Play Nice 2022 AFL/AFLW Crowds/TV Ratings/Stream thread

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The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
36,464
34,262
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
As expected the W going to 18 teams has been a disaster. Both financially and for interest in the competition (due to an even lower standard).

Too early to make the call. Financially it probably breaks even between AFL sponsorships and tv and the clubs own deals. Whether thats the case under a new CBA is another story.

Problem for people who say this is theres no breakdown on revenues from the AFL so its impossible to really make that call.
 

Bjo187

Club Legend
Apr 30, 2020
1,340
1,553
AFL Club
Essendon
Too early to make the call. Financially it probably breaks even between AFL sponsorships and tv and the clubs own deals. Whether thats the case under a new CBA is another story.

Problem for people who say this is theres no breakdown on revenues from the AFL so its impossible to really make that call.

Which I think tells you it's losing significantly, I thought I read it was about 30 mill last year in cost, so more teams and significant pay rises this year you'd have to at least double that.

Sponsorship I agree, but I don't know if the tv would be anything, the AFL would almost pay for the promotion of having it on tv if anything.

I like the concept I just think about 10 teams is about the marker and it shouldn't be professional, salaries should be about average wage for the few months they are training/ playing the season. Once it generates profits then salaries should go up. Better product, less cost, better public perception.
 

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
36,464
34,262
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
Which I think tells you it's losing significantly, I thought I read it was about 30 mill last year in cost, so more teams and significant pay rises this year you'd have to at least double that.

Sponsorship I agree, but I don't know if the tv would be anything, the AFL would almost pay for the promotion of having it on tv if anything.

I like the concept I just think about 10 teams is about the marker and it shouldn't be professional, salaries should be about average wage for the few months they are training/ playing the season. Once it generates profits then salaries should go up. Better product, less cost, better public perception.

It tells you literally nothing unless you really want it to. The AFL doesnt split its commercial, sponsorship, match or other revenues - hasnt done since well before AFLW was a thing.
 

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weewilly

All Australian
Jul 18, 2003
653
415
Other Teams
Swans
Big crowd at Punt Road today for the AFLW match and it is not even a Tigers match.It is the biggest I have seen there for a long time!
 

weewilly

All Australian
Jul 18, 2003
653
415
Other Teams
Swans
The AFL have to hope the AFLW crowds are not permanently damaged and recover to somewhere near what they were only a few years back.

The AFLW is starting to look like it is going the same way of the now floundering cricket BBL!
 

Bjo187

Club Legend
Apr 30, 2020
1,340
1,553
AFL Club
Essendon
It tells you literally nothing unless you really want it to. The AFL doesnt split its commercial, sponsorship, match or other revenues - hasnt done since well before AFLW was a thing.

Well the fact player salaries are total $25 million for a 10 round season, that's not including additional staff at clubs and AFL HQ to run the competition and all their salaries on top of that, plus ground hire, flights and accommodation.. and the income that comes from that?

$10 entry for a crowd of 1 or 2 thousand people, sponsorship which I'm sure isn't that much considering crowds and tv don't give much exposure. I reckon all up just spitballing, it would be something like 40 million out, 5 million in, so running at a loss of at least 30 million per year. Which contributes significantly to the AFL's losses incurred last year. They would have just about broken even instead of losing 40 million dollars from their coffers last year if the competition was halved in size, plus it would be a much better product to promote.
 

What else we can do

Club Legend
Nov 20, 2018
1,154
1,206
AFL Club
Carlton
Here are the top 5 Grand Final Crowds of all time

1) 121,696 Collingwood v Carlton M.C.G. 1970
2) 119,165 Richmond v Carlton M.C.G. 1969
3) 118,192 St Kilda v Hawthorn M.C.G. 1971
4) 116,956 Richmond v Carlton M.C.G. 1973
5) 116,828 Essendon v Carlton M.C.G. 1968

Top 5 Grand Crowds since 2000

1) 100,022 West Coast v Collingwood M.C.G 2018
2) 100,021 Adelaide v Richmond M.C.G 2017
3) 100,016 Collingwood v St Kilda M.C.G 2010
4) 100,014 Richmond v GWS M.C.G 2019
5) 100,012 Geelong v Hawthorn M.C.G 2008
 

mblack42

Debutant
Feb 27, 2015
52
61
AFL Club
Collingwood
Too early to make the call. Financially it probably breaks even between AFL sponsorships and tv and the clubs own deals. Whether thats the case under a new CBA is another story.

Problem for people who say this is theres no breakdown on revenues from the AFL so its impossible to really make

The AFL have to hope the AFLW crowds are not permanently damaged and recover to somewhere near what they were only a few years back.

The AFLW is starting to look like it is going the same way of the now floundering cricket BBL!
Out of curiosity what exactly is deemed an acceptable crowd for AFLW?

Taking into account the context that women's sport (for a range of reasons) generally attracts lower crowds, ratings etc. Are the crowd figures more or less what would be expected for a competition that is 7 years old, hasn't entirely had a consistent place in the sporting calendar and has only just expanded to include every club? Especially when compared to other women's domestic sporting leagues here and abroad.

Some games are going to be better attended than others (given who is playing and where) and in at times less than stellar conditions (weather, time and location).

None of which is to say there are not improvements that could be made, but are they more or less what is to be expected?
 

Rob

Premium Platinum
Nov 8, 2000
31,795
19,654
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Out of curiosity what exactly is deemed an acceptable crowd for AFLW?

Taking into account the context that women's sport (for a range of reasons) generally attracts lower crowds, ratings etc. Are the crowd figures more or less what would be expected for a competition that is 7 years old, hasn't entirely had a consistent place in the sporting calendar and has only just expanded to include every club? Especially when compared to other women's domestic sporting leagues here and abroad.

Some games are going to be better attended than others (given who is playing and where) and in at times less than stellar conditions (weather, time and location).

None of which is to say there are not improvements that could be made, but are they more or less what is to be expected?

You're looking at it too simplistically. It's not a matter of having a line where it's acceptable or not, the league should be looking for continuous improvement in it's measurables. Playing standard, crowds, TV viewers, overall interest.

And regrettably all those things seem to have declined, in some cases significantly. It's too early to make a definitive call yet, I'd give it a few weeks of clear air before doing so on this season. But the signs are not good.
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,710
5,826
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
It's a miracle we've made it to 18 teams inside six years.
That's 6 years of constant disruption.
We've bitten the bullet and done it - that is the single most important thing.
It has already driven female participation, the 18 year olds are already coming through, and for the most part, they are bloody good.
There are two SEQ teams predominantly made up of local girls, one of those teams is a powerhouse - that's an extraordinary achievement.
And of course two Sydney based teams are going to struggle, but once again, it's a miracle they've been able to get both teams out on the paddock.
It's an extraordinary achievement having made it this far.
It's actually impossible to overstate just how extraordinary it is.
 

sverik25

Norm Smith Medallist
May 31, 2008
5,545
6,712
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
A significant reason AFLW crowds have declined is because they are no longer free admission - you can't just rock up and walk in anymore.

On the standard, it has improved significantly since inception. Yes, it has taken a hit this year, but confident this is only temporary. We have more and more girls coming through who have been playing from a young age - this proportion will continue to increase over the next 10 years - which will have a significant impact on the quality.
 

Prince Imperial

Club Legend
Apr 9, 2003
1,535
1,246
The Drill Hall
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
The official sold out crowd at Punt Rd Oval for Dogs/Roos 2121.

The grandstand side was closed for most fans who were crammed into a small low gradient hill that made it difficult for children and short people (not me!) to see. Poor facilities for toilets and food.

I know the Dyer stand will be rebuilt some time in the future but this ground is nothing but a training and admin venue and it's a disgrace that the AFLW scheduled the match there.

The playing surface is hemmed in by Punt Rd, Brunton Ave and a giant admin building and will always be a mediocre venue for fans. Carlton, Port Melbourne and Werribee would have been better options for this match and its yet another failure by Livingstone and the AFLW to have scheduled the match there.

More broadly, it's another reason why expansion has been a failure. Clubs should not have been admitted into the League without ready or near ready decent standard grounds and there are a few in this category here in Melbourne.
 

Prince Imperial

Club Legend
Apr 9, 2003
1,535
1,246
The Drill Hall
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Collingwood and Essendon were scheduled today on a public holiday at Collingwood's training and admin venue which is very much lacking in spectator comfort and viewing rather than at Victoria Park which still has two public grandstands and decent hill areas. Another example of woeful scheduling by the AFLW.
 

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Bjo187

Club Legend
Apr 30, 2020
1,340
1,553
AFL Club
Essendon
It's a miracle we've made it to 18 teams inside six years.
That's 6 years of constant disruption.
We've bitten the bullet and done it - that is the single most important thing.
It has already driven female participation, the 18 year olds are already coming through, and for the most part, they are bloody good.
There are two SEQ teams predominantly made up of local girls, one of those teams is a powerhouse - that's an extraordinary achievement.
And of course two Sydney based teams are going to struggle, but once again, it's a miracle they've been able to get both teams out on the paddock.
It's an extraordinary achievement having made it this far.
It's actually impossible to overstate just how extraordinary it is.

It makes zero difference to the amount of participation at grassroots level if you have 18 teams in the top competition instead of say 10 or 12. It does however significantly dilute the product and cost the game a massive amount of money which could be diverted into other much needed game development.

This would achieve the same outcome, cost less and make for a more watchable product:

S.a 1
W.a 1
NSW 1
QLD 2
Vic 5
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
15,710
5,826
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Brumbies, Socceroos
It makes zero difference to the amount of participation at grassroots level if you have 18 teams in the top competition instead of say 10 or 12. It does however significantly dilute the product and cost the game a massive amount of money which could be diverted into other much needed game development.

This would achieve the same outcome, cost less and make for a more watchable product:

S.a 1
W.a 1
NSW 1
QLD 2
Vic 5

It's a short term hit for long term gain.
We discussed this very topic 5 years ago.
How to grow from the then 8 teams, and it seemed an almost impossible task at the time (because the first 8 teams had grabbed all the available talent).
But we did get to 18 teams - and it has to be 18 teams - and it had to be as quick as possible.
It's happened, we're here, all AFL fans now have an AFLW team - it had to happen, thankfully, we bit the bullet and did it.
In the meantime, no other sporting comp in Australia, men or women, has 18 clubs competing at a national level.
It's an extraordinary achievement.
 

Rouel_14

Club Legend
Apr 27, 2014
1,289
1,344
Bendigo, Victoria
AFL Club
Richmond
Make AFLW free again, build it and it will come.

Why can’t the guys pay way of the girls for the next ten years while it grows 🤷🏼‍♂️





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