List Mgmt. 2022 Carlton Consensus Best 22

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Kreuuuzeurns

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 25, 2013
7,710
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Carlton
I would say McDonald has very little to offer and is nothing more than emergency depth until we hit next year's draft/trade period. I would be very happy to be proven wrong though and I hope he has a great season.

At the same age McDonald had played 62 games and looked a solid full back. Far more than anything Young has done. IMO he is very realiable hence his retention.

Young should get first go for his potential. At 202cm he could be anything. But I wouldn’t rule out Oscar.
 

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ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
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Why not best 2?

Because Pitto & TDK should never be played in the same side again.. Neither TDK or Pitt are good enough forwards to hold down a spot up forward and end up statues that the opposition use to play through. Its happened sooo many times and I am hoping Voss is smarter than Teague and see's this.. JSOS was a more than capable back up when called upon and he should be our 2nd ruck option.
 

woof39

Debutant
Oct 25, 2020
100
510
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Because Pitto & TDK should never be played in the same side again.. Neither TDK or Pitt are good enough forwards to hold down a spot up forward and end up statues that the opposition use to play through. Its happened sooo many times and I am hoping Voss is smarter than Teague and see's this.. JSOS was a more than capable back up when called upon and he should be our 2nd ruck option.

Not sure about this. I think your point makes a lot of sense but I'm sticking with TDK as back up/forward at this very early stage. Here's why:

- I am not sure if he has really been given a chance on a consistent basis to prove he can play a role up forward (in the last 2 years). I am not sure if we as fans have been patient enough with his development when in reality, it just takes time so his potential alone makes him a valid option.

- Other teams playing through our statues was (hopefully) a team based issue so with a better defensive system and coaching in general, its worth a look.

- TDK has shown that he has some X factor in the air and with his size and athleticism, is very hard to match up on. He doesn't need to be a star but be able to play a role. With Harry and Charlie in the team (again hopefully), he has the opportunity to fly under the radar and cause lots of problems for other teams.

- Give him a full pre season (which he didn't have last year) with another year of development, we should start to see him play with more confidence and see him trust his body more.

- Although Jack was valuable as the 2nd ruck option for a few games, I question whether or not this is a sustainable option for an entire year. It would have been fascinating to see him continue to play that role for a longer period. Maybe Jack as a 3rd option for something different is a better way to go. Not sure.
 

Coona Blues

Director of Coaching
Nov 3, 2011
3,642
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Come on Mirkov ;)
Training would be a spectacular watch at the moment. Big Pitto free from his niggling injuries and better able to cover the ground. Short back and sides TDK free from injury, a little more physically ready and bulked up jumping over his team mates and presenting in attack and around the ground. Then there is our 210cm athletic tyro Mirkov. Too tall for Pitto and what a sight would he and TDK be, leaping in to the stratosphere to compete in ruck drills. Who gets first hands, who excels at hit outs to advantage? So many posters here underestimate big Alex (date of birth 17/11/1999). The bloke is 22, not 19. TDK is a mere 5 months older. Admittedly Alex has not had the same levels of conditioning, "seasoning" so to speak, but is not necessarily far behind in the maturity stakes.

The other question is who else joins in the drills? Young would likely do some minutes, and big Harry was used in the Hawkins forward ruck role late last season. Then there are our pinch hit options JSOS who did a great job when released around the ground, while not being uncompetitive at the taps. The other of course is McGovern who could be required to pinch hit if chosen as that lone third forward.

We are spoiled for options rather than bereft as some would like to think. We have the option of a single ruck set up with realistically Young or OMac providing back up along with JSOS around the ground and Harry deep forward, which would be workable, particularly if Young is in the 22 and we have a viable third tall playing in defence in case our no. 1 goes down mid game. Pittonet is a far more serious option than some would think, his work rate and combative nature should not be underestimated. While not offering viable quantity, or key position potential, he was not useless up forward when the need arose.

I love TDK and definitely have him number one as the season approaches, but would like him to produce more up forward. He has the tools to be a threat and kicked some big bags as an underager in a key forward post. I am quietly confident Mirkov will take massive steps in the coming season and become a serious option. If that was to be the case it is salivating to think of the potential hit out dominance of a mature Mirkov and TDK combination. We could have unparalleled silver service to our midfielders. The cameos of big Alex in the twos were on another level for clean delivery to his ground players.

Loving the prospect of big Josh Cripps as a forward option and viable second ruck. His agility test was "elite". I earlier stated that while it is impossible to argue the eye test has him as a big lumberer, this may be more optics than actuality. His highlights show consistent separation on the lead up forward, whether craft or pace I am unsure, but it was evident. The clip of him contesting centre bounce then spreading to the near side wing to provide an option (which was used) is also impressive. Certainly it was playing as an overager in Colts and the ability to step up needs proving, but I am optomistic. I liken his physical appearance to Sean Darcy, Freo ruckman who has pretty much stamped himself as the next big thing in the ruck ranks. A huge, podgy junior, Darcy is still a huge man who looks like a cumbersome lumberer, but in reality is anything but. Really hoping this is the case.

Many posters forget our list position, Weiters just turned 24, with Harry and Jack not there yet. While same draft Charlie is 25 in February. Youngy is 23 this month, with as mentioned above TDK and Mirkov just 22, then utility Kemp is just 20. Our "older" talls are Pittonet (25), McDonald (25), and Marchbank (25 today). McGovern is 27 if we want to include him here. Then we have 19 year old Dom Akuei developing on the rookie list.

Providing we maintain McKay and C.Curnow and keep them fit, we do not need to draft a serious replacement for the best part of five years. Similarly with Weiters in defence. Obviously we need Young, McDonald, Kemp or Akuei to become a bankable KPD or are in need of one through draft or trade. I have a decent level of faith that we will build a structure that will be more than adequate with the players we currently have. Voss coming to us from Port Adelaide, who until acquiring Aliir played Jonas and McKenzie in key posts fairly effectively. Similarly Hanson from Bulldogs who effectively used Wood consistently as an undersized KPD. I am not as concerned by our perceived shortage of "spine" players as some others. What we do need though is a viable tall forward in the twos to provide a reasonable facsimile of our senior forward structure to enhance development.

With that age profile we can realistically maintain a youngish tall forward/pinch hitting ruck option who does not necessarily have to smash down the door for senior selection. Ideally they need to be physically capable of competing at the top level should the need arise. For mine Josh Cripps fits the bill perfectly on profile. He is still studying at Uni from reports, so a three year period on the list providing that option would be ideal given our list profile. With a bit of luck he will exceed the parameters I am suggesting. In no way am I setting a ceiling. The suggestions through recent months of needing more mature ruck depth etc, I see off base. An each way bet of a developing solid back up, who could also elevate to push for best 22. I see as a great option. The ball is in your court Josh, work your butt off and earn that last spot, for mine the list needs you.
 

BigBreakfast

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 19, 2019
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Not sure about this. I think your point makes a lot of sense but I'm sticking with TDK as back up/forward at this very early stage. Here's why:

- I am not sure if he has really been given a chance on a consistent basis to prove he can play a role up forward (in the last 2 years). I am not sure if we as fans have been patient enough with his development when in reality, it just takes time so his potential alone makes him a valid option.

- Other teams playing through our statues was (hopefully) a team based issue so with a better defensive system and coaching in general, its worth a look.

- TDK has shown that he has some X factor in the air and with his size and athleticism, is very hard to match up on. He doesn't need to be a star but be able to play a role. With Harry and Charlie in the team (again hopefully), he has the opportunity to fly under the radar and cause lots of problems for other teams.

- Give him a full pre season (which he didn't have last year) with another year of development, we should start to see him play with more confidence and see him trust his body more.

- Although Jack was valuable as the 2nd ruck option for a few games, I question whether or not this is a sustainable option for an entire year. It would have been fascinating to see him continue to play that role for a longer period. Maybe Jack as a 3rd option for something different is a better way to go. Not sure.
We are far to big in this scenario. Not enough capacity to provide pressure going back with H, Charlie and TDK/Pitto. Should never happen again. Too much risk of a bomb it long to the big guys strategy that is from a bygone era.
Pitto has become break glass…
 

carlton_99

Club Legend
Oct 4, 2018
1,674
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Carlton
Pitto is a better ruckman than TDK. Our midfield functions much better when he's playing and we tend to win more games when he's playing so I'm probably going to go with Pitto on this one.

Fair to say I'm in the minority.
I was interested by your point so just looked at the stats in our 8 wins from 2021.

In the 8 games we won Pitt was the sole ruck or the main ruck in 4 (Fre, GC, Ess, Hawks), TDK in the other 4 (Ade, Fre, Col, Stk).

Clearance differential in those games:
TDK --> -16, -19, +14, -3
Pitt --> +14, -7, -1, -8

Overall it seems they are pretty even and in our wins it didn't seem clearances were our strength. However, this is a pretty insignificant stat as the number of effective clearances are what's really important when looking at how a midfield functions. One interesting thing is it did seem that TDK did go up against better opposition in our wins (O'Brien, Darcy, Grundy and Marshall/Hunter) compared to Pitt (Darcy/Meek, Graham, Draper, Reeves/McEvoy). Would be interesting to look at it in all our games (inc. losses) but from this limited info I still think the potential TDK has puts him on top.

Will be interesting to see Voss' best 22. I'm personally not a big fan of TDK/Pitt in the same team but they may believe that it is required if TDK isn't ready to ruck 100%. I'd love to see JSOS take some ruck minutes just because of his proficiency in the midfield but they may want him in the forward more, especially if Gov moves back.
 
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Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
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We are far to big in this scenario. Not enough capacity to provide pressure going back with H, Charlie and TDK/Pitto. Should never happen again. Too much risk of a bomb it long to the big guys strategy that is from a bygone era.
Pitto has become break glass…

Worked okay for the Demons, Brown, MacDonald Jackson/Gawn
 

ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
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Pitto is a better ruckman than TDK. Our midfield functions much better when he's playing and we tend to win more games when he's playing so I'm probably going to go with Pitto on this one.

Fair to say I'm in the minority.

Whilst i dont entirely disagree, however I simply see no upside with Pitto, he is what he is and that is a below par ruckmen with really few areas of growth.. Whilst TDK was very poor in the ruck late last year, his upside and potential is extreme and well worth pursuing.. He also had no pre season and an interrupted start to the season which put him on the back foot which i think he failed to recover from.. I am hoping a full preseason, some extra weight and another year older will have TDK a bit closer to the mark.
 

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