Coach 2022 Coaching

[gringo2011]

I don't think so at all, the over the top continuous stuff is not on but happy to see other POV's within the rules, you've overstepped many times yet haven't been warned at all, funny that. I don't want to ban people, I overturned Mowmans last week, but what choice is left

It really depends on what you class as over the top criticism I guess. I think generally there is very little negativity considering we are missing finals again after a 10 year rebuild and people like you are saying it's time to start again.

I actually find it bizarre that people could believe that the list is s**t and needs starting over but absolutely no-one at the club should be held to any account. To me if this was a forum about any subject, that expectations not being met would result in criticism.

If we were Qantas share holders and they were promoting internally and patting each other on the back despite running the company badly and losing money, we'd all be ropable. I think there is a certain lack of expectation at the Saints because people have been conditioned to expect nothing from us.

 

[Sully111]

I actually find it bizarre that people could believe that the list is s**t and needs starting over but absolutely no-one at the club should be held to any account. To me if this was a forum about any subject, that expectations not being met would result in criticism.

That's the thing for me. The list isn't sh*t. It was, but it's ok now. They're just poorly coached.

 

[TheOsprey]

Funny line though. He's made a role for himself as a kind of anarchic commentator who shouts down the footy world taking itself too seriously. He doesn't really think too deeply about it IMO. Probably just had a cone and chucked up a funny line on Twitter.

The not giving a rose to the clubs he doesn’t want to go to is gold.

Osher: I’m sorry St Kilda, you didn’t get a rose

St Kilda: WTF he said he will only coach in Victoria yet GWS, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney, Freo and West Coast got a rose?

 

[Dr Spaceman]

If we were Qantas share holders and they were promoting internally and patting each other on the back despite running the company badly and losing money, we'd all be ropable.

I'd be really anoyed about the boss's new choppers

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Geez that’s a poor take from Swan. He has weirdly staunch old man views sometimes.

Clarkson won 4 flags in an equalized comp with two different lists and playing styles, including a three-peat.

In his three-peat years, aesthetically they were a brilliant team to watch as their whole team were great kicks and it was as close to footy perfection as we’ve seen.

Imagine calling praise of a coach like Clarko, Belichick, Klopp etc. “dick-sucking”.

There’s plenty of people going around in the AFL who get unwarranted or over-the-top praise. Alistair Clarkson is definitely not one of them.

I see his point though.

Clarko would be able to win a premiership.
If we had Clarko all the players would play better.
If we had Clarko we wouldn't have so many injuries.
If we had Clarko, the trainee receptionist wouldn't be so reluctant to date me.
If we had Clarko, we wouldn't need to worry about global warming.
Clarko , Clarko , Clarko!!!!

 

[George]

It really depends on what you class as over the top criticism I guess. I think generally there is very little negativity considering we are missing finals again after a 10 year rebuild and people like you are saying it's time to start again.

I actually find it bizarre that people could believe that the list is s**t and needs starting over but absolutely no-one at the club should be held to any account. To me if this was a forum about any subject, that expectations not being met would result in criticism.

If we were Qantas share holders and they were promoting internally and patting each other on the back despite running the company badly and losing money, we'd all be ropable. I think there is a certain lack of expectation at the Saints because people have been conditioned to expect nothing from us.

It's over the top because some of the stuff that is criticised never actually happened, like nobody at the club being held to account. It's just made up as another reason to criticise.

I mean the response from the minority of posters towards having an existing board rule implemented is actually bizarre. Both sides as worse as each other, those that personally attack other posters and those that overly criticise the club. Some fall into both groups lol.

Not sure why continue to have these discussions all because a few take it as a personal attack that their posts may be moderated. It's boggles the mind

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It really depends on what you class as over the top criticism I guess. I think generally there is very little negativity considering we are missing finals again after a 10 year rebuild and people like you are saying it's time to start again.

I actually find it bizarre that people could believe that the list is s**t and needs starting over but absolutely no-one at the club should be held to any account. To me if this was a forum about any subject, that expectations not being met would result in criticism.

If we were Qantas share holders and they were promoting internally and patting each other on the back despite running the company badly and losing money, we'd all be ropable. I think there is a certain lack of expectation at the Saints because people have been conditioned to expect nothing from us.

Geelong have a list that extends to the 2006 draft.
Given that we crashed and burned, and our eldest after Geary retires is from 2011.
Given that the coaches and recruiters that were there when we got our early picks in Billings, and Paddy ( who may have turned out pretty decent apart from concussion ).
What good is it going to do to raze the place with burning pitchforks because you aren't happy with the list?

I just hope we don't go looking for shortcuts again, shortcuts that will end up putting us back 5 years.

 

[gringo2011]

Geelong have a list that extends to the 2006 draft.
Given that we crashed and burned, and our eldest after Geary retires is from 2011.
Given that the coaches and recruiters that were there when we got our early picks in Billings, and Paddy ( who may have turned out pretty decent apart from concussion ).
What good is it going to do to raze the place with burning pitchforks because you aren't happy with the list?

I just hope we don't go looking for shortcuts again, shortcuts that will end up putting us back 5 years.

I was suggesting the "positive" crew say that the coaches are fine but the list is s**t and needs a rebuild but then at the same time say that any criticism of the people who work at the club should be held to no account because with out being at the club you can't know who to blame. There is no logic to it.

Maybe the club need to do more to apologise to the fans and let us know what their plan to get us out of the poo is.

 

[MordySaint]

It's over the top because some of the stuff that is criticised never actually happened, like nobody at the club being held to account. It's just made up as another reason to criticise.

I mean the response from the minority of posters towards having an existing board rule implemented is actually bizarre. Both sides as worse as each other, those that personally attack other posters and those that overly criticise the club. Some fall into both groups lol.

Not sure why continue to have these discussions all because a few take it as a personal attack that their posts may be moderated. It's boggles the mind

I really find this forum quite bizarre at times.

We have a club which sets out roadmaps, goals to 2018, goals to 2022, premiership by this year, contenders by this year, finals a minimum standard etc. They fail to hit any of their KPI's when it comes to results on the field.

I won't or rarely criticize an actual player of our club because I know they are trying their best. The players are under the most spotlight to perform, the most pressure and they are all so young in their careers.

But to put an embargo on questioning decisions made by mature adults at our club, to stop the debate about why experienced people made particular choices when it comes to trade, coaching, financial results ... it all sounds a bit like censorship to me.

 

[George]

I really find this forum quite bizarre at times.

We have a club which sets out roadmaps, goals to 2018, goals to 2022, premiership by this year, contenders by this year, finals a minimum standard etc. They fail to hit any of their KPI's when it comes to results on the field.

I won't or rarely criticize an actual player of our club because I know they are trying their best. The players are under the most spotlight to perform, the most pressure and they are all so young in their careers.

But to put an embargo on questioning decisions made by mature adults at our club, to stop the debate about why experienced people made particular choices when it comes to trade, coaching, financial results ... it all sounds a bit like censorship to me.

I think all the club talk is marketing, don't bother listening to it. Results speak for themselves I reckon.

As for embargoes, it's only for exaggerated/continuous and excessive criticism. Negativity is fine as long as it has some merit and isn't done by the same poster over and over again. Most here hate me lol but I reckon I am pretty lenient and fair, overturning bans in situations that I reflected on that I thought I was in the wrong, and rarely if ever suspend people. Only the true lunatics are booted out. Everyone here is pretty decent but they take moderation of their content as a personal attack and then arguments stem from that.

All we've been asking for is a bit of a step back and composure before shitting on the club. There's board rules we have to try and implement. We don't get it right all the time and it's naturally going to piss people off but it's not personal and shouldn't be taken that way

 

[NarklesHelmet]

That's the thing for me. The list isn't sh*t. It was, but it's ok now. They're just poorly coached.

It’s so hard to judge a list when our gameplan is as unskilled as ours.

So many people say “how do you know what gameplans are” but, leaving that aside, a great way to see there’s something fundamentally lacking at our club is how a sublimely skilled player like Hill can come into our environment and miss targets from day one.

People underestimate how important it is for development to have a sound gameplan. It improves skills and decision-making immensely for so many reasons (predictability of movement, not being gassed from chasing tail all the time, reward for effort and many more).

I’d say it’s almost impossible to judge our list since the Richo days. We’ve become a club that values tackling, pressure and little else so we are a place where players don’t develop their skills and footy IQ.

This makes judging the worth of footballers at St Kilda compared to other clubs extremely difficult.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s so hard to judge a list when our gameplan is as unskilled as ours.

So many people say “how do you know what gameplans are” but, leaving that aside, a great way to see there’s something fundamentally lacking at our club is how a sublimely skilled player like Hill can come into our environment and miss targets from day one.

People underestimate how important it is for development to have a sound gameplan. It improves skills and decision-making immensely for so many reasons (predictability of movement, not being gassed from chasing tail all the time, reward for effort and many more).

I’d say it’s almost impossible to judge our list since the Richo days. We’ve become a club that values tackling, pressure and little else so we are a place where players don’t develop their skills and footy IQ.

This makes judging the worth of footballers at St Kilda compared to other clubs extremely difficult.

And even NWM, he came in in his first game and hit laser passes, a few months in and he's found a way to turn over as many as he hits. A lot of our players are having career best seasons on paper, players like Gresh and Ross have gone from very little contribution to being good players etc.

The game plan seems to not have a lot of system but the one thing you do notice is that we kick the ball to a stationary Max King over and over again without much success from it. It surely can't be all on the players. If it's them ignoring instructions we should send them to Sandy.

 

[ScrappyDo]

On a more positive note

I do like how Ratts is handling windy and giving him an "apprenticeship" by following the best players in the comp (like Steele did)

I wonder if it will continue next year or if he'll be let off the chain.

Either way it's a good way to develop windy.

On CPH2145 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I love how Windy is reaming some of the comps best mids.

 

[Moquo]

Lambs to the slaughter

He might not eat them all

 

[Diehard Saint]

No it isn't a great look. But, context is important.
Why didn't the media pick this up 2 weeks ago? I'll give you a hint. It makes a so much better story now.

That is true. I saw it happen while watching the game.
At the time I thought he didn’t want to make eye contact with Ratten because he thought he’d be reprimanded for giving away a stupid dissent 50, so he tried to avoid going near him. I thought it was quite funny, and Rutten didn’t seem overly peed off with the 50.

Putting it now in a different context now which the media has done definitely adds more spice to the story - but like everything in the media - perception is not always truth.

 

[Mowman]

With the whole Clarko Essendon thing, I’d be making enquiries after Caracella. He may end up having to leave, his star has fallen a bit after being at Essendon but I like the way they move the ball and he’s been at Geelong and Richmond in charge of ball movement, two very good systems.

Agree with this
But isn't that Rath's department

 

[BigMonty]

Two comments about Coaches.
If Rath is so good at stats and working angles does that not make him a good match day tactician? As decisions are most often based on measurable. If Ratts is so poor match day and you can see him talking with Rath in the box game day, does that not mean that they are either both good or both bad. Anyway just a thought.

The other thought was Richo was always seen and had a reputation for being a great developer of young players. Yet here on BF he clearly is not regarded as such.

Melbourne have done all right with his assistance.

Think that coaches have less influence than the greats on BF decree as such....and some are even okay. If they were totally hopeless the word gets around and they would not get a gig anywhere.....good luck to Lenny just hope we don't do a Rob Harvey to him

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Agree with this
But isn't that Rath's department

You’d think so wouldn’t you.

But that article someone posted where he said our gameplan was to “choose your own adventure” coupled with how bad our footskills and ball movement are mean that, if he is in charge, he’s failing pretty badly.

We need to get the bottom of why our skills and ball movement are the worst in the comp. It’s honestly worth an enquiry at this point and if we fix that, so much other stuff falls into place.

What we are doing now is failing badly.

 

[St Neil]

With the whole Clarko Essendon thing, I’d be making enquiries after Caracella. He may end up having to leave, his star has fallen a bit after being at Essendon but I like the way they move the ball and he’s been at Geelong and Richmond in charge of ball movement, two very good systems.

I very much like this idea. Get him if possible.

Caracella did wonders at Tigerland and was openly lauded by everyone there. Their ball movement was the unheralded reason for their ascension. Ditto with his time at Geelong.

Caracella is still contracted for another 2 years at Essendon but I’d love him at the Saints. The one area we need to fix is our ball movement. It is terrible and the current coaches responsible for it should be replaced. Results tell the story.

Suddenly a coaching panel consisting of Enright, Hayes and Caracella would start to look half reasonable. Still a few more to go though.

 

[kick it lace out]

How good would it be if the St.Kilda FC did a Fremantle and stole Clarkson from under the noses of both North and Essendon?

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Going a bit early here but it's gonna be a thing at some point so why the hell not.

I'm pretty disappointed with what l saw last night. The loss aside l have to ask at this point just what our boys have spent their preseason doing, because we were an absolute rabble.
The Filth despite their relative youth and inexperience were far better drilled and organized with better structures and game plan. We on the other hand looked like a side who'd never played together.

Rath was supposed to be our big IP man, what has he brought???

Do we have any game plan other than bombing it to Max???

Have at it.

Just thought I'd quote Scrappy's original opening post to this thread, dated March 19, 2022, the day after the Pies game, as a little reminder of how our season went nowhere on a number of different levels.

 

[PandaG]

Caracalla could take over from rats around rnd 15-16 next year which could be good..?

 

[George]

Anyone know where we can find contract information for assistant coaches?

 

[NarklesHelmet]

That’s a good question on assistants.

If our review says “Lade/someone isn’t up to it”, can they still be let go now or is it too late?

 

[Mowman]

That’s a good question on assistants.

If our review says “Lade/someone isn’t up to it”, can they still be let go now or is it too late?

Of course, Essendon just got rid of Rutten