Coach 2022 Coaching

[saintbill]

I'm guessing it is not as obvious to fix as you think it is.

Every commentator is saying the same thing, it's bloody obvious when you watch live. We simply set up down the line with zero player movement or overlap.

Nobody works hard to the other side to get a switch. Nobody presents an option down the middle.

I can handle getting smashed if we take the game on. We just play a dreadful brand of footy. It's not just my bias, when I go to footy with opposing supporters, it is always the same message "You guys are dreadful to watch", or "Do you guys do anything other than just kick it down the line".

Sorry, I refuse to believe 22 players are that hard to coach. Ratts is either dumb, stubborn, or the players simply don't want to listen to him. Whatever it is, all roads lead to the fact he is a crap coach, and he has us playing an unwatchable brand of footy.

I am sure he is another "good bloke", but frankly I am staggered he got a contact extension. Another massive utensil up by the club.

 

[Mowman]

Every commentator is saying the same thing, it's bloody obvious when you watch live. We simply set up down the line with zero player movement or overlap.

Nobody works hard to the other side to get a switch. Nobody presents an option down the middle.

I can handle getting smashed if we take the game on. We just play a dreadful brand of footy. It's not just my bias, when I go to footy with opposing supporters, it is always the same message "You guys are dreadful to watch", or "Do you guys do anything other than just kick it down the line".

Sorry, I refuse to believe 22 players are that hard to coach. Ratts is either dumb, stubborn, or the players simply don't want to listen to him. Whatever it is, all roads lead to the fact he is a crap coach, and he has us playing an unmatchable brand of footy.

I am sure he is another "good bloke", but frankly I am staggered he got a contact extension. Another massive utensil up by the club.

Joey on triple M mentioned how out dated our game style is

 

[BrutThough]

Every commentator is saying the same thing, it's bloody obvious when you watch live. We simply set up down the line with zero player movement or overlap.

Nobody works hard to the other side to get a switch. Nobody presents an option down the middle.

I can handle getting smashed if we take the game on. We just play a dreadful brand of footy. It's not just my bias, when I go to footy with opposing supporters, it is always the same message "You guys are dreadful to watch", or "Do you guys do anything other than just kick it down the line".

Sorry, I refuse to believe 22 players are that hard to coach. Ratts is either dumb, stubborn, or the players simply don't want to listen to him. Whatever it is, all roads lead to the fact he is a crap coach, and he has us playing an unmatchable brand of footy.

I am sure he is another "good bloke", but frankly I am staggered he got a contact extension. Another massive utensil up by the club.

Most fans in the competition complain about their team doing the same thing throughout games.

Now, either every coach in the competition is a crap/dumb coach and clubs should be looking to Bigfooty next time they need to find one, or fixing those issues to play a high quality brand of football is a lot more difficult than you want to believe it is.

 

[Diehard Saint]

What’s going to change between this season and next?

Are we relying purely on internal growth? And lack of injuries (which never happens.)

I cannot believe we are potentially making one coaching change - and much as I love Lenny, he had better talent to work with at GWS and they still didn’t get the job done.

Like it or not, we’ve re-signed Ratts so not much we can do there, but Lade’s had three years - time for a new voice in a forward line that’s obviously not working. Look what Enright has done for our defence. Chances are we’ll be re-signing Dan and Paddy in what can only be seen as desperate moves.

What have we improved from last season, besides pretty much fluking our two NGA talents and Ross finding some of his previous form? I get Steele, Clark, Gresh and DMac have been big outs but there’s no guarantees it doesn’t happen again.

Standing still is going backward in this game, and we’ve been overtaken by both Blues and Pies with what appear to be better tactical coaches.

And insult to injury we appear to be refusing to even consider any external help for the player we’re building our team around.

I find this all pretty demoralising tbh.

 

[Mowman]

Are we relying purely on internal growth? And lack of injuries (which never happens.)

If we are we will be in the very same spot this time next year if not in a worse position

 

[saintbill]

Most fans in the competition complain about their team doing the same thing throughout games.

Now, either every coach in the competition is a crap/dumb coach and clubs should be looking to Bigfooty next time they need to find one, or fixing those issues to play a high quality brand of football is a lot more difficult than you want to believe it is.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it is as simple as being a bad side. Compare us to the Hawks for example. The Hawks are getting flogged from time to time, but it is obvious that they are willing to play a more daring brand of footy than us.

It will cause some blowouts the next few years, but they are also playing a brand that can compete with the best sides when they get it right.

Watch them blow right past us the next couple of years. Whilst we continue to refine our kick to kick 1970s game plan, the Hawks style will eventually result in a good side and their players will develop faster.

In the meantime their fans are not subjected to an appalling brand of footy to watch. Watch us suck the life out of Windhagen, Owens, NWM the next few years. Happened far too many times to be a coincidence.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I have never seen a club 8-3 at the break, and finish the season completely bereft of confidence.

Blues!!!

 

[Sab22]

I still don't understand why we could not wait till the season was over before we offered Ratts an extension.

 

[Mowman]

I still don't understand why we could not wait till the season was over before we offered Ratts an extension.

gringo2011 Thoughts ?

 

[Mowman]

I still don't understand why we could not wait till the season was over before we offered Ratts an extension.

I still don't understand why we could not wait till the season was over before we didn't offer Ratts an extension

 

[MrFoster]

Every commentator is saying the same thing, it's bloody obvious when you watch live. We simply set up down the line with zero player movement or overlap.

Nobody works hard to the other side to get a switch. Nobody presents an option down the middle.

I can handle getting smashed if we take the game on. We just play a dreadful brand of footy. It's not just my bias, when I go to footy with opposing supporters, it is always the same message "You guys are dreadful to watch", or "Do you guys do anything other than just kick it down the line".

Sorry, I refuse to believe 22 players are that hard to coach. Ratts is either dumb, stubborn, or the players simply don't want to listen to him. Whatever it is, all roads lead to the fact he is a crap coach, and he has us playing an unwatchable brand of footy.

I am sure he is another "good bloke", but frankly I am staggered he got a contact extension. Another massive utensil up by the club.

Exactly.. the main concern is the players seem lost and frustrated in this so called saints footy style… they either bust their gut to tackle well drilled opposition players, or run to hot spots with 20 players hanging off each other.. they might as well be playing rugby.. ugly game style if there is one.. yes, it’s low risk and keep the game close, but it’s also counter productive, because it makes harder for us to score too.. if the opposition can score more efficiently when the momentum eventually turns, you’re toast..

Our target seem to be just gain territory rugby style, force ball up/boundary throwing then reset to keep the ball inside our forward half.. it’s a really taxing game style and you wonder why the side can’t be consistent with the pressure..

 

[gringo2011]

Most fans in the competition complain about their team doing the same thing throughout games.

Now, either every coach in the competition is a crap/dumb coach and clubs should be looking to Bigfooty next time they need to find one, or fixing those issues to play a high quality brand of football is a lot more difficult than you want to believe it is.

Watch Carlton, Freo, Collingwood and even Hawthorn. They play attractive footy. Even Dogs, Geelong and Dees play fast attacking footy. We are an outlier, more like WCE and North in game style and bore factor. We play really dull, ugly, boring footy.

 

[gringo2011]

If we are we will be in the very same spot this time next year if not in a worse position

I think we could go either way but really relying on a small pool of players to step up. After so many came on this year and didn't move us forward it looks hard to believe though. Certainly going to need some really hard focus on making the game plan better in the off season.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Watch Carlton, Freo, Collingwood and even Hawthorn. They play attractive footy. Even Dogs, Geelong and Dees play fast attacking footy. We are an outlier, more like WCE and North in game style and bore factor. We play really dull, ugly, boring footy.

North were good to watch yesterday for most of the game

 

[Sully111]

So we're going to finish 10th

yawn

 

[BrutThough]

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it is as simple as being a bad side. Compare us to the Hawks for example. The Hawks are getting flogged from time to time, but it is obvious that they are willing to play a more daring brand of footy than us.

It will cause some blowouts the next few years, but they are also playing a brand that can compete with the best sides when they get it right.

Watch them blow right past us the next couple of years. Whilst we continue to refine our kick to kick 1970s game plan, the Hawks style will eventually result in a good side and their players will develop faster.

In the meantime their fans are not subjected to an appalling brand of footy to watch. Watch us suck the life out of Windhagen, Owens, NWM the next few years. Happened far too many times to be a coincidence.

It's as ignorant to only blame the coaches as it would be to only blame the players/list. There are elements of both that need improvement and also elements of both that worked well.

 

[BrutThough]

Watch Carlton, Freo, Collingwood and even Hawthorn. They play attractive footy. Even Dogs, Geelong and Dees play fast attacking footy. We are an outlier, more like WCE and North in game style and bore factor. We play really dull, ugly, boring footy.

And they all play crap, boring football at times.

Just like us who can look awful and exciting depdnign on the game or even quarter.

 

[Mowman]

So we're going to finish 10th

yawn

Yep,
6th - 10th - 10th
and two more years of the same to come

 

[Diehard Saint]

Yep,
6th - 10th - 10th
and two more years of the same to come

One would hope that if we’re in the doldrums by the bye next season the club has the guts to make changes. But I’m not holding my breath.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I still don't understand why we could not wait till the season was over before we offered Ratts an extension.

Because they (club management) would be forced make a tough decision at seasons end. Now they can do the ostrich for the next 2 years, then come out and state we gave Ratten a chance and unfortunately it didnt work out.

I expect the club will be in 'no mans land' for the next couple of years, hopefully they can at least recruit well in that time.

 

[moirae42]

Yep,
6th - 10th - 10th
and two more years of the same to come

I think it will be worse.

If we continue on this trajectory, Ratten will not see out his contract and we will probably slip even further down.

 

[Mowman]

I think it will be worse.

If we continue on this trajectory, Ratten will not see out his contract and we will probably slip even further down.

I agree

 

[gringo2011]

I think it will be worse.

If we continue on this trajectory, Ratten will not see out his contract and we will probably slip even further down.

I'm a bit more positive that we'll rise but stall at a side just outside the top 4 as well hit a ceiling.

 

[George]

I still don't understand why we could not wait till the season was over before we offered Ratts an extension.

Because it's not industry practice to wait until the end of the season to make a call. In reality we could've probably waited two or three more weeks but I don't think it would make much difference if we had already waited 16 to make a decision.

We took a risk like we do with all decisions and this one went against us. Luckily the 2 year deal is irrelevant because the pay-out is only 6 months which for Ratts would be about 250k. If we are nowhere near it by the midpoint next year I would hope they make a call but also hope I'm wrong and we turn it around.

 

[lewdogs]

A few of my thoughts on the coaching this year:

- I think it's silly to label Ratts a dud, he's not necessarily proven himself to be good or bad. We have performed around where we were expected to the last two years. That isn't good enough, we need to find a way to improve and be better but at the same time neither year has been a disaster. Ratts needs to find a way to take the team to the next level.

- Development of youngsters this year is a positive. Windhager, Owens and Nasiah have been fantastic as first year players. They will be critical players going forward. They all play in an area of the ground that we need strengthening. Watching the Swans this afternoon, the emergence of young midfield types such as Warner and Gulden has helped them to jump forward, we will be hoping these guys do the same for us.

- The forward line is an area of concern in that we aren't really developing players there. Max looks fantastic and is not a concern, the concern is who is going to help him up there? We can't seem to find players that can regularly perform in that area of the ground. Hayes will be crucial next year, but we need to find a way of performing better in this area of the ground, finding players that kick goals and help the team. We seem to small up forward in that we lack strength. I would like to see a new forwards coach and see if they can transform this area of the ground like Enright has done with the backline.

- We have too many half back players. We play guys there to find form and we have a lot of good players there but they just seem to get stuck there and can't go elsewhere. Look at who has been there...
Hill, Sinclair, Clark, Sharman, Webster, Paton. It's just too many. We need to find ways to use Clark and Hill regularly and effectively. Hill was brought in as a winger but his skillset doesn't seem to suit the wing. Wood and DMac are better wings than him in our side. We need to find a way to use him well consistently, we have Coffield coming back next year who surely slots into a backline role so we need to look at this group of players and find other roles for them.

- From 8-3 the season was disappointing I think it came down to lack of depth and quality as much as coaching. We got a few injuries and it hurt us because we lack depth players that can come in and help, but our system is also under-developed. We need to have a system where players can slot in and perform a role, which means getting better, well-suited players as well as developing that system to a better degree. We seem to play a chaos type of game at times, it's great to watch when it clicks but we need to find a way to be dour when it isn't going our way. We seemed able to do that earlier in the year when we had our best side out there but slipped away with a few injuries.

- Our rebound from defence is an area of weakness. For example, when the opposition get a behind we hardly ever go coast-to-coast.

- The rucks are still confusing, Marshall is better around the ground but Ryder helps us at centre bounce. We need to sort out the plan there.

I can't see any reason why Ratten should have been sacked if he'd gotten to the end of the year with an 11-11 record. It's just ok, it's not terrible. The main question is do the players believe in him? I have to assume they do because if they didn't surely we wouldn't re-sign him. I know some will see that as naive but I just think you have to trust the club on some level not to employ someone they don't genuinely think is good enough.

The challenge for Ratts and his team is finding a way to elevate this team from the chasing pack to the leading pack. Fremantle have managed it this year, Sydney have managed it. Carlton to a lesser degree. I have seen that we can beat the top teams on our day so the challenge is to do it consistently enough to get to 14+ wins for the year, we will have 11 this year so we aren't miles off.