Autopsy 2022 Community Series: Hawks v Tigers, 1:10pm March 5th

Unpopular opinion probably, but you're all putting way too much stock into the captaincy. The game has changed and the captaincy is nowhere near as important as it once was, leadership groups everywhere have flattened out and I'd wager most of you wouldn't know most clubs captains without looking.

I have no qualms over the captains as they've been chosen because they were there to drive standards off the field as much as they are on the field, and I don't think a different captaincy choice would have radically changed the way we performed in the past few seasons.
 
Sep 28, 2019
4,749
8,287
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Unpopular opinion probably, but you're all putting way too much stock into the captaincy. The game has changed and the captaincy is nowhere near as important as it once was, leadership groups everywhere have flattened out and I'd wager most of you wouldn't know most clubs captains without looking.

I have no qualms over the captains as they've been chosen because they were there to drive standards off the field as much as they are on the field, and I don't think a different captaincy choice would have radically changed the way we performed in the past few seasons.
I agree that captain choice doesn’t matter too much as it’s all about onfield leadership. Which I feel has been severely lacking in the recent years. Get some leadership out there and our captain pick isn’t as important.
 

JaegarTime

Team Captain
Jul 11, 2018
516
2,017
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Lewis or Gunston should have gotten the captaincy instead of Roughead. Was too much to ask of the big fella.
McEvoy should’ve gotten it instead of Stratton then we should have passed it to someone else this year.

Unfortunately the timing of our captaincy changes have been horrific in recent times. We were spoilt having Hodge as our captain.

I love Big Boy and think he was the a good choice, just a few years too late as his spot in the side is now a slight debate.
 

CHUBBSS

Premiership Player
Apr 6, 2010
4,869
11,814
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Unpopular opinion probably, but you're all putting way too much stock into the captaincy. The game has changed and the captaincy is nowhere near as important as it once was, leadership groups everywhere have flattened out and I'd wager most of you wouldn't know most clubs captains without looking.

I have no qualms over the captains as they've been chosen because they were there to drive standards off the field as much as they are on the field, and I don't think a different captaincy choice would have radically changed the way we performed in the past few seasons.
If that was the case tho then Stratton wouldn’t have played in a fair few games, it forced an area of the ground to have an additional liability on the field
 
Jan 17, 2008
29,053
59,119
Brisvegas
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Unpopular opinion probably, but you're all putting way too much stock into the captaincy. The game has changed and the captaincy is nowhere near as important as it once was, leadership groups everywhere have flattened out and I'd wager most of you wouldn't know most clubs captains without looking.

I have no qualms over the captains as they've been chosen because they were there to drive standards off the field as much as they are on the field, and I don't think a different captaincy choice would have radically changed the way we performed in the past few seasons.
Leadership has become more tiered as opposed to flatter.

Captain > everyone else

Is the flattest structure you can have except for no captain.

Captain > vice captain/s > leadership group (maybe even some young player leaders or line leaders) > everyone else

Is basically what most clubs run. We are turning back the clock on appearances to a time before leadership groups.
 
Nov 15, 2020
3,273
8,974
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Is the expectation that we can't play both? I'm only hearing that from a few people on this board and nowhere else.

Shiels, Maginness and Phillips miss a spot in the 22 for mine. Ward rotates through a wing and the centre.
Mitchell, O'Meara, Newcombe, Worpel, Nash will be the primary on-ballers in round 1 IMO. Ward, Macdonald and Wingard will run through there as well.
No but Sammy said 4 X inside mids somewhere. Think you are spot on here. Ward inside outside solves 2 problems
 

kazzooka

Premiership Player
May 20, 2010
3,043
6,085
AFL Club
Hawthorn
No but Sammy said 4 X inside mids somewhere. Think you are spot on here. Ward inside outside solves 2 problems
I like the idea of just adding more mids like Collingwood had done. We've always relied on the same few mids and then having poppy, breust, Roughead or Cyril go in briefly.

We should be playing stacks of mids. If you are choosing between your 23rd best player who is a mid and your 31st best player who is a forward pocket you just put the mid in the pocket and swap them back and forth with starting mids/interchange players.

Josh Morris played quite a few games in his first 2 seasons without impacting while we had a midfield relying on Mitchell, Worpel, Sheils and O'meara all game.

Now we have plenty of options to find the best mix.
 

Simon Crawshay

Premiership Player
Jun 4, 2016
4,806
13,069
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I like the idea of just adding more mids like Collingwood had done. We've always relied on the same few mids and then having poppy, breust, Roughead or Cyril go in briefly.

We should be playing stacks of mids. If you are choosing between your 23rd best player who is a mid and your 31st best player who is a forward pocket you just put the mid in the pocket and swap them back and forth with starting mids/interchange players.

Josh Morris played quite a few games in his first 2 seasons without impacting while we had a midfield relying on Mitchell, Worpel, Sheils and O'meara all game.

Now we have plenty of options to find the best mix.
Yep I agree 100%, we should load up the team big time with mids this year for two main reasons.

Number one it has been proven the last three years that relying on a midfield group consisting entirely of Mitchell, Worps, JOM and Shiels is a terrible strategy.

Number two by playing heaps of young mids (Newk, Ward, MacDonald, etc) will give them very valuable big game experience.

Your Josh Morris example is spot on as well. Getting a rookie player to play half forward in a team who's midfield is getting smashed helps neither the team nor the player.
 
Had another look at q2 and Q3. There is no way on form you could pick worpel over Nash. Nash was a genuine bull in there. Massive physical presence and cracks in very very hard
If by chance Worps doesn't get picked, it just means the selectors think we have a better option. That's actually a good thing.
 
Aug 31, 2008
23,265
46,446
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Nuggets
Had another look at q2 and Q3. There is no way on form you could pick worpel over Nash. Nash was a genuine bull in there. Massive physical presence and cracks in very very hard

No chance. We need to move away from a poor kicking midfield unit, and Worpel is probably the biggest offender of them all. JOM and Mitchell are both average kicks too, but they offer more in other areas.

Nash can at least offer real physicality and has the potential to be much more influential around the ball, which can make up for his average kicking under pressure. Never ever thought I'd be typing that out, but there it is.

We need a big step up from Worpel, hopefully he can turn it around. At least we he will work hard.
 

Dewyyyyy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
9,336
10,656
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Worpel needs to fix up his kicking, or he may well find himself on the outer
You know as well as me that's not true. There's plenty of superstars that aren't good kicks and haven't been.

I don't think that's a huge issue for one but also when it comes to the fact if he loses his spot it wouldn't be for long (mid season perhaps in a slump) it'd probably be a BH game or two.

Couple that with the fact he and Sam are pretty close and have worked together i doubt it'll happen unless it gets bad.
 

daniel23

Club Legend
Mar 19, 2006
2,871
5,958
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I see no point naming ward on a wing because it's convenient . He was our best inside mid along with newcombe he also mentioned he was uncomfortable playing wing first practice game, I'd be starting them 2 with Mitchell in the first centre bounce . Nash was much better than worpel but on reputation worpel will get first crack ,I really don't think you can play both. O'meara , worpel, wingard and phillips (thought some of his inside work was pretty decent)can round out the mid rotations. Shiels/maginess are perfect for the sub roles .
 
Couple that with the fact he and Sam are pretty close and have worked together i doubt it'll happen unless it gets bad.

Gee I hope we’re not making selections based on this. It’s one of the big problems I had with Clarko over the last few years. Sam isn’t doing it already. All selections should be performance based.
 
Sep 28, 2019
4,749
8,287
AFL Club
Hawthorn
You know as well as me that's not true. There's plenty of superstars that aren't good kicks and haven't been.

I don't think that's a huge issue for one but also when it comes to the fact if he loses his spot it wouldn't be for long (mid season perhaps in a slump) it'd probably be a BH game or two.

Couple that with the fact he and Sam are pretty close and have worked together i doubt it'll happen unless it gets bad.
Worps kicking has been disappointing. But it’s not the only thing he’s been struggling with. His clearances, disposal numbers, contested possessions and tackles are all not where they need to be. And are a low way off superstar level.

If he was on top of his game in all these aspects the kicking could be worked around.

I’m a big fan of him because I know he can play well. But he currently looks hesitant and unsure on the field. It’s all about him believing again and it clicking for him.
 

Dewyyyyy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
9,336
10,656
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Gee I hope we’re not making selections based on this. It’s one of the big problems I had with Clarko over the last few years. Sam isn’t doing it already. All selections should be performance based.
For sure but one Worpel is young so there's that, Clarkos biggest issue was playing older players too long, i wouldn't mind it too much if it's a younger player.

Sam has worked close with him so knows alot about him and probably brings the best out of him, unless it gets bad as a i said where he may struggle in a slump mid season, i can't see him being dropped.
 

Dewyyyyy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
9,336
10,656
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Worps kicking has been disappointing. But it’s not the only thing he’s been struggling with. His clearances, disposal numbers, contested possessions and tackles are all not where they need to be. And are a low way off superstar level.

If he was on top of his game in all these aspects the kicking could be worked around.

I’m a big fan of him because I know he can play well. But he currently looks hesitant and unsure on the field. It’s all about him believing again and it clicking for him.
They aren't what they use to be because he's been consistently playing as a 3rd or even 4th midfielder at times aswell as negating roles and forward.
For mine Sam brings the best out of him and in turn he explodes.

With Worps big thing for me is giving him a bigger role, give him that no1/no2 more often, No1 when Titch isn't in there or No2 rather than 3rd/4th string.

Jaeger will probably help with this taking a sidestep a little more outside.
 

Davo-27

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 9, 2006
8,264
15,381
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill Hawks
putting on the coaches hat for round 1, i would select this team:

B: Hardwick, Hartigan, Frost
HB: Scrimshaw, Sicily, CJ

C: Phillips, T.Mitchell, Morrison
R: Lynch, Ward, Newcombe

HF: MacDonald, Gunston, Moore
F: Breust, Lewis, Koschitzke

INT: Nash, Worpel, Wingard, McEvoy

EMER: Reeves, JOM, Howe, DGB

Injured that would be a chance at being in the starting 22: Impey, Day, Bramble

It's obviously not going to happen, because it would be too risky and may upset some factions within the club, but i think on form and McEvoy being the captain, this would be my starting team, some people might not like Shiels, JOM or Reeves missing out, but i think this team is the in-form team and maybe only carries Gunston, Hartigan and McEvoy as players out of form atm.
 
Last edited:

Dewyyyyy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
9,336
10,656
AFL Club
Hawthorn
putting on the coaches hat for round 1, i would select this team:

B: Hardwick, Hartigan, Frost
HB: Scrimshaw, Sicily, CJ

C: Phillips, T.Mitchell, Morrison
R: Lynch, Ward, Newcombe

HF: MacDonald, Gunston, Moore
F: Breust, Lewis, Koschitzke

INT: Nash, Worpel, Wingard, McEvoy

EMER: Reeves, JOM, Howe, DGB

It's obviously not going to happen, because it would be too risky and may upset some factions within the club, but i think on form and McEvoy being the captain, this would be my starting team, some people might not like Shiels, JOM or Reeves missing out, but i think this team is the in-form team and maybe only carries Gunston, Hartigan and McEvoy as players out of form atm.
B: Hardwick, Hartigan, Sicily
HB: Scrimshaw, Frost, CJ

C: MacDonald, T.Mitchell, O'Meara
R: Reeves, Ward, Worpel

HF: Wingard, Koschitzke, Moore
F: Breust, Lewis, Gunston

INT: McEvoy, Nash?, Newcombe, Morrison, Maginness (23rd)

EMER: Lynch, Nash, Howe, DGB

Idk tbh, we need some pace and that last spot in terms of defender, could see an extra mid being named meaning less mid minutes for some which i don't like, i reckon no Nash is a chance and to play DGB.
 
Sep 14, 2018
738
1,417
AFL Club
Hawthorn
B: Hardwick, Hartigan, Sicily
HB: Scrimshaw, Frost, CJ

C: MacDonald, T.Mitchell, O'Meara
R: Reeves, Ward, Worpel

HF: Wingard, Koschitzke, Moore
F: Breust, Lewis, Gunston

INT: McEvoy, Nash?, Newcombe, Morrison, Maginness (23rd)

EMER: Lynch, Nash, Howe, DGB

Idk tbh, we need some pace and that last spot in terms of defender, could see an extra mid being named meaning less mid minutes for some which i don't like, i reckon no Nash is a chance and to play DGB.

This looks close to me but I think philipps over mcdonald based on practice match form. Hopefully that changes over time. Nash over McGuinness, again based in form.
 

Dewyyyyy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 28, 2020
9,336
10,656
AFL Club
Hawthorn
This looks close to me but I think philipps over mcdonald based on practice match form. Hopefully that changes over time. Nash over McGuinness, again based in form.
Nash here named in the side, if he's not in the side he'll be 23rd probably, Phillips i forgot to name in Emergency but CMac will play. Maginness is either EMG or 23rd.
 
Nov 15, 2020
3,273
8,974
AFL Club
Hawthorn
No chance. We need to move away from a poor kicking midfield unit, and Worpel is probably the biggest offender of them all. JOM and Mitchell are both average kicks too, but they offer more in other areas.

Nash can at least offer real physicality and has the potential to be much more influential around the ball, which can make up for his average kicking under pressure. Never ever thought I'd be typing that out, but there it is.

We need a big step up from Worpel, hopefully he can turn it around. At least we he will work hard.
I am astounded. Long gone are the pressure forward zero tackle Nash games!
 
Back