List Mgmt. 2022 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals: Kinnear & Dalrymple - we march to no drum but our own!

[Ticky009]

 

[Bloods86]

I think GWS will value him much more than we would. A marquee name on their list for a couple of years will draw crowds, build their fan base.
If Buddy's still playing we don't have the salary space. Post-Buddy we'll be thinking long-term, investing in our existing list or going after someone to fill a need, not plugging a gap for a couple of years.

I'm happy for Dusty to go to the Giants and break their cap. Then for one of their young mids to come to us instead, don't even have to move house.

If Buddy wants more than $500k to go around again next year, I'd consider not offering him anything. He's done very well from us financially. If he wants one last shot at a flag, that should be enough motivation, and it's still a decent salary.

 

[the hypnotoad]

IF these reports are true it's Dusty pushing the move, not Sydney or GWS. Would think Richmonds options are trade Dusty out or he retires. Trade would be a 2nd or 3rd rounder, not much more

totally against any move for martin
he's a superstar, no doubt, but it's quite clear his hunger for football is wavering, for whatever reason
and while i understand he is interested in "the sydney lifestyle" (whatever that might mean these days), let him have it ... but if he sees football in sydney as something he'd also like to do on top of "lifestyle" (and again, it goes to his hunger), let him do it at the giants ...
i'd hate to think we'd tie up any exorbitant money on a bloke who's simply looking for a change of scenery when we will want to be using funds to lock up the outstanding young players already in swans colours
imagine losing, say, a chad warner in two years because we couldn't afford what he was asking, when we've paid for an ageing star who wanted "a new life" away from melbourne ...
... particularly as warner will likely be a dual premiership player by then

 

[RUNVS]

I'm happy for Dusty to go to the Giants and break their cap. Then for one of their young mids to come to us instead, don't even have to move house.

If Buddy wants more than $500k to go around again next year, I'd consider not offering him anything. He's done very well from us financially. If he wants one last shot at a flag, that should be enough motivation, and it's still a decent salary.

I think Buddy will be happy with $500,000 next year and we will be fine with paying that.

 

[SSwans2011]

I doubt the move happens anyway. Watch Dimma's full presser yesterday (or at least the Martin part in context), it's just the media making a mountain out of a molehill.

However, depending on price and our cap situation, I couldn't disagree with some of the posts in here more. We're entering our Premiership window, and Dusty could very well be the difference. Good luck to backlines trying to find match-ups for both Heeney and Martin, let alone Buddy if he goes around again. And that's not to mention Papley and Hayward, or the lack of attention that would then be left for McDonald. That would be one of, if not the most, dangerous forward line in the history of the competition.

 

[SSwans2011]

Also, not sure I agree with the notion that his hunger for football is wavering. He took 6 weeks off for mental health reasons, and has still been one of the most important players on-ground in the 3 games he's played. The bloke is still an absolute gun, and if the rumours were true (which I don't believe they are), perhaps the change of scenery would allow him to rediscover his best form.

s**t, plenty of us want Buddy to go around again, and Dusty has 5 years and less injury concerns on him. Burgoyne was a champ well into his 30s and I expect Dusty to be the same, wherever he's playing his footy.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Also, not sure I agree with the notion that he's hunger for football is wavering. He took 6 weeks off for mental health reasons, and has still been one of the most important players on-ground in the 3 games he's played. The bloke is still an absolute gun, and if the rumours were true (which I don't believe they are), perhaps the change of scenery would allow him to rediscover his best form.

s**t, plenty of us want Buddy to go around again, and Dusty has 5 years and less injury concerns on him. Burgoyne was a champ well into his 30s and I expect Dusty to be the same, wherever he's playing his footy.

Burgoyne was absolutely dedicated.

None of us can possibly know if Dusty is.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Burgoyne was absolutely dedicated.

None of us can possibly know if Dusty is.

You have no way of knowing if Dusty does or doesn't have the exact same dedication to the game that Burgoyne had. He has always shown himself to be the consumate professional and i can't imagine you could get to his level without total dedication to his craft.
Buddy had many more question marks over his name when he came to us than Dusty has.

 

[SSwans2011]

You have no way of knowing if Dusty does or doesn't have the exact same dedication to the game that Burgoyne had. He has always shown himself to be the consumate professional and i can't imagine you could get to his level without total dedication to his craft.
Buddy had many more question marks over his name when he came to us than Dusty has.

Bang on. Just look at how Dusty returned after 6 weeks out. Clearly he'd been keeping his body warn for when he did return. Absolute gun.

 

[the hypnotoad]

You have no way of knowing if Dusty does or doesn't have the exact same dedication to the game that Burgoyne had. He has always shown himself to be the consumate professional and i can't imagine you could get to his level without total dedication to his craft.
Buddy had many more question marks over his name when he came to us than Dusty has.

i agree on that, as a player he's always been a complete professional
but the inner hunger is immeasurable, even for a player ... they'll always say they want to play, whatever contract they're on, for whatever club, but it's that intangible that drives them in preseason, drives them when games get tough, the team 4-5 goals down ... no player knows how they'll respond until they're in the situation ...
martin i'm sure would say all the right things, and mean them, but it won't be the dustin martin who ran out for richmond the season of that first premiership, no chance the hunger is the same

 

[caesar88]

Also, not sure I agree with the notion that he's hunger for football is wavering. He took 6 weeks off for mental health reasons, and has still been one of the most important players on-ground in the 3 games he's played. The bloke is still an absolute gun, and if the rumours were true (which I don't believe they are), perhaps the change of scenery would allow him to rediscover his best form.

s**t, plenty of us want Buddy to go around again, and Dusty has 5 years and less injury concerns on him. Burgoyne was a champ well into his 30s and I expect Dusty to be the same, wherever he's playing his footy.

I have absolutely no question Martin would be an astute pick-up for us in terms of what he could bring to the team, even into his 30s. But what, and subsequently, who would he cost us?

 

[SSwans2011]

I have absolutely no question Martin would be an astute pick-up for us in terms of what he could bring to the team, even into his 30s. But what, and subsequently, who would he cost us?

That's sort of my point. This is what the conversation should be. I feel like some of the posts where people are saying they have no interest in him are overselling our list's chance of winning a Premiership. We shouldn't give up a player that has nearly a decade worth of service to give us as a potential A-grader, but even with that in mind I wouldn't be completely ruling out having a crack at him if it does become a reality.

I rate our list too, but Premierships are hard to win, and Dusty's shown he's as important as anyone in the game's history for a team's chance of winning one.

 

[Jewelsbon]

i agree on that, as a player he's always been a complete professional
but the inner hunger is immeasurable, even for a player ... they'll always say they want to play, whatever contract they're on, for whatever club, but it's that intangible that drives them in preseason, drives them when games get tough, the team 4-5 goals down ... no player knows how they'll respond until they're in the situation ...
martin i'm sure would say all the right things, and mean them, but it won't be the dustin martin who ran out for richmond the season of that first premiership, no chance the hunger is the same

Same could and was said about Buddy and no one could say he hasn't given us his all.

Fact is I'm on the fence when it comes to Dusty. He's a brilliant player and I can see him being a game changer for the next four years, but the cost would be great and I don't believe we as a club need the marquee player any more - I think we've got a few we are growing from seedlings. But much like when Buddy approached us, if a player named Dustin Martin rang up Charlie or Tom and said " I want to be a Swan", how do you say no?

 

[caesar88]

That's sort of my point. This is what the conversation should be. I feel like some of the posts where people are saying they have no interest in him are overselling our list's chance of winning a Premiership. We shouldn't give up a player that has nearly a decade worth of service to give us as a potential A-grader, but even with that in mind I wouldn't be completely ruling out having a crack at him if it does become a reality.

I rate our list too, but Premierships are hard to win, and Dusty's shown he's as important as anyone in the game's history for a team's chance of winning one.

Yes and no. He is important to a team's chances of winning a flag, but there has to be a team around him. I reckon you need at least 25 decent AFL-standard players on your list to seriously contend for a flag, not to mention a heap of other stars on every line. Martin's recruitment would undeniably cost us 2 or 3 of those players. You're then replacing them at the draft with kids who take the profile of the team and list back another step.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Same could and was said about Buddy and no one could say he hasn't given us his all.

Fact is I'm on the fence when it comes to Dusty. He's a brilliant player and I can see him being a game changer for the next four years, but the cost would be great and I don't believe we as a club need the marquee player any more - I think we've got a few we are growing from seedlings. But much like when Buddy approached us, if a player named Dustin Martin rang up Charlie or Tom and said " I want to be a Swan", how do you say no?

well ... there's the cost ... that's where it surely is an easy matter of yes or no

not arguing about martin as a player, or the franklin effect
and you're spot-on about us not needing a marquee player, we have heeney and we're growing a few more
anyway, what really is a marquee player these days?
i'd be happy watching a swans team full of callum millses or mccartin brothers ... or, c'mon! warner, gulden, mcinerney, blakey ...

 

[SSwans2011]

Yes and no. He is important to a team's chances of winning a flag, but there has to be a team around him. I reckon you need at least 25 decent AFL-standard players on your list to seriously contend for a flag, not to mention a heap of other stars on every line. Martin's recruitment would undeniably cost us 2 or 3 of those players. You're then replacing them at the draft with kids who take the profile of the team and list back another step.

You need roleplayers but you also need legitimate A-graders. Every team is comfortably behind Melbourne, and arguably also Brisbane, in that department.

Jason Castagna is 3-time Premiership player by virtue of being on the same list as Dusty. And he's not the only Tiger Premiership player that wasn't up to it if you read their board through their period of dominance.

 

[BloodySwan]

Yes and no. He is important to a team's chances of winning a flag, but there has to be a team around him. I reckon you need at least 25 decent AFL-standard players on your list to seriously contend for a flag, not to mention a heap of other stars on every line. Martin's recruitment would undeniably cost us 2 or 3 of those players. You're then replacing them at the draft with kids who take the profile of the team and list back another step.

These are my feelings. I think the list is in a strong spot but we'd be better taking our 2x first round picks to the draft and bringing in the 2 best kids we can. Martin is a gun and an absolute champion but I'd prefer we go back to the draft and build out our list than push for a quick run - aka Geelong style

 

[caesar88]

You need roleplayers but you also need legitimate A-graders. Every team is comfortably behind Melbourne, and arguably also Brisbane, in that department.

Jason Castagna is 3-time Premiership player by virtue of being on the same list as Dusty. And he's not the only Tiger Premiership player that wasn't up to it if you read their board through their period of dominance.

It wouldn't just cost us a role player. It would cost us one of the increasingly-large handful of players we may have who will be commanding top dollar because of their quality. Any team would struggle to fit that many of them in, but when you add in the fact we're in Sydney? Forget about it.

 

[SSwans2011]

It wouldn't just cost us a role player. It would cost us one of the increasingly-large handful of players we may have who will be commanding top dollar because of their quality. Any team would struggle to fit that many of them in, but when you add in the fact we're in Sydney? Forget about it.

Potentially. Maybe we could package Rowbottom with one of our first-round picks for him to keep you happy.

 

[BloodySwan]

You need roleplayers but you also need legitimate A-graders. Every team is comfortably behind Melbourne, and arguably also Brisbane, in that department.

Jason Castagna is 3-time Premiership player by virtue of being on the same list as Dusty. And he's not the only Tiger Premiership player that wasn't up to it if you read their board through their period of dominance.

Would you trade Martin for Hayward and Rowbottom? I'd rather we keep them around than get Martin for 2yrs. This is effectively what we'd be trading away

 

[SSwans2011]

Would you trade Martin for Hayward and Rowbottom? I'd rather we keep them around than get Martin for 2yrs. This is effectively what we'd be trading away

It would depend, but I'd certainly consider it depending on how Dusty finishes this season if I'm being honest. I think we can compete for a flag in the next couple of years, and as much as I'd hate to lose Hayward and Rowbottom, I also think having Dusty and say Sheldrick in the side instead of those two aforementioned players would be an upgrade - particularly come finals time.

I think we'd get more than 2 years out of him, and we'd only need to win one flag to justify it, and he gives us a good shot.

Melbourne's list is still young, and I'm not as bullish as others on our chances of catching up to them in the talent department without making some big moves. Dusty would help close that gap more than anyone else barring a gun key defender. Even once Buddy and Martin moved on, we'd have a bloody good core, and likely have the cash to top-up on the run.

 

[Punts]

Martins finals are unbelievable

Not even the goat buddy goes near him in his flag wins and he also played extremely well

 

[Punts]

I thought of buddy and Martin upfront even if they are not in there prime would be still very potent and the opposition would s**t there dacks

They both have great scoring assists ability also

 

[Millky95]

Martins finals are unbelievable

Not even the goat buddy goes near him in his flag wins and he also played extremely well

Singlehandly won the 2020 flag for the Tigers imo. The other games there were a few others that could have won the Norm Smith but Martin's third quarter against the Cats was the difference

 

[Punts]

It a deal can come about with our first and doesn’t hurt the salary cap going into the future to much I can’t see how Sydney will say no

He wants to come amd we don’t get that as much as we used

 

[Punts]

Singlehandly won the 2020 flag for the Tigers imo. The other games there were a few others that could have won the Norm Smith but Martin's third quarter against the Cats was the difference

Unbelievable game