List Mgmt. 2022 Carlton Consensus Best 22

[Blue Bloods]

Doing this exercise really demonstrated to me the lack of good wing options we have. I wanted to vote for Mil Hanna.

Yes still a weakness on our list. Hoping LOB comes good as has the tools. But don’t trust him yet to vote for him.

Under our last few coaches we often had a defensive winger who dropped behind the ball to added a plus one in defence, someone who call fill this extra defender, often the loose man in defence is Doc/Williams. Voted Williams.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Ed: A wonderful servant of the footy club who deserves a heap of praise for the career he's carved out for himself. Seems pretty clear to me we're in the process of phasing him out but still think he has plenty to give and I expect him to play seniors most weeks.

Ed is an extremely tricky one, Ed plays as a high quality defensive tagger, who has become an accumulator at times and kicks crucial goals when they matter regularly... However this is the only role he can play, we trialed him this year in a few other and he failed miserably and could not adapt. It will be interesting Voss philosophy, very few AFL teams play with a tagger these days and with more depth in our midfield with the inclusions of Cerra & Hewett and the development of Dow, Kennedy & Cunningham and with the next group of Kemp, Stocker, Philp and Zac Williams all looking for midfield opportunities it really is hard to see how Ed plays many games this year.

The one thing we can be certain of, is that he will give himself every opportunity and will be as fit as a fiddle but IMO if we are to take the next steps forward Ed cant be playing more than 10 games in 2022.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Massive respect for the way he carried himself last year. Things haven't been easy for him at Carlton but he's never dropped his head.

Fought hard for and deserves his promotion back onto the senior list and there's a lesson there for someone like LOB. Shows that opportunities can present when you really knuckle down.

He'll play senior footy next year but for mine, like so many others on that list, I'm not sure he's in our top 6 mids and I feel like the addition of Hewett and Cerra may further restrict his midfield minutes.

As I've posted previously I'd love to see Kennedy spend significant time inside 50. He's slow but has a strong body and has terrific hands for someone his height and he's generally a very reliable kick for goal.

I pushed for it a while back when our talls were out injured and I think he could excel in that role. Maybe we'll see it more if Gov moves back and Charlie spends time up the ground.

I agree regarding Kennedy here, he could definitely play that link between forward and mids role.. think Tom Lynch of Adelaide circa 2015 but is probably fighting with JSOS for this position.

 

[Matty411]

I'm intrigued by the fact that LOB has almost equal votes than both Ed and ZW. Obviously on people's thinking as a specialist winger and one I hope gets plenty of chances this year like Kennedy to prove himself. Let's hope he goes that way rather than the way of Gibbo, who started in the side only to fade and get cut at season's end.

I'm very excited to see how Dow progressed this offseason with some better coaching and development. This is his most important offseason yet. If he doesn't come on with more consistency, he'll quickly be overshadowed and a spot given to another. He does have some of those explosive traits Vossy is keen to see, but just doesn't do it enough.

No more excuses for either lad. I'd love to see them both play 20 games next year and establish themselves.

Full disclosure: I voted for Dow and Kennedy with my thinking being that Dow gives us a POD and speed in the middle, and Kennedy offering spread and the 2nd best contested work behind Crippa - with the added string of being capable of throwing forward for a goal or chew. He's earned his spot in the Round 1 midfield rotation and may yet come on even further. Bam Bam is another I think Vossy will love working with.

 

[El Topo]

Dow, Williams, Stocker, Martin - disappointing that we're still waiting for so many would-be candidates to build a midfield tank

 

[Matty411]

Dow, Williams, Stocker, Martin - disappointing that we're still waiting for so many would-be candidates to build a midfield tank

I wonder whether Stock will be our Hodge-type. Never a pure midfielder and our main defensive enforcer. I'd love to see him as a pure mid in that group for the next five - eight years but I'm not sure who would take that spot down back... Boyd?

A midfield of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy, Dow and Stocker has a nice balance of contested, class and leadership. Low on speed but I think speed of ball movement and stoppage organisation outweighs an obsession to 'inject speed'. Dow coming on would give us a staple of that though.

 

[JrDr]

How many specialist wingers wingers similar to LOB did Port typically operate with this year? I imagine Voss played a major role in the way that they play and will bring a lot of the IP over with him. This will probably dictate if LOB is selected over Dow/Kennedy.

 

[El Topo]

I wonder whether Stock will be our Hodge-type. Never a pure midfielder and our main defensive enforcer. I'd love to see him as a pure mid in that group for the next five - eight years but I'm not sure who would take that spot down back... Boyd?

A midfield of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy, Dow and Stocker has a nice balance of contested, class and leadership. Low on speed but I think speed of ball movement and stoppage organisation outweighs an obsession to 'inject speed'. Dow coming on would give us a staple of that though.

I agree - we have a glut of a certain type of running HBF, Stocker can be more of a Hodge/Chris Johnson type enforcer/impact mid

 

[Matty411]

How many specialist wingers wingers similar to LOB did Port typically operate with this year? I imagine Voss played a major role in the way that they play and will bring a lot of the IP over with him. This will probably dictate if LOB is selected over Dow/Kennedy.

Amon was the big one from memory, who was outstanding. Seedsman for Crows had an even better year. If we can have ONE guy that is reliably good, that's the best we can hope for. You'd think we'd almost always have a guy floating from the middle or back/forward to a wing anyway.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

has been on an AFL list for 9 years, and hasnt built the tank or body reliable enough to be an AFL standard midfielder.. I think we can rule a line through him, he is a classy HFF but will never be the midfielder I think Gold Coast thought he would be when they first drafted him as a 17yo.

 

[Coona Blues]

Just about impossible to pick 6 from that group. Understand why we've done it but the reality is the midfield group extends well beyond that.

I have at least 10 of them in my best side and there are a few others on the cusp and who probably feature in other teams being put forward.

I'll prioritize players who are not only clear best 22 options but who probably don't have the flexibility in their game to be selected elsewhere.

1. Cripps
2. Walsh
3. Cerra
4. Hewett

That just about covers it. Basically we have a very clear top 4 and I have no ******* idea what happens next. I need more time to think.

Love it, especially the no ******* idea bit.

Totally agree. Some making midfield comparisons to premiers. We need to remember running machine Langdon covered one wing wit the likes of Brayshaw, Sparrow and the half backs pushing up covered the others.

We have so many options on the wings. Feel we need a similar model, one endurance, workhorse, dasher and use the other wing to rotate our growing number of quality mids through. So many options. We also have multiple quality backmen with a healthy dose of necessary skills to rotate through the wings. Williams, Stocker, Docherty, Kemp, even Saad.

Personally struggling with the numerous doubters of the list. Going to be a spectacular ride, watching the juggling act of melding a midfield team together while incorporating the youngsters as they likely demand a senior spot. Philp and Carroll,
maybe Kemp. Then the more established types “needing” a spot Stocker, Cuningham, Setterfield, Dow, Fisher, Fogarty, O’Brien, maybe Cottrell. Note, I have Kennedy locked in the 22 and Martin as the roving forward adding X Factor at ground level and in the air. I am well aware Ed Curnow and Newnes are not done with yet, but I am so damned excited about the list going forward, it is hard to include them.

I included Stocker in my selections, but realistically he will be part of the defence. I just see him as having greater value as a playmaker than the role he filled most of last season. Attacking/rebounding HBF is his go, but then we need to repurpose Saad, Williams, Newman and Docherty some how. Hell we have some depth. This best 22 exercise is nigh on impossible.

 

[Gointocarlton]

George Walshy Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

Crippa and Cerra

 

[BigBreakfast]

That's what I've been thinking too. Can we afford to play Cripps, Kennedy and Hewett in the same midfield without compromising our speed and ball movement?

Options though. Cuners would be great, Fisher too. Let’s hope one breaks through.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Love it, especially the no ******* idea bit.

Totally agree. Some making midfield comparisons to premiers. We need to remember running machine Langdon covered one wing wit the likes of Brayshaw, Sparrow and the half backs pushing up covered the others.

We have so many options on the wings. Feel we need a similar model, one endurance, workhorse, dasher and use the other wing to rotate our growing number of quality mids through. So many options. We also have multiple quality backmen with a healthy dose of necessary skills to rotate through the wings. Williams, Stocker, Docherty, Kemp, even Saad.

Personally struggling with the numerous doubters of the list. Going to be a spectacular ride, watching the juggling act of melding a midfield team together while incorporating the youngsters as they likely demand a senior spot. Philp and Carroll,
maybe Kemp. Then the more established types “needing” a spot Stocker, Cuningham, Setterfield, Dow, Fisher, Fogarty, O’Brien, maybe Cottrell. Note, I have Kennedy locked in the 22 and Martin as the roving forward adding X Factor at ground level and in the air. I am well aware Ed Curnow and Newnes are not done with yet, but I am so damned excited about the list going forward, it is hard to include them.

I included Stocker in my selections, but realistically he will be part of the defence. I just see him as having greater value as a playmaker than the role he filled most of last season. Attacking/rebounding HBF is his go, but then we need to repurpose Saad, Williams, Newman and Docherty some how. Hell we have some depth. This best 22 exercise is nigh on impossible.

This is where we differ. LOB is basically on his last legs, deliver of gtfo. Cotts? Please. Fish? Newnes? Done and no.

To me it’s Hewitt on the left and Doc on the right, maybe Carroll. Throw Walsh out there, no thanks. On ball only now. Options are limited in the Brayshaw/Langdon create width options.

 

[HyphensBack]

That's what I've been thinking too. Can we afford to play Cripps, Kennedy and Hewett in the same midfield without compromising our speed and ball movement?

Wouldn’t one be on the bench or resting forward
6 mids plus a ruck, 1 should be off or resting forward
or have the rules changed again

 

[HaydossJ]

Feel like we are slow. Rely on an inconsistent Dow\Cuners for burst speed. How does Cerra rate for leg speed?

Cerra has similar speed to Walsh

 

[Manhattanite]

Feel like we are slow. Rely on an inconsistent Dow\Cuners for burst speed. How does Cerra rate for leg speed?

We remain slow but another one who has been hampered is Philp - he would probably be the fastest on our list - just need him to get on the park and start playing and see what he can do




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[HaydossJ]

That's what I've been thinking too. Can we afford to play Cripps, Kennedy and Hewett in the same midfield without compromising our speed and ball movement?

No - Kennedy and Cripps can't play in the midfield together. Hewett's speed is okay and his endurance is great, so that's not an issue.

I like Kennedy, but he's a 23rd-26th player on the list IMO as he can come in and fill a number of roles. I'm not sure where he fits in the forward line and I don't want him in the middle taking minutes from Walsh Cerra and Cripps.

FWIW if everything comes together and we see improvement in LOB, I'm hoping for this mix:

R: Walsh, Cripps, Cerra
Ws: LOB, Hewett
I: Dow, Cunners**

PS how tf has Setters gone from midfielder of the future to behind Jack Carroll in voting in one season?

 

[HaydossJ]

We remain slow but another one who has been hampered is Philp - he would probably be the fastest on our list - just need him to get on the park and start playing and see what he can do




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Would love to sneak into training and catch a glimpse of Philpy - anyone aware of a secret entrance?

 

[Justnetime]

Paddy is the interesting one in the vote. On 2021 form he isn’t our 5th best mid but I suspect everyone is selecting him and crossing their fingers because if not core mid he is prolly a bust. He has no other skill set except mid.

Kennedy is better performed but has Cripps issues (one paced).

I like others have put Paddy in. I have zero confidence, and at some points in time think LoB is more likely to make it which is weird thinking in itself.

Paddy is showing an average kick, good hand pass, one way speed, weak tackling, very average AFL IQ, and the turning circle of Cripps proportions. But he has speed and a hand pass. What they tell Cripps to do based on Voss/Wines, they need to tell Paddy to do. That is the sick situation we find ourselves in. 5 maybe 6 players who can run inside mid role but only one slot. FMD Carlton.

 

[JrDr]

Time to move on, this one ain't changing!

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

I'm hoping to pick Kemp for the wing this time next year.

Based on his past best, hopes for his resurgence, and contract/$$, I went with Cripps.
Based on last year alone, I would have gone with Kennedy. We looked better when he was in the side, and he is much more useful resting forward.
It's pretty obvious though that we don't have room for both at once.

 

[JuddgementDay]

The midfield is settled already: Main 4 + Dow & Kennedy

So, I'm going to look at the defence.

This is going to be a problem for me as my best 22 is this:

FB: Plowman - Young - Marchbank​

HB: Saad - Weitering - Williams​

C: Docherty - Cripps - Cerra​

HF: Cuningham – C.Curnow - Martin​

FF: Motlop - McKay - Honey​

​

R: TDK - Walsh - Hewett​

Int: Kemp - JSOS – McGovern - Stocker​

Sub: Fisher​

So I've voted for Docherty and Stocker in the midfield as I had to find room for them in the 22 somehow, but now I don't know how to fit them in.

Ideally, my backline would have been
FB: Plowman - Young - Marchbank
HB: Saad - Weitering - Williams
Kemp as interchange (and Stocker too both of them can cover mid/def)

Now that Dow & Kennedy has been selected, who can I drop out?
Surely, Docherty (if fit) and Stocker needs to be in the best 22.

 

[katmanblue]

This is where we differ. LOB is basically on his last legs, deliver of gtfo. Cotts? Please. Fish? Newnes? Done and no.

To me it’s Hewitt on the left and Doc on the right, maybe Carroll. Throw Walsh out there, no thanks. On ball only now. Options are limited in the Brayshaw/Langdon create width options.

Also Philp as a wing option.

 

[Jeremias]

I can't believe LOB has the same number of votes as Ed.

You people are absolutely crazy.