List Mgmt. 2022 Carlton Consensus Best 22

[Metalcrusher]

Yep. We've all had reason to be negative here over my time here, but the logical is to be positive now.

I used to have many many players i didn't want picked on a Thursday night......then i used to have quite a lot of players i didn't want picked on a Thursday night.....then i had several players i didn't want picked on a Thursday night.....then i had a few players i didn't want picked on a Thursday night.....now, i just have a couple i would be kinda scratchy about being picked ahead of others, but largely.......we are pretty much deckchair free and very raw kid free.

*Gee i wish ALL selection was still on a Thursday night still lol

I haven't got any boogeymen left around that i dread getting picked. Just a bunch of quality players in and nearing their prime, a big bunch of 20-24yo's competing to be the "make-it's" and the "not quite make-it's", some exciting youth under this, and some required depth players.

Not saying it's a Grand Final team/list, not saying it's not a Grand Final team/list, but i am saying it's a quality list that can now compete with everybody. With the next 6 years only presenting upside growth.

We have a whole new coaching panel, which shouldn't be underestimated. I know Carlton peeps are out of patience but a completely new coaching list is almost unprecedented i would think. It would have been great if this list was going in with either a successful 3rd year Teague or Voss regime, but that didn't turn out to be.

If it clicks quickly, which it can, this year will be exciting. If it takes a while to meld, i'm a bit more patient than most and next year we should be better set to go again.

But the list build has been completed. We started in the absolute pits. Stuck to the tasks through all the predictable heavy seas, rode the bumps, and have come out the other side with a finally competitive AFL quality list.

Go Vossy and Hansen and Clarke and Hamill and O'Keefe and Power.....and go Russell. The final piece of the cake is the players realising that they are in the fair dinkum part of the comp now and not the play area at the bottom and start doing the offield and onfield requirements that make Russell's job doable(combined with some luck).

Awesome post TW ...

 

[Metalcrusher]

Also Matty411 you have done a bloody solid job seeing this through and putting it together. Well done mate. Been great debate, discussion and somehow managed to remain on topic.

 

[Matty411]

Also Matty411 you have done a bloody solid job seeing this through and putting it together. Well done mate. Been great debate, discussion and somehow managed to remain on topic.

Thanks, MC. It's a nice exercise to run each year and to look back historically.

 

[Stamos]

You saying he’ll be delisted after next season?

Not necessarily, but he would want to improve again this year.

It’s more we weren’t going to chop someone else in order to upgrade him to the senior list this year.

 

[Bletch]

You saying he’ll be delisted after next season?

List is imbalanced - need a couple more KPP's, and we're over-endowed with small fwds:
Fogarty, Martin, Fisher, Cuningham, Durdin, Philp, Honey, Owies, Motlop.

Sure some of these will compete to play through the middle, but you'd think we'll reduce this group of 9 to around 6 or 7. Of these, Fogarty, Cuningham, Durdin, Honey and Owies are out of contract in 2022. Pressure's on!

 

[Justnetime]

The sub vote really shows Cottrell is dead and was lucky to be retained from a supporter point of view at least.

Been around long enough. Had enough exposure and only a couple of votes.

Poor list mgmt from my point of view. Ed can cover his role until we find a draftee winger. In his place we should have had another tall to cover injuries. We got caught short last year on KPP depth.

 

[Jeremias]

Poor list mgmt from my point of view. Ed can cover his role until we find a draftee winger. In his place we should have had another tall to cover injuries. We got caught short last year on KPP depth.

Why is taking or not taking a tall late in the draft the determining factor in the quality of list management?

How many talls were taken after pick 56? What if none of them make the grade?

We'll add another tall before the start of next season and it seems pretty clear we believe next year's draft is stronger.

 

[Justnetime]

Why is taking or not taking a tall late in the draft the determining factor in the quality of list management?

How many talls were taken after pick 56? What if none of them make the grade?

We'll add another tall before the start of next season and it seems pretty clear we believe next year's draft is stronger.

Cottrell offers elite running, average kick, low AFL IQ. He plays quite well in game1, ok or average in game 2 then disappears. Given we have Ed Curnow who offers the exact same traits but is a better player. it doesn’t make much sense in 2022 as Ed is moving to a cover or backup role. So then Cottrell is a backup to the backup player. Draftwise, If not a tall, use the late pick for a winger prospect. If not that get creative on future pick swaps to have improved draft hand in 2021.

Carlton have been diabolical for 20 years. We have been laughed at and ridiculed. As a club I don’t think we can leave it to luck about playing finals In 2022. If Weitering goes down….if Young doesn’t stand up….our season is probably over and the pressure on Voss goes intense.

Im not a talent scout but I’d have liked the club to find a tall ….someone like a schlensog or whatever his name is or anyone else for that matter that Austin does rate that could cover the situation where Young doesn’t come thru and cost us top 8. I know Young was meant to cover Jones/Weitering…but not enough cover in my books when it’s Cottrell vs Tall. Cottrell is surplus to requirements.

On our list I’d have rather a schlensog type covering for Young that a Cottrell covering for Ed who is basically a backup player. We have Philip, Carroll, Kemp, Newnes as well. We simply don’t need Cottrell on our list.

 

[Coona Blues]

Cottrell offers elite running, average kick, low AFL IQ. He plays quite well in game1, ok or average in game 2 then disappears. Given we have Ed Curnow who offers the exact same traits but is a better player. it doesn’t make much sense in 2022 as Ed is moving to a cover or backup role. So then Cottrell is a backup to the backup player. Draftwise, If not a tall, use the late pick for a winger prospect. If not that get creative on future pick swaps to have improved draft hand in 2021.

Carlton have been diabolical for 20 years. We have been laughed at and ridiculed. As a club I don’t think we can leave it to luck about playing finals In 2022. If Weitering goes down….if Young doesn’t stand up….our season is probably over and the pressure on Voss goes intense.

Im not a talent scout but I’d have liked the club to find a tall ….someone like a schlensog or whatever his name is or anyone else for that matter that Austin does rate that could cover the situation where Young doesn’t come thru and cost us top 8. I know Young was meant to cover Jones/Weitering…but not enough cover in my books when it’s Cottrell vs Tall. Cottrell is surplus to requirements.

On our list I’d have rather a schlensog type covering for Young that a Cottrell covering for Ed who is basically a backup player. We have Philip, Carroll, Kemp, Newnes as well. We simply don’t need Cottrell on our list.

The post you are quoting is correct. Your fears smack of shell shock. We are moving out of the era you allude to. Personally would not have blinked if Cotts was cut as I believe the likes of Carroll and Philp will go straight past him, and am confident LOB is already along with other options. The list managers made a value judgement. Clearly Cottrell brings plenty to the training dynamic of the team. Sets the standards running and his heart and soul efforts would be uplifting for the group. Given that both Young and McDonald, who seems forgotten by many along with other talls like Marchbank, Kemp and Parks give options for defensive cover, we are not bereft. We clearly budgeted for young Akuei as a rookie developing as well.

I considered Schlensog pre draft when he had some putting him forward. Clearly there was a reason he was cut at Geelong, so I am happy to trust the judgement of 18 list management teams who overlooked him as a free hit. I do not have a problem with the team choosing to have a consolidation and assessment year. With a season to assess Young and McDonald in a modified structure as well as the fit of Kemp and hopefully a fit Marchbank, we also have a year to assess the trajectory of Akuei. We may well have the necessary players, and if we don’t, next year’s draft class looks much better for key position prospects. There is of course also the chance that other talls not afforded opportunity due to Covid lockdowns may put a case for selection as overagers.

I agree that Cottrell could have been expendable, however we don’t need to grab an otherwise unwanted player just because he is a key defender, if not good enough. It is a great move grabbing Jesse Glass-McCasker for our VFL team, improving our structure and maybe offering a mature option if he can step up.

We have enough options for now and the pickings were slim. Let the year play out.

 

[Justnetime]

The post you are quoting is correct. Your fears smack of shell shock. We are moving out of the era you allude to. Personally would not have blinked if Cotts was cut as I believe the likes of Carroll and Philp will go straight past him, and am confident LOB is already along with other options. The list managers made a value judgement. Clearly Cottrell brings plenty to the training dynamic of the team. Sets the standards running and his heart and soul efforts would be uplifting for the group. Given that both Young and McDonald, who seems forgotten by many along with other talls like Marchbank, Kemp and Parks give options for defensive cover, we are not bereft. We clearly budgeted for young Akuei as a rookie developing as well.

I considered Schlensog pre draft when he had some putting him forward. Clearly there was a reason he was cut at Geelong, so I am happy to trust the judgement of 18 list management teams who overlooked him as a free hit. I do not have a problem with the team choosing to have a consolidation and assessment year. With a season to assess Young and McDonald in a modified structure as well as the fit of Kemp and hopefully a fit Marchbank, we also have a year to assess the trajectory of Akuei. We may well have the necessary players, and if we don’t, next year’s draft class looks much better for key position prospects. There is of course also the chance that other talls not afforded opportunity due to Covid lockdowns may put a case for selection as overagers.

I agree that Cottrell could have been expendable, however we don’t need to grab an otherwise unwanted player just because he is a key defender, if not good enough. It is a great move grabbing Jesse Glass-McCasker for our VFL team, improving our structure and maybe offering a mature option if he can step up.

We have enough options for now and the pickings were slim. Let the year play out.

It’s a good discussion point.

Id still respond about Cottrell that Walsh does the training standards thing but a lot better. And Ed brings that as well. I think these days you can’t carry anyone and I do think Austin is carrying Cottrell on our list when there isn’t a need. A need that could be better spent elsewhere.

Hewett replaces Ed. And Cottrell is Ed’s backup. Puts Cottrell down at number 3 in the selection process for 2022 for preferred role. Not just that, if Philp, Carroll, Kemp, Lob are physically fit, the club will want to play those guys ahead of Cottrell on a wing. If they are desperate for a win, I suggest they play Newnes ahead of him as well. And then he is 50/50 with Williamson as well.

Replacing Cottrell with another tall option is my preferred option. Even with Jones playing in 2022.

McDonald and Young have been recruited as squad players to cover injuries. They haven’t been recruited for best 22. This is how Austin would look at it….not us supporters or the coach. Their contract would say as much. Both of these players may come on like Jones himself but that isn’t something Austin is planning on With McDonald. Maybe with Young but maybe Young buys him time.

For the last three years we have raged on about JSoS vs McGovern. Jones is older and he is controversial. Elite one on one defending mixed up with complete stupidness in kicking down the corridor and finding himself stranded. Jones is a complete mix of awesomeness and crazy. Where is the challenger for his spot?

Austin hasn’t found one and that is what I think he should have done. At the expense of lots of players over the last 2 years but definitely over Cottrell In 2022.

Personally I think he should have found a competitive defender not a squad player but I guess money/contracts has cost that option. So if money is the issue then another interim squad player like Schlensog in case Young bottles it. McDonald can go back but im sure we need forward cover as well.

I’d feel safer with one more tall over Young and McDonald because you have to remember their level when out of form. E.g. Casbault last year was completely out of form and that is a woeful sight in footy. His best form scrapes in.

 

[Coona Blues]

It’s a good discussion point.

Id still respond about Cottrell that Walsh does the training standards thing but a lot better. And Ed brings that as well. I think these days you can’t carry anyone and I do think Austin is carrying Cottrell on our list when there isn’t a need. A need that could be better spent elsewhere.

Hewett replaces Ed. And Cottrell is Ed’s backup. Puts Cottrell down at number 3 in the selection process for 2022 for preferred role. Not just that, if Philp, Carroll, Kemp, Lob are physically fit, the club will want to play those guys ahead of Cottrell on a wing. If they are desperate for a win, I suggest they play Newnes ahead of him as well. And then he is 50/50 with Williamson as well.

Replacing Cottrell with another tall option is my preferred option. Even with Jones playing in 2022.

McDonald and Young have been recruited as squad players to cover injuries. They haven’t been recruited for best 22. This is how Austin would look at it….not us supporters or the coach. Their contract would say as much. Both of these players may come on like Jones himself but that isn’t something Austin is planning on With McDonald. Maybe with Young but maybe Young buys him time.

For the last three years we have raged on about JSoS vs McGovern. Jones is older and he is controversial. Elite one on one defending mixed up with complete stupidness in kicking down the corridor and finding himself stranded. Jones is a complete mix of awesomeness and crazy. Where is the challenger for his spot?

Austin hasn’t found one and that is what I think he should have done. At the expense of lots of players over the last 2 years but definitely over Cottrell In 2022.

Personally I think he should have found a competitive defender not a squad player but I guess money/contracts has cost that option. So if money is the issue then another interim squad player like Schlensog in case Young bottles it. McDonald can go back but im sure we need forward cover as well.

I’d feel safer with one more tall over Young and McDonald because you have to remember their level when out of form. E.g. Casbault last year was completely out of form and that is a woeful sight in footy. His best form scrapes in.

“Squad Player?” You have an interesting perception. I am certain Young was recruited was a prospective best 22 player. The young man has all of the necessary talent. A bit of game sense is really all he requires to be a quality KPD. I don’t think for one minute he was recruited as a squad player by your inference. Other than injury, McDonald was also an inspired acquisition. Bore the brunt of the Melbourne defensive rehash, with May and Lever preferred. Was adequate at least as a KPD, no star, but up to the level. His early season cameos as forward and ruck relief were also impressive, so has multiple strings to his bow.

You seemingly do not rate those players, I do. The fact remains there were no obvious targets with our draft hand to recruit to our list. How would you feel if we sold the farm for a KPD and Dom Akuei becomes Aliir Aliir Mark 2 in 18 months. Patience grasshopper.

I understand your opinion of Cottrell, but his rookie spot was not going to give us a best 22 key defender. Again can only assume team dynamics were considered with his retention. The bloke gives heart and soul, the cliched bleeds Navy Blue, I do not have issue with him getting another year. It is rumoured strongly Teague had little time for the lesser lights, so it is conceivable our retained development staff Power and O’Keefe see something they would like explored. We support from a distance and it is easy to form inaccurate opinions and make assumptions.

 

[TerryWallet]

I don't normally get into conversations about the last list spot on a list. So many connotations and reasons why who might get it, and it is nearly always irrelevant anyway.

I'd just add to the convo by saying i did the Board phantom draft for the Swans this year and they are even in more need of a KPD type than us. They didn't bother getting one either and have opted instead for Paddy McCartin for numerous reasons as a break glass coverage option. Kinnear Beatson bluntly, but politely, canned them as a group about a week before the draft. Probably Gibcus aside.

The KPD's just weren't there. Next year they apparently are. When you recruit a tall, you make it one you want to invest the time in.

 

[Justnetime]

It is rumoured strongly Teague had little time for the lesser lights, so it is conceivable our retained development staff Power and O’Keefe see something they would like explored. We support from a distance and it is easy to form inaccurate opinions and make assumptions.

I don’t mind the rest as a point of view but the bolded bit is a bit off the mark. My opinion of Cottrell is completely on field. Doesn’t find much of the ball, low AFL IQ, runs a lot, probably defensively covers other players a lot like Cripps maybe that we can’t know about. Not a great user of the ball. No weapon except running and his game impact fades each week he plays. Mostly others better and we don’t need.

The squad bit is a bit harsh for some on both McDonald and Young. Doggies have very average tall defenders and he struggled to hold down a key defensive post. Their words are he is a tall non contact intercept defender. They mostly preferred more contested tall defenders in their 22. Liam Jones is a contested 1 on 1 beast so doubt Young was a short term threat in Austin’s eyes but just cover.

Mcdonald in early 2021 was left out of the side in preference to an underdone, injured fumbling Casbault. Casbault himself a squad player who just luckily found a best 22 spot at Carlton due to injuries and prior to that a very weak forward list. It’s a tough view for sure. McDonald was not recruited to ultimately replace McKay or Charlie. JSoS is a different discussion.

 

[Coona Blues]

I don’t mind the rest as a point of view but the bolded bit is a bit off the mark. My opinion of Cottrell is completely on field. Doesn’t find much of the ball, low AFL IQ, runs a lot, probably defensively covers other players a lot like Cripps maybe that we can’t know about. Not a great user of the ball. No weapon except running and his game impact fades each week he plays. Mostly others better and we don’t need.

The squad bit is a bit harsh for some on both McDonald and Young. Doggies have very average tall defenders and he struggled to hold down a key defensive post. Their words are he is a tall non contact intercept defender. They mostly preferred more contested tall defenders in their 22. Liam Jones is a contested 1 on 1 beast so doubt Young was a short term threat in Austin’s eyes but just cover.

Mcdonald in early 2021 was left out of the side in preference to an underdone, injured fumbling Casbault. Casbault himself a squad player who just luckily found a best 22 spot at Carlton due to injuries and prior to that a very weak forward list. It’s a tough view for sure. McDonald was not recruited to ultimately replace McKay or Charlie. JSoS is a different discussion.

The bolded was a general statement, not a personal dig. I don’t particularly mind you considering McDonald as a “squad player” as that was loosely what he was recruited as. No reason he cannot elevate beyond that though if a vacancy occurs (and it potentially has). Correction, he was not left out in preference to Levi, he succumbed to injury very early in the season. I sincerely hope his retention indicates that he is over the issues.

That is me done, said what was needed. You are entitled to an opinion. The club has made a decision, let’s allow it to play out.

 

[Justnetime]

I don't normally get into conversations about the last list spot on a list. So many connotations and reasons why who might get it, and it is nearly always irrelevant anyway.

I'd just add to the convo by saying i did the Board phantom draft for the Swans this year and they are even in more need of a KPD type than us. They didn't bother getting one either and have opted instead for Paddy McCartin for numerous reasons as a break glass coverage option. Kinnear Beatson bluntly, but politely, canned them as a group about a week before the draft. Probably Gibcus aside.

The KPD's just weren't there. Next year they apparently are. When you recruit a tall, you make it one you want to invest the time in.

It is a fair point you make. I don’t really have a perfect counter argument for that. I’d grasp at three straws, one that I don’t think they can win a flag until they address what I think is a weakness. But that is an argument going nowhere. My second opinion is ltitle better than the first in that they play their home on a tight SCG ground. This lends itself to a lot of congested play and third man up defence. Thirdly, we know each list has different goals so there will be difference. And that point could be applied to Cottrell and Carlton (circular argument).

Even though I’ve debated hard, I’ve really only said something quite simple. I don’t think there is a real need for Cottrell, and we could have chanced that low list spot on some defensive cover in event Young isn’t the answer. Or even McDonald.

It isn’t a crazy notion and is roughly what is being said in the poll above. For a guy on our list for numerous years, no one wants him on field ‘when’ put against other similar options.

On the quality side of things I have to bow to the draft results that clubs left a few Tall’s behind, and I have read everyone say about next years Tall’s. I was not nominating a tall draftee at all As they cannot help us in 2022.

I was nominating a tall defender that ‘could help us this year‘. Someone experienced or with 2 years already in the system. Cottrell is a depth player. I’d rather another depth tall who could actually play if called upon. Not outlandish.

 

[Jeremias]

Cottrell offers elite running, average kick, low AFL IQ. He plays quite well in game1, ok or average in game 2 then disappears. Given we have Ed Curnow who offers the exact same traits but is a better player. it doesn’t make much sense in 2022 as Ed is moving to a cover or backup role. So then Cottrell is a backup to the backup player. Draftwise, If not a tall, use the late pick for a winger prospect. If not that get creative on future pick swaps to have improved draft hand in 2021.

Ed and Cottrell are not similar footballers. Both are elite runners but that's pretty much the end of the comparison.

The draft was widely considered compromised and not a particularly good one. There's a reason we saw so few new players actually enter the system.

Carlton have been diabolical for 20 years. We have been laughed at and ridiculed. As a club I don’t think we can leave it to luck about playing finals In 2022. If Weitering goes down….if Young doesn’t stand up….our season is probably over and the pressure on Voss goes intense.

Yeah if we lose Weitering we'll be under the pump. Am certain the same can be said of most clubs across the competition.

Leave it to luck about playing finals? I am not sure what that means. Are we more likely to have made finals in 2022 by taking a tall over Cottrell? If we took 4 talls would that have given us 4x the luck?

Im not a talent scout but I’d have liked the club to find a tall ….someone like a schlensog or whatever his name is or anyone else for that matter that Austin does rate that could cover the situation where Young doesn’t come thru and cost us top 8. I know Young was meant to cover Jones/Weitering…but not enough cover in my books when it’s Cottrell vs Tall. Cottrell is surplus to requirements.

We will add another tall before the start of next season.

Austin clearly didn't rate the talls this year and given how few were taken he was clearly not alone. In fact pretty clearly he didn't rate this draft, with a strong preference to target next year's.

On our list I’d have rather a schlensog type covering for Young that a Cottrell covering for Ed who is basically a backup player. We have Philip, Carroll, Kemp, Newnes as well. We simply don’t need Cottrell on our list.

I am not sure why you are running with this notion that Cottrell is cover for Ed. They play completely different positions, and have played enough together in the same side to know this clearly is not the case.

 

[Justnetime]

Ed and Cottrell are not similar footballers. Both are elite runners but that's pretty much the end of the comparison.

The draft was widely considered compromised and not a particularly good one. There's a reason we saw so few new players actually enter the system.



Yeah if we lose Weitering we'll be under the pump. Am certain the same can be said of most clubs across the competition.

Leave it to luck about playing finals? I am not sure what that means. Are we more likely to have made finals in 2022 by taking a tall over Cottrell? If we took 4 talls would that have given us 4x the luck?



We will add another tall before the start of next season.

Austin clearly didn't rate the talls this year and given how few were taken he was clearly not alone. In fact pretty clearly he didn't rate this draft, with a strong preference to target next year's.



I am not sure why you are running with this notion that Cottrell is cover for Ed. They play completely different positions, and have played enough together in the same side to know this clearly is not the case.

On Ed and Cottrell. Just because they have both been played in the same side and in different position doesn’t mean a lot. If you watch footy and you focus on ‘traits’ then there are lots of similarities. Both better off in negating roles. Both have very poor hurt factor going forward. Yes, both can run. Both can’t really kick to advantage. Both can’t take contested grabs, only use their running to space to mark the ball. Cottrell can’t get the ball as much as Ed but then Ed got the coveted midfield role that just happens to rack up possessions. Cottrell has never deserved the role for sure and is younger. Both of their decision making is either average or poor.

Both don’t have traits to play half back. Both don’t have the attacking flair to hold down a wing spot long term (just cover). Maybe they could both play defensive half forward but then it comes to preference versus other players. Both could play run with roles but Hewett again looks preferred. But they both have traits for negating run with role is Hewett gets injured.

Leaving the tall debate for just a second to see if there is a point to be made about Cottrell specifically.

Negating midfield role
Hewett
Ed
Sometimes no tagger needed
Cottrell

Wing ( not in order except Cottrell)
Walsh, Cerra at times
LoB
Ed Curnow
Newnes
Hewett
Philp
Kemp
(any of Martin, Kennedy, Fisher spending 5 mins there)
Cottrell / Newman / Williamson

Small or defensive forward
Owies
Fisher
Durdin
Motlop
Martin
Honey
Ed curnow
Cottrell

Small defender (can’t be bothered. No)

My argument is that when compared to what we have on the list, I don’t think we need him at all As he is too far down the pecking order for most roles. And the negating midfielder is something I hope we don’t need very often if we are to win a flag.

 

[Justnetime]

This ends up tough stating the obvious. Cottrell has received 2 votes out of 300 supporter votes for a sub vote where you can nominate 4 different players. This is after a best 22 vote where he didn’t really rate a mention anywher.

Simply translating the vote. some just don’t like the meaning behind the vote.

 

[TerryWallet]

It is a fair point you make. I don’t really have a perfect counter argument for that. I’d grasp at three straws, one that I don’t think they can win a flag until they address what I think is a weakness. But that is an argument going nowhere. My second opinion is ltitle better than the first in that they play their home on a tight SCG ground. This lends itself to a lot of congested play and third man up defence. Thirdly, we know each list has different goals so there will be difference. And that point could be applied to Cottrell and Carlton (circular argument).

Even though I’ve debated hard, I’ve really only said something quite simple. I don’t think there is a real need for Cottrell, and we could have chanced that low list spot on some defensive cover in event Young isn’t the answer. Or even McDonald.

It isn’t a crazy notion and is roughly what is being said in the poll above. For a guy on our list for numerous years, no one wants him on field ‘when’ put against other similar options.

On the quality side of things I have to bow to the draft results that clubs left a few Tall’s behind, and I have read everyone say about next years Tall’s. I was not nominating a tall draftee at all As they cannot help us in 2022.

I was nominating a tall defender that ‘could help us this year‘. Someone experienced or with 2 years already in the system. Cottrell is a depth player. I’d rather another depth tall who could actually play if called upon. Not outlandish.

Yeah, no your point about Cotterell is definately not outlandish at all. I think nearly all would agree he is lucky to have survived.

Personally, imo the decision made was that the club acknowledged that they eff'ed up to the point that they sacked the whole coaching panel, so it would hardly be fair to dump a young player under that premise. SPS was probably moved on mutually for what you would acknowledge we needed in Young, and then everyone getting a clean shot under hopefully a competant, invigorating new footy dept group.

The whole emphasis on the pre-season has been "Together". Everyone gets their shot with a clean-ish slate, and at the end of the year decisions will be made and we will be active in a better draft. A strategy that has merit imo. We must meld this group as much as possible. As said above, Cottrell won't play much seniors probably, but he will work hard, train hard and play reserves footy hard. It's still a quality we need on the list.

Jones did leave us in the lurch, but it's never good to jump at shadows for a LM imo.

And we have got Lieww training with us.

 

[Justnetime]

Good post Terry. I’ve master-debated Cottrell to death. Having said it all it looks like he is trying his guts out in a move to keep his dream alive. I can respect that for sure and hope he can have an impact for us.

I think I should leave the second debate on talls alone. I will just hope that Marchbank, Charlie, Kemp can all go through 22 uninjured As their history isn’t great. A reason for more tall cover in itself.

 

[Stamos]

My opinion of Cottrell is completely on field. Doesn’t find much of the ball, low AFL IQ, runs a lot, probably defensively covers other players a lot like Cripps maybe that we can’t know about.

These are things are opposite.

Cottrell, unlike Ed Curnow, is a genuine wingman. They are very different players.
Whether he makes it or not, he's got a 1 year rookie contract to show something.

 

[Justnetime]

These are things are opposite.

Cottrell, unlike Ed Curnow, is a genuine wingman. They are very different players.
Whether he makes it or not, he's got a 1 year rookie contract to show something.

The big hitters are out. Terry, Jeremias and now Stamos. If Arrow joins in and agrees with you Stamos, I’m completely cooked and he hates my guts. I think he hates yours too so would be great to see you team up.

You’ve picked a nice edge piece of information to debate on and something that has such a small part to play in the discussion that has gone on. That is, we could have used Cottrells spot to better effect from a list mgmt perspective.

Cottrell has shown zero signs IMO of being a genuine ‘AFL’ wingman. Maybe Except he can run up and down the field a lot. Can I turn this back on you and you explain what traits he has that make him a bonafide wingman? Because if we are left with hard two way running that is basically Ed Curnow. Also do you have him ahead of Walsh, Cerra, LoB, Newnes, a fit Docherty, Hewett. Ahead of other longer shot players in Philp and Kemp.

A low AFL IQ and being directly instructed to cover opponent midfield rebounds because Cripps, Dow, Murphy couldn’t/wouldn’t is not an opposite. They can both be true.

 

[Jimmae]

McGovern and Newman? I hate it here

Not worth wasting an emergency spot on Pittonet while Young is in the team.

 

[Arr0w]

The big hitters are out. Terry, Jeremias and now Stamos. If Arrow joins in and agrees with you Stamos, I’m completely cooked and he hates my guts. I think he hates yours too so would be great to see you team up.

You’ve picked a nice edge piece of information to debate on and something that has such a small part to play in the discussion that has gone on. That is, we could have used Cottrells spot to better effect from a list mgmt perspective.

Cottrell has shown zero signs IMO of being a genuine ‘AFL’ wingman. Maybe Except he can run up and down the field a lot. Can I turn this back on you and you explain what traits he has that make him a bonafide wingman? Because if we are left with hard two way running that is basically Ed Curnow. Also do you have him ahead of Walsh, Cerra, LoB, Newnes, a fit Docherty, Hewett. Ahead of other longer shot players in Philp and Kemp.

A low AFL IQ and being directly instructed to cover opponent midfield rebounds because Cripps, Dow, Murphy couldn’t/wouldn’t is not an opposite. They can both be true.

I don't hate anyone's guts

Given contract statuses, I would have released Cotts and targeted a B/C grade KPD

 

[Metalcrusher]

I don't hate anyone's guts

Given contract statuses, I would have released Cotts and targeted a B/C grade KPD

I hate you campaigner hooks.