Game Day 2022 election - Could we have a Nahas parliament?.

[gokangas]

The end result might be the same but the way the votes are tallied means that those parties get funding and their ideas and policies have more cred and their is pressure on the people elected to recognise them and make allowance for them.

Sure parties can ignore them but they might get voted out next time if they do cos they relied on those preferences to get elected.

True. But most parties think of the current election and not too much about the next yet.

 

[gokangas]

They are just independents. Saying “fake” is buying what the LNP tried to sell and pretty much everyone was smart enough to see through. And the electorate is getting younger and more progressive so whatever you don’t like about the greens and independents, you’d better get used to. Labor didn’t create that force, or play the game with it, it tried its best to shout over it (falsely saying that voters would be stuck with the now ex government if they voted for anyone but Labor). I’m relieved they are smart enough to respect it, unlike the LNP. And Albanese’s history of successful negotiations during the Gillard government wouldn’t hurt.

Most independents are Labor in the end. Call them fake or whatever you like but most of them would never have voted anything other than Labor if they make parliament. Hopefully he can do better than the Gillard times. He has his own numbers so let him rule.

 

[Mcarcherey]

Most independents are Labor in the end. Call them fake or whatever you like but most of them would never have voted anything other than Labor if they make parliament. Hopefully he can do better than the Gillard times. He has his own numbers so let him rule.

most LNP are labor too, they're both bought and paid for by the same owners.

 

[Massive Unit]

It looks like Albo will have the keys to the cookie jar with a majority parliament, which I am perfectly happy with. This means that there should be very little impediment to the Labor Party instituting the changes that they campaigned for. I understand the need for independents, but it also means that trying to get anything done becomes significantly more difficult (and takes longer).
No excuses now. He's just got to get on with it and deliver against the promises that have been made.

 

[gokangas]

It looks like Albo will have the keys to the cookie jar with a majority parliament, which I am perfectly happy with. This means that there should be very little impediment to the Labor Party instituting the changes that they campaigned for. I understand the need for independents, but it also means that trying to get anything done becomes significantly more difficult (and takes longer).
No excuses now. He's just got to get on with it and deliver against the promises that have been made.

Gillard in particular was hamstrung that way so at least Albo has no excuses - other than the usual when a new government is formed - the finances are worse than they were led to believe............

 

[koshari]

I understand we had a decent result last time but if you look at US politics and others around the world, not having a mandate often leads to both watered down and weird deals attached to the legislation. Politics has moved in this way more in recent years.

Even the return to decency style rhetoric of the weekend has been replicated with Obama and Biden and in the end there has been a struggle to get much done.

on the other hand look at Germany, they have 5 major parites that have to do deals every election to form a government, some times with 3 of them forming a majority. this has happened for well over 20 years and they pass good policy.

 

[big_e]

Teal independents are where the Liberal Party should be. Unfortunately, some Liberals got carried away with attacking asylum seekers in the late 90s because winning was more important than being a decent human being. That then let to a lot of the more reasonable party members and supporters leaving, and the crazy right-wingers came in to fill the void.

Because the party was still in government - we're into the early 2000s now - those addicted to power could see the happy clapper belt as a key area to stack branches for their own ends. And then the Hillsongers themselves started to get involved as state council members and then candidates. And they got more and more into the Sky News / Andrew Bolt stuff, and now think that sloganeering and ad hominem attacks are where it's at.

The party would be vastly better off if they moved back towards the centre and left all the QAnon crazies to the Pauline and Clive.

 

[koshari]

Gillard in particular was hamstrung that way so at least Albo has no excuses - other than the usual when a new government is formed - the finances are worse than they were led to believe............

gillard want really hamstrung from an outcome perspective, all the good legislation such as NDIS got through, just took more work, she was really in the end a victim of internal rudds revenge and external abbot attack dog tacticks.

 

[Tas]

It looks like Albo will have the keys to the cookie jar with a majority parliament, which I am perfectly happy with. This means that there should be very little impediment to the Labor Party instituting the changes that they campaigned for. I understand the need for independents, but it also means that trying to get anything done becomes significantly more difficult (and takes longer).
No excuses now. He's just got to get on with it and deliver against the promises that have been made.

Not everyone votes with the party line on every issue, there are different factions within every major party, like there is a left/right/centre groups in the LP, they are on the same page on a lot of issues, not all of them. It is why you want a good relationship with minor parties and independents. If you can get Greens and Teal Indies to support say climate issues, you wont have to compromise as much with the right faction to get legislation through.

It makes a huge difference.

 

[Massive Unit]

Not everyone votes with the party line on every issue, there are different factions within every major party, like there is a left/right/centre groups in the LP, they are on the same page on a lot of issues, not all of them. It is why you want a good relationship with minor parties and independents. If you can get Greens and Teal Indies to support say climate issues, you wont have to compromise as much with the right faction to get legislation through.

It makes a huge difference.

Fair call, but I still think it would be appropriate to say that Albo will have more of a run at it than if he had to go grovelling for crossbench votes.

 

[shintemaster]

Not everyone votes with the party line on every issue, there are different factions within every major party, like there is a left/right/centre groups in the LP, they are on the same page on a lot of issues, not all of them. It is why you want a good relationship with minor parties and independents. If you can get Greens and Teal Indies to support say climate issues, you wont have to compromise as much with the right faction to get legislation through.

It makes a huge difference.

A smart leader will use the Green vote, climate / integrity backed independents as a tool to push their own more conservative elements. Basically allowing themselves to be "forced" a little more to the table on these issues as the electorate has spoken and they need Senate (and maybe house) approval.

Fair call, but I still think it would be appropriate to say that Albo will have more of a run at it than if he had to go grovelling for crossbench votes.

Maybe, or he can use them as the bad guys to push his own party hard. I think people are underestimating this PM slightly - everything I've heard indicates he listens and is a very shrewd operator when it comes to getting consensus across multiple parties.

 

[DesertRoo]

Things you can say about Dutton now without the fear of your nudes being leaked.

 

[Liam Boy]

Teal independents are where the Liberal Party should be. Unfortunately, some Liberals got carried away with attacking asylum seekers in the late 90s because winning was more important than being a decent human being. That then let to a lot of the more reasonable party members and supporters leaving, and the crazy right-wingers came in to fill the void.

Because the party was still in government - we're into the early 2000s now - those addicted to power could see the happy clapper belt as a key area to stack branches for their own ends. And then the Hillsongers themselves started to get involved as state council members and then candidates. And they got more and more into the Sky News / Andrew Bolt stuff, and now think that sloganeering and ad hominem attacks are where it's at.

The party would be vastly better off if they moved back towards the centre and left all the QAnon crazies to the Pauline and Clive.

the teals wouldn't work as an entire national party. their message only works in a very specific kind of electorate: wealthy suburban areas full of people who definitely believe in climate change, but are fundamentally conservative in all their other beliefs. People who will never support a genuine left-wing political project because they grew up under the red scare and they're afraid of having to pay more taxes. Other kinds of suburban electorates will break for Labor or the Liberals depending on their age/class makeup, and inner-city electorates will keep going towards the Greens, because that's where the young people are who have * all economic opportunity and just want a future that doesn't see them drowning in boiling water.

It's an incoherent ideology. We want action on climate change, but we love the forces that cause climate change. We need to protect the environment, but we still want massive suburban houses and 4 wheel drives to take us absolutely everywhere.

 

[shintemaster]

the teals wouldn't work as an entire national party. their message only works in a very specific kind of electorate: wealthy suburban areas full of people who definitely believe in climate change, but are fundamentally conservative in all their other beliefs. People who will never support a genuine left-wing political project because they grew up under the red scare and they're afraid of having to pay more taxes. Other kinds of suburban electorates will break for Labor or the Liberals depending on their age/class makeup, and inner-city electorates will keep going towards the Greens, because that's where the young people are who have duck all economic opportunity and just want a future that doesn't see them drowning in boiling water.

It's an incoherent ideology. We want action on climate change, but we love the forces that cause climate change. We need to protect the environment, but we still want massive suburban houses and 4 wheel drives to take us absolutely everywhere.

Fair bit of truth in this. I was talking to my wife on the weekend about the irony that these seats would struggle to go to a Greens candidate or Labor and yet they will swing towards an independent basically cherry picking their policy / ethos (Climate Change action and Integrity for the most part). Kind of funny, but whatever it takes at this point.

Not all the same obviously, they aren't a party when all comes down to it. Monique Ryan for example I could easily see as a Green candidate if things had gone differently. In the end it doesn't matter, more rational and progressive indpendents are more than welcome at the table over more extremists.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Things you can say about Dutton now without the fear of your nudes being leaked.

This is a serious question: What is going on with Mr Dutton's boat(s)? Where are they and what threat did they pose to the security of this country. It was critical for thousands of people to receive SMS messages on Saturday. It matters now too.

 

[Liam Boy]

Fair bit of truth in this. I was talking to my wife on the weekend about the irony that these seats would struggle to go to a Greens candidate or Labor and yet they will swing towards an independent basically cherry picking their policy / ethos (Climate Change action and Integrity for the most part). Kind of funny, but whatever it takes at this point.

Not all the same obviously, they aren't a party when all comes down to it. Monique Ryan for example I could easily see as a Green candidate if things had gone differently. In the end it doesn't matter, more rational and progressive indpendents are more than welcome at the table over more extremists.

Maybe in the past, but the Greens are moving left as young people move left, especially under Adam Bandt's leadership. Typical "Tree Tory" candidates aren't going to cut it anymore, that's not where the energy is. You can see it with the Green's pact with Vic Socialists, 1 and 2 on each other's preferences. Real, explicitly stated democratic socialists see guys like Bandt as their political allies, and the Greens either see the same or want to prop up VS as a force that can drag their elected members left.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Maybe in the past, but the Greens are moving left as young people move left, especially under Adam Bandt's leadership. Typical "Tree Tory" candidates aren't going to cut it anymore, that's not where the energy is. You can see it with the Green's pact with Vic Socialists, 1 and 2 on each other's preferences. Real, explicitly stated democratic socialists see guys like Bandt as their political allies, and the Greens either see the same or want to prop up VS as a force that can drag their elected members left.

I had some drinks with "Footscray's Finest" (of Twitter) a few years back when Bracksy was in and a few state labour MPs joined him for a few beers - he was a labour party apparatchik at the time. When he introduced me and of course, party politics were mentioned I told them that they weren't left enough for me so I vote greens. There were three of them and all agreed that they had to stick with the party line otherwise they'd be flying the flag comrade.

Anyway, I was bullshitting - I couldn't tell if they were but I doubt it. Anyway, we all agreed on Kennet so no harm done.

 

[jimandphilbadge]

one nation and uap had liberal last....

Interesting, was that just your seat?

No idea about ON, but in my electorate UAP had Green last, Labor 2nd last, Libs 3rd.last. I live in one of the safest Labor seats in Vic so it wouldn't have made much difference who they preferenced, just interested to know if they changed it around depending on the seat or area.

 

[Liam Boy]

We're lucky to live in a country with preferential voting, so it's possible to make that choice without being a spoiler.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Things you can say about Dutton now without the fear of your nudes being leaked.

Absolutely beautiful burial. I wish more leaders spoke like this. No holding back on these cretins.

 

[Makeshift Park]

the teals wouldn't work as an entire national party. their message only works in a very specific kind of electorate: wealthy suburban areas full of people who definitely believe in climate change, but are fundamentally conservative in all their other beliefs. People who will never support a genuine left-wing political project because they grew up under the red scare and they're afraid of having to pay more taxes. Other kinds of suburban electorates will break for Labor or the Liberals depending on their age/class makeup, and inner-city electorates will keep going towards the Greens, because that's where the young people are who have duck all economic opportunity and just want a future that doesn't see them drowning in boiling water.

It's an incoherent ideology. We want action on climate change, but we love the forces that cause climate change. We need to protect the environment, but we still want massive suburban houses and 4 wheel drives to take us absolutely everywhere.

Interesting take. I'll confess I'm not across all the policies of the newly elected indies, but by and large they seem to have been pretty targeted in their messaging (big emphasis on climate + integrity) and relatively vague on most other things (economic policy, IR reform, tax reform). Their constituencies are almost universally wealthy, and with relatively small historic bases of union support. Is that what you mean by "people who will never support a genuine left wing political project"? Because the same inner city wealthy constituencies are also relatively progressive when it comes to refugee policy, and LGBT issues. It'll be super interesting to see how united the Teals are when Chalmers hands down a Labor budget.

 

[ArchKing Carey]

Absolutely beautiful burial. I wish more leaders spoke like this. No holding back on these cretins.

McGowan is a straight shooter. He calls a spade a spade. And then uses it to whack cretins like Mr Potato with it.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Absolutely beautiful burial. I wish more leaders spoke like this. No holding back on these cretins.

His take on the Canberra press pack is worth a squiz too.

 

[Tas]

Fair call, but I still think it would be appropriate to say that Albo will have more of a run at it than if he had to go grovelling for crossbench votes.

Definitely. Sadly, sometimes it doesn't come down to an issue, sometimes it is just politics, like someone holding out for a kickback or a benefit solely for their electorate at the expense of the greater issue.

But you are right, he has a much greater capacity to push through what he wants to.

 

[Liam Boy]

Interesting take. I'll confess I'm not across all the policies of the newly elected indies, but by and large they seem to have been pretty targeted in their messaging (big emphasis on climate + integrity) and relatively vague on most other things (economic policy, IR reform, tax reform). Their constituencies are almost universally wealthy, and with relatively small historic bases of union support. Is that what you mean by "people who will never support a genuine left wing political project"? Because the same inner city wealthy constituencies are also relatively progressive when it comes to refugee policy, and LGBT issues. It'll be super interesting to see how united the Teals are when Chalmers hands down a Labor budget.

When I say left-wing political project, I'm talking about radical labour movements like we had in the early 20th century, or the ones we've been seeing in Latin America for the past few decades. Real steps towards economic equality that take power away from capitalist forces. You're never going to get wealthy homeowners on board with that, they're too happy with things as they are. They will gladly keep voting for "responsible economic management" that means ******* less fortunate people over forever because they're out of sight, out of mind.