Toast 2022 club champion awards - congrats Rory Laird!

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Ciao Giacomo said:
Your not saying he was rubbish but do you support the view (stated endlessly) that he is not an AFL player and should never again play for the Crows?

I have never said he is a future Brownlow Medallist but he does not deserve all the s**t dumped on him by a small group of poorly informed posters.

And to correct your “gone early again” bullshit, I never posted on the Brownlow Medal thread.
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My thoughts on Keays is he’s an ok player, he’s not rubbish, but our midfield isn’t great and for it to get better he needs to be overtaken.

To counter the Keays is rubbish talk we’ve had posters compare him to Petracca and that he’d get a game in most midfields.

Well tonight’s count as shown by how coaches rate him vindicates that he’s only ok, he’s not Petracca and he needs to be replaced by better mids. When that happens what happens to him?
 
Sanders said:
And still finished 3rd.

Interesting to see just how valuable Tex remains despite his suspension.

And we arsed about deciding whether he got another year????
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Not many senior players played a full year and Keays average score doesn’t have him third.

As for Tex, he’s still a gun.
 

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Danger in Texas said:
Still finished high despite that crap finish to the season

I'm a long-time fan of Keays and by no means agree with the nuffies that say he belongs in the SANFL, but him finishing third, considering that poor end to the season, speaks more volumes to how average we were over the course of the year
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He doesn’t finish 3rd on average points per game, he’s in the bottom half of the top 10.
 
Sanders said:
Players who don’t play are not very influential in a game. Let’s not hold it against a player for being available
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Some players get injured at no fault of their own, some questionably get selected. You have to take into account average score per game to see how valuable they were in the games played.

Keays was beaten by McAdam, Soligo and Fog and yet Keays is supposed to be our second best mid. That’s pretty indicative of the quality of our midfield and what some posters have been saying about Keays.

Interestingly McHenry played 20 games, not many in our team played that, would be interesting for a walk up start to see how he polled.
 
George Kramer said:
He doesn’t finish 3rd on average points per game, he’s in the bottom half of the top 10.
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And if he hadn't finished THAT poorly, he'd be close to the B&F winner. For reference, Soligo and Laird's votes per game might be close, but no-one would argue Soligo had a better season than Laird

Point is, in a good side, someone who finishes the season like Keays did doesn't get the luxury of a top 3 finish. But we can't put that against the player
 
Danger in Texas said:
And if he hadn't finished THAT poorly, he'd be close to the B&F winner. For reference, Soligo and Laird's votes per game might be close, but no-one would argue Soligo had a better season than Laird

Point is, in a good side, someone who finishes the season like Keays did doesn't get the luxury of a top 3 finish. But we can't put that against the player
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Except Lairds and Soligos votes per game weren’t close.
 
George Kramer said:
Except Lairds and Soligos votes per game weren’t close.
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I'll give you that. FWIW Keays didn't out-poll Soligo for votes per game, either (4 a game for Keays, 3.5 a game for Soligo)

Point still stands. McAdam was half a vote per game behind Dawson, yet no-one would say McAdam was close to having the season Dawson had

The hope would be that Keays gets overtaken by some of young guys in 2023 and beyond. Berry and Soligo, for instance, should both improve AND play more games, and thus should get the opportunity to poll better
 
Sanders said:
Players who don’t play are not very influential in a game. Let’s not hold it against a player for being available
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Yep, although our club's irrational selection policy also has to be factored in- i.e. let's not pretend that there's necessarily any objective quality derived from selection.
 
Southerntakeover said:
Yep, although our club's irrational selection policy also has to be factored in- i.e. let's not pretend that there's necessarily any objective quality derived from selection.
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Agree that the selection policy has been average, but you'd argue this applies to Keays? I very much disagree
 

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Ciao Giacomo said:
Congratulations to Rory Laird, a worthy winner and very underrated by some “Crows Supporters”.

Jordan Dawson also had a superb season despite having to plug many holes in our team.

Tex superb (lucky he didn’t just ****off and retire two years ago as suggested by certain BF posters).

Brodie Smith and Tom Doedee had much better seasons than you would think if you read BF.

Great effort by Fogarty, Soligo and Berry!
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Reckon you missed out a player… who came third.
 
Danger in Texas said:
I'll give you that. FWIW Keays didn't out-poll Soligo for votes per game, either (4 a game for Keays, 3.5 a game for Soligo)

Point still stands. McAdam was half a vote per game behind Dawson, yet no-one would say McAdam was close to having the season Dawson had

The hope would be that Keays gets overtaken by some of young guys in 2023 and beyond. Berry and Soligo, for instance, should both improve AND play more games, and thus should get the opportunity to poll better
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Soligo had one game as sub so I backed that out
 
Danger in Texas said:
I'll give you that. FWIW Keays didn't out-poll Soligo for votes per game, either (4 a game for Keays, 3.5 a game for Soligo)

Point still stands. McAdam was half a vote per game behind Dawson, yet no-one would say McAdam was close to having the season Dawson had

The hope would be that Keays gets overtaken by some of young guys in 2023 and beyond. Berry and Soligo, for instance, should both improve AND play more games, and thus should get the opportunity to poll better
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Mcadam a very surprising result!
 
George Kramer said:
My thoughts on Keays is he’s an ok player, he’s not rubbish, but our midfield isn’t great and for it to get better he needs to be overtaken.

To counter the Keays is rubbish talk we’ve had posters compare him to Petracca and that he’d get a game in most midfields.

Well tonight’s count as shown by how coaches rate him vindicates that he’s only ok, he’s not Petracca and he needs to be replaced by better mids. When that happens what happens to him?
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I'm sure there was facebook post from the club saying he went in for surgery as soon as the season finished. So he was obviously carrying something for a chunk of the season which explains why he went from leading the brownlow to backing right off
 
Well done Rory Laird.

But geez…

Not sure winning a crows B&F at the moment is a massive achievement!..

Bit like that time Bryce Gibbs won one at Carlolton..

But anyway… Our best player by a country mile this year was Jordan Dawson IMO.. and Fogs second half of the season was immense.

The striking thing about Rory Laird though is how he played much better as a midfielder when they sent mcrouch to the SANFL.. and then how Rory took yet another giant leap and played even better again when they moved Ben Keays to HF..

Surprise, Surprise eh.. take the complete hack in Keays and the backwards handballer in crouch out of the midfield, and instead team Rory up with some of our promising youngsters, and our midfield instantly looked 10 times better and Rory’s game went up 3 or 4 notches.

Some of us around here were saying rather loudly that this change needed to be made from the very start of the season mind you..

keays, crouch and laird (and sloane before he did a knee) cannot all play in the same midfield. Only one of them and thats Rory.

Hopefully next year crouch is gone, or is restricted to sanfl duties, and ben keays is joining him.. and sloane is at HF or HB or out too..

Because none of these three should be in our midfield moving forward and if i’m picking a 6/7 man forward line out of;

Izak Rankine,
shane mcadam,
josh Rachele,
tex walker,
the fog,
TT,
himm,
Gollant,
Pedlar,
taylor,
rory sloane and
ben keays…

I’m afraid… My picks for the 3 or 4 small/medium forward roles aint gonna include Ben “literally could hack it anywhere” keays.. and I’m not really that sold on Rory Sloane either.. too old, too slow and just about cooked.
 
The results underline how much we've struggled

Players who only put in partial seasons or underperformed significantly saunter into the top 10

Laird, Dawson & Tex our clear standouts. A thin top echelon of A Grade talent.

Hopefully Berry, Fogarty, Soligo, Rachele continue on their way

Desperately need Doedee to return to his Bulldogs game output level

Butts needs to rebound from a down year

ROB needs to be held to a higher standard

Thilthorpe hopefully jumps a tier next season.

What to make of Schoenberg...? I like him but played some horrific football this season in amongst some decent stuff. Didn't progress overall this season.

Optimistic about Worrell and Murray.

Unsure on Parnell. Did fine first up but perhaps too small for lockdown, can he impact enough in an attacking role?

Fingers crossed for Pedlar, Cook.

Question marks - I like Gollant but uncertain on role? Chayce Jones and Ned McHenry... is what we've seen what we're going to get? Milera... what level does a full preseason get him to? Sloane - any impact in 2023? Sholl - clearly we don't rate him. Smith - still an auto selection? Was decent at times but not a week-in, week-out performer like senior players at other clubs are. Do we see a role for Turner?

Taylor and Nankervis both promising.

Given up on: Himmelberg - has something but doesn't show it often enough. McPherson and Hamill - durability. McAsey. Seedsman - assume will retire.

McAdam a trade piece?

Murphy meh. The type of perennial bits and pieces high effort player we love. Hately meh.

Hinge solid. Keays solid.

Can't see us picking Newchurch, Borlase or Strachan ever without a tonne of injuries

Rowe, Davis delisted. Crouch hopefully traded.
 
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