Prediction 2022 captain - It's Jack

Who do you want as captain in 2022

  • Jack Ziebell

    Votes: 55 35.3%
  • Luke McDonald

    Votes: 14 9.0%
  • Jy Simpkin

    Votes: 81 51.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 3.8%

  • Total voters
    156

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Eggs11

Team Captain
Jul 18, 2021
367
1,204
AFL Club
North Melbourne
People are talking about taking the captaincy off a great captain. The only argument for changing - that he is is running out of legs - is unfounded, a bit insulting and potentially detrimental given he just came third in the B&F. List fiddling is best kept to SuperCoach and the inside of pyjama pants.
 

the Ziebull

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2010
28,937
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People are talking about taking the captaincy off a great captain. The only argument for changing - that he is is running out of legs - is unfounded, a bit insulting and potentially detrimental given he just came third in the B&F. List fiddling is best kept to SuperCoach and the inside of pyjama pants.
The argument is if someone is ready while we still have Ziebell to help transition over

ultimately I’d be happy with any of them so whoever gets the most player votes give it to them as the leader the players want to follow
 

hotchilli

Premiership Player
Jun 5, 2021
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l'm not saying do it but if the club and Jack see it that Jy , going by his performance up to date. could become captain for the remainder of the season. Naturally you wouldn't tell Jy but keep on observing him both on and off the field l think it would be a boost to the club and players alike . We are the club that always has ideas from left field so why not this one... its better than the co-captains idea..

It would be extremely disrespectful to JZ to remove the captaincy from him mid-season.
 

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shinboner magic

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 17, 2007
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People are talking about taking the captaincy off a great captain. The only argument for changing - that he is is running out of legs - is unfounded, a bit insulting and potentially detrimental given he just came third in the B&F. List fiddling is best kept to SuperCoach and the inside of pyjama pants.

Great captain - duck no
 

King Corey

Moderator
Jun 9, 2001
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People are talking about taking the captaincy off a great captain. The only argument for changing - that he is is running out of legs - is unfounded, a bit insulting and potentially detrimental given he just came third in the B&F. List fiddling is best kept to SuperCoach and the inside of pyjama pants.

I rate Jack as a ripper of a bloke but by what measure do you assess him as a "great" captain?
 

Lomas

Premium Platinum
Nov 4, 2020
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North Melbourne
I don't see the issue with keeping Jack as the captain this year with JS as the heir apparent.
Seems a logical path with a building team.
 

Eggs11

Team Captain
Jul 18, 2021
367
1,204
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I rate Jack as a ripper of a bloke but by what measure do you assess him as a "great" captain?

On field leadership and direction, communication, preparation, training standards, physical presence, courage, adaptability, experience and leading by example.

What makes you question it?
 

pupstar

Club Legend
Aug 12, 2017
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AFL Club
North Melbourne
On field leadership and direction, communication, preparation, training standards, physical presence, courage, adaptability, experience and leading by example.

What makes you question it?
Could not have said it better myself. I would like to know what does not make him a good Captain cause i cannot think of anything. Obviously the players for the last 10 years agree.
 

Swallow_Wood

Club Legend
Jun 11, 2015
2,603
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AFL Club
North Melbourne
Given we are wooden spooners and still going through a significant transitional period I think a steady hand and old head is still the best way to go for now. There will be ups and downs this year and i think it better to give the role to Jy once we have started our ascent.

Jack for another12 months and a shoulder tap for Jy to use 2022 to get ready for the take over in 2023.
 
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Mixed Results

Club Legend
Nov 17, 2011
1,854
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It's easy enough to say that everyone has been a great captain, but I'd be interested to see where people would rank Ziebell out of 12 among our captains over the past 50 years.

David Dench, Barry Davis, Keith Greig, Wayne Schimmelbusch, John Law, Matthew Larkin, Wayne Carey, Anthony Stevens, Adam Simpson, Brent Harvey, Andrew Swallow and Jack Ziebell.

Happy to defer to those with a better memory of some of the older players on that list, but my instinct would be to have Ziebell comfortably in the bottom four. 35-69-1 record and no finals as captain, one of two wooden spoons over this period, and one of two players on that list to never win a best and fairest.
 

Passmore

Brownlow Medallist
May 22, 2001
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It's easy enough to say that everyone has been a great captain, but I'd be interested to see where people would rank Ziebell out of 12 among our captains over the past 50 years.

David Dench, Barry Davis, Keith Greig, Wayne Schimmelbusch, John Law, Matthew Larkin, Wayne Carey, Anthony Stevens, Adam Simpson, Brent Harvey, Andrew Swallow and Jack Ziebell.

Happy to defer to those with a better memory of some of the older players on that list, but my instinct would be to have Ziebell comfortably in the bottom four. 35-69-1 record and no finals as captain, one of two wooden spoons over this period, and one of two players on that list to never win a best and fairest.

How do you judge a captain? Jack hasn’t had much of a team around him since he was appointed so it’s harsh to pin the spoon on him. Dench captained a spoon then a premiership.

How many players have been captain of a spoon and premiership team?
 

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Mixed Results

Club Legend
Nov 17, 2011
1,854
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How do you judge a captain? Jack hasn’t had much of a team around him since he was appointed so it’s harsh to pin the spoon on him. Dench captained a spoon then a premiership.

How many players have been captain of a spoon and premiership team?

It's an incredibly subjective exercise. If 30 of us ranked them one through twelve, we'd probably get 30 different orders.

When looking at the list, Ziebell does seem like an easy target to pick on given his lack of individual and team success. Obviously, it's not all his fault, but his captaincy has coincided with our worst 5 year stretch by any measure during this period. But I'd agree that if you listed out the traits that you'd want in a captain then Ziebell would tick a lot of the boxes. For that reason, I could certainly see somebody saying he was a better captain than somebody like Brent Harvey for example.
 

pupstar

Club Legend
Aug 12, 2017
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It's easy enough to say that everyone has been a great captain, but I'd be interested to see where people would rank Ziebell out of 12 among our captains over the past 50 years.

David Dench, Barry Davis, Keith Greig, Wayne Schimmelbusch, John Law, Matthew Larkin, Wayne Carey, Anthony Stevens, Adam Simpson, Brent Harvey, Andrew Swallow and Jack Ziebell.

Happy to defer to those with a better memory of some of the older players on that list, but my instinct would be to have Ziebell comfortably in the bottom four. 35-69-1 record and no finals as captain, one of two wooden spoons over this period, and one of two players on that list to never win a best and fairest.
Depends what you call success. wins Finals Flags or personal success.
 

Heaps of fun

Goatered on the sticks
Sep 13, 2013
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Skippers of losing teams always get rated worse. If Brad Scott ever set up that long period of success that he would bullshit about so much then I think Jack would be rated much higher.
 

Heaps of fun

Goatered on the sticks
Sep 13, 2013
21,436
51,831
AFL Club
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It's easy enough to say that everyone has been a great captain, but I'd be interested to see where people would rank Ziebell out of 12 among our captains over the past 50 years.

David Dench, Barry Davis, Keith Greig, Wayne Schimmelbusch, John Law, Matthew Larkin, Wayne Carey, Anthony Stevens, Adam Simpson, Brent Harvey, Andrew Swallow and Jack Ziebell.

Happy to defer to those with a better memory of some of the older players on that list, but my instinct would be to have Ziebell comfortably in the bottom four. 35-69-1 record and no finals as captain, one of two wooden spoons over this period, and one of two players on that list to never win a best and fairest.
Ziebell's wooden spoon is really Brady and Luff's wooden spoon. List managers have so much more sway over the direction of clubs compared to captains, especially when you compare them to the heroes of the 70s and 90s. Imagining some statistician telling David Dench that he's going to lose 14 of his most senior footballers for a bunch of teenagers and has basically no say on the matter, he would probably walk out on the club.
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
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How do you judge a captain? Jack hasn’t had much of a team around him since he was appointed so it’s harsh to pin the spoon on him. Dench captained a spoon then a premiership.

How many players have been captain of a spoon and premiership team?

Not by the spoon last year.

But...

2018 Jack missed shots on goal that cost us games and those games cost us a finals spot. In 2019 when we were playing well and had the chance to sneak into finals he lead us to our lowest score in history.

But he mentored Jy who has come on in terms of leadership. And he seems to have held the playing group together thru some huge upheavals - not just COVID but the rebuild of the footy department and playing group. We could have seen the side ripped apart the way Adelaide were a few years ago but that didn't happen.

So its hard to judge Jack's tenure but the longer its gone on the harder its been for him and the better he has performed under that off field pressure, at least in terms of other aspects of leadership for a young group not expecting any success yet. (Well that is how it seems from the outside anyway.)

If we build a strong side that has a dominant (multi-flag) era, a dynasty if you want to use the latest footy media buzzword, then alot of that will be because Jack provided stability and a strong base to build from when we had none. You could compare him to Duck and the premierships .... Jack may have less (very little) success but leave us with a better equiped group of players who go on to achieve the greatest era the club has had yet.
 

Makeshift Park

Club Legend
Aug 6, 2021
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Yep, so is the tl;dr that JZ could end up being regarded as one of the top 10 captains in the past 50 years of the NMFC, or he could end up in the worst 10 captains, and it all depends on what happens in 2023-25 after his captaincy is over?
 

Eggs11

Team Captain
Jul 18, 2021
367
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AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yep, so is the tl;dr that JZ could end up being regarded as one of the top 10 captains in the past 50 years of the NMFC, or he could end up in the worst 10 captains, and it all depends on what happens in 2023-25 after his captaincy is over?
There’s only been 12 captains over that period, so I suspect he will be both!
 

pupstar

Club Legend
Aug 12, 2017
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Ziebell's wooden spoon is really Brady and Luff's wooden spoon. List managers have so much more sway over the direction of clubs compared to captains, especially when you compare them to the heroes of the 70s and 90s. Imagining some statistician telling David Dench that he's going to lose 14 of his most senior footballers for a bunch of teenagers and has basically no say on the matter, he would probably walk out on the club.
You could probably say that about coaches as well to an extent. Not all coaches get a say as to who is recruited or not the final say in most cases.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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Aug 22, 2012
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Leadership/Team stability/harmony, club (media) perception, teammate respect, individual performances and longevity are all key indicators for a good professional skipper.

Ziebell ranks highly on most for mine.
 

Ry009

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Aug 26, 2002
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I'm bullish about our chances this year, however we could easily finish bottom 4 again.

I think that's a lot for someone like Jy right this t year.

Providing Jy continues on an upward trend, would be handing it over to him at the end of the year. I've been critical of Jack but at least 2021 he lead by example.

There's a lot of things that contribute to a good leadership and Jack deserves it despite us finishing the spoon. We has a solid second half of the year and we look know where near as bad as pre-Roos Melbourne. Jack deserves some credit for that.
 

7577969923

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 20, 2018
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Ziebell's wooden spoon is really Brady and Luff's wooden spoon. List managers have so much more sway over the direction of clubs compared to captains, especially when you compare them to the heroes of the 70s and 90s. Imagining some statistician telling David Dench that he's going to lose 14 of his most senior footballers for a bunch of teenagers and has basically no say on the matter, he would probably walk out on the club.

That's a bit like blaming the builder who has come in to renovate the house for it being uninhabitable. We finished second last with a strong downward trajectory when almost all of those 14 were on the list.