play each week. Short throughout the entire season, according to his own coaches, outpreformed all other team mates given the according roles they were assigned to. However, whilst Richmond valued Short as their best player, the AA selection process didn't.
 
He's still a first-year player. Are you expecting him to hold down CHB in his first season?
He will provide a good depth option while he develops. We have Hartigan and a mix of Frost/ Hartley depending on match ups that will be in line for certain positions back there. BigBoy must play ruck next year as Cegler is mediocre and it will make our midfield look better. The game against Port he rucked by himself and killed it and we almost won because of it. Still is clearly a premier ruck in the game but is being managed so we can get a few more years out of him. That strategy is pointless if your not in the window. You need to create a window by getting the most out your best players while you can.
 
Not really.

Ok. You don't think Simpkin isn't as good as I think he is, provide a reason as to why. I'll do it for you, his disposal isn't the best or you don't think his early 2020 form can be replicated in 2021, that's all you had to say.
It would be a massive step for him to become one of the best 15 mids in the comp next season, which is effectively what we're talking about. You think he is cherry ripe to take that step. I disagree. I think that's a stretch and it may be another 12 months at least before he is even in that discussion.

I already explained to you why, the AA selection process is not the same as how coaches value their own players.
Sure. But how is that relevant?

We are discussing how many North players are demonstrably AA squad calibre.

Jayden Short winning Richmond's B&F has nothing to do with that.

Realistically, if every player does what they're asked at the highest calibre, their team should be well in contention. In this case Hardwick gives Short and all other team mates an order of how to play each week. Short throughout the entire season, according to his own coaches, outpreformed all other team mates given the according roles they were assigned to. However, whilst Richmond valued Short as their best player, the AA selection process didn't.
This is just tangential waffle that doesn't relate to the question.
 
Sure. But how is that relevant?

We are discussing how many North players are demonstrably AA squad calibre.

Jayden Short winning Richmond's B&F has nothing to do with that.

This is just tangential waffle that doesn't relate to the question.

Short, is an example since 3 Richmond players were selected in the AA squad yet, Short wasn't one of them despite this won Richmond's BnF. My point is, there are different perspectives to how each player is seen. I mean look at the conversation we're having about players like Simpkin and McDonald.

Not every AA selection or decision is correct, most people would say Butler and Maynard deserved a spot in the best 22, yet they didn't.
 

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Short, is an example since 3 Richmond players were selected in the AA squad yet, Short wasn't one of them despite this won Richmond's BnF. My point is, there are different perspectives to how each player is seen. I mean look at the conversation we're having about players like Simpkin and McDonald.

Not every AA selection or decision is correct, most people would say Butler and Maynard deserved a spot in the best 22, yet they didn't.
This doesn't relate to what we're discussing.

Besides, B&F results often throw up strange outcomes because they emphasise roles within the team structure/ethos rather than being elite in a specific position, which is what we're talking about.
 
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North and Bomber fans both talking up their draftees like they are going to be their savour's for 2021.

The wooden spoon is going to be a fascinating contest next year and the banter between the bottom teams is going to be first-class over the back half of the season.

I haven’t seen a single Essendon supporter who has supported your hypothetical. Not one


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How many players do they have who could make the AA squad next season?

Tarrant and Goldstein if they maintain their level. And they're both 30+. Anyone else?
Not many if any, but for mine, the sum of all their parts appears marginally better than a few other teams and with a new coach i reckon others will finish lower.
 
Definitely hawks or north but this is the year you want go be last no doubt. The difference between pick 1 and 2 this year is enormous, Jason Horne is the best draft prospect in 20 years, maybe ever. He could have been top 10 in alot of teams THIS year
 
I haven’t seen a single Essendon supporter who has supported your hypothetical. Not one


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This took about 2 minutes to find below quotes;

"I've wanted him every since i heard about his attributes. Elite kicking on both sides, elite tank, great size. Could be anything. "

"We haven’t had someone like this for a long, long time."

"Was smitten as soon as I saw his highlight reel and can’t wait to see him play for us".

"Best pick in a long time, this kid screams X Factor....... "

"He's a seriously exciting prospect at 202 cm with his elite kicking. "

2 minutes.
 
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